In this episode of The School of Greatness, Vanessa Van Edwards and Lewis Howes examine how technology and AI are contributing to widespread loneliness despite constant digital connectivity. Van Edwards explains that AI-driven and asynchronous communication lack the essential elements of real human connection—such as eye contact, immediate feedback, and mutual understanding—which are necessary for producing oxytocin and building genuine relationships. As people increasingly rely on AI for communication tasks, authentic conversation skills are declining.
Van Edwards also presents a framework for building meaningful connections through three progressive levels: exchanging basic facts, exploring motivations and values, and understanding personal narratives. She offers practical techniques for breaking autopilot conversations, distinguishing between "dream builders" and "dream killers," and developing charisma through authentic signaling of warmth and competence. The episode provides strategies for navigating vulnerability appropriately and adapting communication styles to create psychological safety in various settings.

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Vanessa Van Edwards identifies three progressive levels of human connection that deepen relationships when navigated mindfully and authentically.
Connection begins with exchanging basic facts—jobs, hometowns, family status. Van Edwards explains that the brain processes social information hierarchically, requiring this foundational context before deeper engagement is possible. However, master conversationalists like Howard Stern avoid autopilot questions such as "what do you do?" Instead, they ask story-based questions like "What's been good for you lately?" These unexpected inquiries create information gaps that engage listeners and invite richer exchanges.
Once basic facts are established, connection deepens by exploring what drives a person—their dreams, concerns, and aspirations. Van Edwards describes "dream builders" as those who ask curiosity-driven questions like "Tell me more" or "How can I support you?" In contrast, "dream killers" undermine connection by citing obstacles or fact-checking instead of listening. Playful interactions, such as sharing embarrassing stories or guessing games, foster safe vulnerability. Level two conversations signal care and support growth, forming the foundation for meaningful friendships and work relationships.
The deepest level explores how individuals interpret their own life stories and define themselves. Van Edwards emphasizes that self-narrative—whether we see ourselves as lucky or unlucky—becomes self-creating, shaping our perception of experiences. This understanding often requires input from trusted relationships. However, level three connections should be reserved for only two or three intimate relationships, as rushing to this level in casual settings can create "vulnerability hangovers." Questions like "What would the title of your memoir be?" can gently unearth these narratives, but only with trust and permission.
Van Edwards and Lewis Howes explore techniques that transform routine exchanges into moments of genuine connection while respecting boundaries.
Van Edwards identifies "Been busy?" and "What do you do?" as the worst conversation starters, pushing people toward negativity or flipping their brains into autopilot. Instead, she recommends questions that invite storytelling, such as "What are you most excited about right now?" The three magic words—"Tell me more"—keep conversations open and deepen connection. Answering standard questions with surprising responses can also jolt conversations out of monotony.
Dream builders fuel aspirations by asking open-ended questions and showing curiosity, while dream killers inadvertently drain enthusiasm by correcting details or offering unsolicited advice. Van Edwards stresses the importance of "gut check, not fact check," encouraging people to pause and consider whether encouragement is needed rather than reality testing. She asks, "Does this belief serve or suppress your dreams?" Timing and sensitivity in delivering feedback often matter more than strict accuracy.
Van Edwards identifies entertainers, who love sharing stories, and appreciators, who prefer listening. The best communicators flex between both roles as situations require. She encourages creating team norms, like opening meetings with "Tell me something good," to build psychological safety and help introverts participate comfortably. At the same time, recognizing when connection or speedy execution is most appropriate is part of effective communication.
Vulnerability deepens connection, but without trust, it can result in "vulnerability hangovers"—regret when disclosures are met with dismissal or judgment. Van Edwards recommends "cornerstone conversations" with important people, using structured questions that help gauge readiness for deeper dialogue. Not everyone is prepared for deep sharing, and recognizing these signals protects autonomy while still inviting genuine connection when the context is right.
Despite unprecedented access to technology, Howes and Van Edwards discuss how the epidemic of loneliness continues to expand as technology erodes deeper connection.
Van Edwards points out that one in six people worldwide are affected by loneliness, despite being surrounded by people. Many now learn about friends through social platforms rather than direct conversations, leading to disconnection. She emphasizes that loneliness is not permanent but fixable through genuine, synchronous conversations where individuals feel heard and understood.
For the first time, more conversations are happening with technology, including AI, than ever before. Van Edwards notes that AI conversations are transactional, focused on commands rather than mutual understanding, which can rewire our brains and affect how we connect with people. Asynchronous methods like voice notes lack essential elements like eye contact and instant feedback, meaning they cannot replicate the sense of being truly heard. Because AI lacks social empathy, it cannot provide the understanding and love that real connection requires.
Van Edwards explains that synchronous conversations catalyze [restricted term] production, the "love and connection" chemical that fosters belonging and enhances social cognition. Real-time conversation helps people become better at reading faces, detecting voice nuances, and understanding social signals.
As reliance on AI grows, authentic communication skills are declining. Van Edwards predicts the current generation might be the last to learn interpersonal skills directly through unscripted conversation. Many now turn to AI for help with apologies and personal notes, which hinders confidence and ability to handle challenging dialogues. The avoidance of friction through AI removes essential experiences like vulnerability and boundary setting, vital for personal growth and genuine confidence.
Charisma is a developable skill that blends warmth and competence to foster trust and reliability.
Van Edwards explains that charisma answers two universal questions: "Can I trust you?" and "Can I rely on you?" Warmth signals openness and trustworthiness, while competence signals effectiveness and capability. Many people possess these qualities but fail to signal them clearly, causing them to be overlooked despite their genuine abilities. Van Edwards notes that entrepreneurs with excellent ideas often lack self-belief when pitching, undermining their opportunities by under-communicating their value.
Charisma relies on four channels: verbal (words), nonverbal (body language), vocal (tone, pace, volume), and ornamental (clothing, background objects). Each channel sends distinct signals. For instance, credentials signal competence while family photos convey warmth. Specific cues like the "steeple" gesture or "lower lid flex" may feel natural for some and forced for others. Charisma is not formulaic but a personal recipe derived from authentic strengths—Oprah and Steve Jobs both project charisma through different blends unique to their personalities.
True charisma is about having the courage to authentically signal the strengths you already possess, not faking qualities. Van Edwards stresses that confidence stems from the willingness to be visible and vulnerable, not from perfection. Developing charisma requires self-awareness, intentional signaling, and the courage to put oneself forward, making every interaction count by fostering real connection, trust, and clarity.
1-Page Summary
Vanessa Van Edwards identifies three progressive levels of human connection, each deepening the potential for meaningful relationships. Moving through these levels mindfully offers practical strategies for forging authentic bonds while maintaining emotional safety.
At the first level, connection centers on exchanging basic facts—job titles, hometowns, family status. According to Van Edwards, humans must begin here due to the brain’s social processing hierarchy. Before we can credibly discuss someone’s values or self-narrative, we need these general traits in place. However, she emphasizes that simple data points don’t create memorable interactions. Master conversationalists, like Howard Stern, avoid scripted questions such as "what do you do?" or "where are you from?" because they invite autopilot responses and stifle engagement. Instead, they break conversational scripts by inviting stories and sharing unique or unexpected facts, e.g., "What’s been good for you lately?" or, "What are you grateful for?" These story-based inquiries hook the listener, provide easy conversational follow-ups, and encourage richer exchanges.
Van Edwards explains that the social brain processes connection hierarchically: building comfort through surface-level information is necessary before moving deeper. Extroverts and enthusiastic connectors may be tempted to skip this stage, but the brain can’t engage with motivations or values before it has a grasp of basic context. When done skillfully, level one conversation avoids the dead-ends of fact-hunting and instead teases out context through narrative, not interrogation.
Inserting unexpected questions—such as "What’s the weirdest thing that happened to you this week?"—creates information gaps. The human brain is wired to resolve these gaps, prompting people to listen more intently. This technique, famously used by Howard Stern, turns simple exchanges into memorable stories that pull listeners in and prevent conversations from stagnating.
Once a foundation of facts is in place, true connection deepens by exploring what drives and concerns a person: their dreams, aspirations, what keeps them up at night, even their health or professional objectives. Level two is characterized by mutual curiosity and playfulness.
Van Edwards describes "dream builders" as those who ask additive, curiosity-driven questions that help others expand on their goals and ideas: "Tell me more," or "How can I support you?" In contrast, "dream killers" unintentionally undermine dreams by citing obstacles, fact-checking, or bringing up past failures and competition. Intelligent, well-meaning individuals can fall into the dream-killing trap by offering unsolicited analysis rather than listening.
Playfulness—such as guessing games about colleagues' backgrounds or prompts for sharing embarrassing stories—helps establish a safe environment for moderate vulnerability. For example, new team members might be asked to share their most embarrassing story on a team call, setting the tone for acceptance and relatability.
In more nuanced level two interactions, the conversation can explore dreams and personal concerns: "What are you working on?" "What are your goals this year?" "How can I help?" In difficult times, asking "What’s something good?" or giving permission to share struggles allows for honest engagement. Level two connections serve as a foundation for deep friendships and productive work relationships by signaling care and willingness to support growth.
At the third and final level, connections reach the core of personal identity. Here, conversations delve into self-narrative—how individuals interpret their own life stories and define themselves.
The story we tell ourselves about who we are—whether we see ourselves as lucky, resilient, or perpetually unluck ...
Three Levels of Connection: Building Relationships Through Progression
Effective, authentic engagement in conversation begins with breaking out of autopilot and routine social scripts. Vanessa Van Edwards and Lewis Howes explore techniques and frameworks that transform mundane exchanges into moments of connection, dream building, and genuine sharing, while highlighting the nuance required to both connect deeply and protect our own vulnerability.
Vanessa Van Edwards identifies the most common conversational traps as questions like “Been busy?” and “What do you do?”, labeling them the single worst questions to ask, especially upon first meeting someone. The question “been busy” pushes people to focus on negativity, reminding them of stress and overwhelm; if someone isn’t busy, they worry about appearing unsuccessful. Similarly, “what do you do?” is so scripted that it flips the brain into autopilot, shutting down the possibility for true connection or unique engagement.
Instead, Van Edwards and Howes recommend setting yourself up for success with questions that invite storytelling, such as, “What are you most excited about right now?” or “What are you most grateful for today?” These bypass small talk and gently invite more authentic responses. Central to these exchanges are the three magic words: “Tell me more.” This simple phrase keeps the conversation open, turns it back to the speaker, and deepens connection—allowing even surface-level questions to blossom if used properly.
Van Edwards also suggests that answering boring or standard questions with surprising or humorous responses can jolt a conversation out of monotony. For example, if asked, “How are you?” replying, “I’m just surviving, drinking coffee today,” or sharing a quick personal story, can make the interaction lively and memorable.
Van Edwards draws a clear distinction between dream builders and dream killers in conversation. Dream builders fuel aspirations without judgment, asking open-ended questions, showing curiosity, and adding positively to someone’s momentum. Their approach centers on being additive—stoking fire rather than dousing it.
Conversely, dream killers poke holes by correcting details, highlighting obstacles, or offering unsolicited advice. Even well-intentioned feedback—such as immediately fact-checking or solving problems—can inadvertently drain enthusiasm. Van Edwards stresses the importance of “gut check, not fact check,” reminding listeners to pause and consider whether it’s the right time to offer reality or whether encouragement is what’s needed most. She articulates a key question for both self and others: “Does this belief serve or suppress your dreams?” Timing and sensitivity in delivering feedback—gauging another’s readiness—often matters more than providing strictly accurate information.
Authentic engagement also depends on adapting to different conversational styles. Van Edwards identifies two types: entertainers, who love sharing stories and driving the talk, and appreciators, who prefer listening and asking questions. Trouble arises when two appreciators meet and neither takes the conversational lead, but the best communicators flex between both roles as the situation requires.
She notes that preparation is useful—especially for answering common or “boring” questions—by being ready with answers that are clear, informative, and engaging for both entertainers and appreciators. For example, when answering “what do you do?”, Van Edwards suggests framing it with a label, for whom you do it, and why, thus providing a structured but lively reply that invites follow-up.
Van Edwards also encourages creating team norms, such as “Tell me something good,” to open meetings. This allows introverts to share comfortably, helps managers gather quick updates, and builds psychological safety by encouraging openness and inclusion. Such norms help everyone know when and how to participate, making it easier for quieter team memb ...
Conversation Skills: Mastering Authentic Engagement
Lewis Howes and Vanessa Van Edwards discuss how, despite unprecedented access to technology and social platforms, the epidemic of loneliness continues to expand. Technology's increasing presence has changed the way we communicate, often eroding the deeper connection that real conversation provides.
Vanessa Van Edwards points out that one in six people worldwide are currently affected by loneliness, and this number is rising rather than diminishing. Despite being surrounded by friends, family, or crowds, many individuals report feeling disconnected and misunderstood. Howes and Van Edwards agree that it’s possible to be lonely in a crowded place or even within close social circles—loneliness is not about physical isolation but about the absence of meaningful connection.
They highlight that many people now learn personal updates about friends or connections through social platforms like LinkedIn or Instagram, rather than through direct, authentic conversations. This shift leads to a growing sense of disconnection, as digital updates cannot substitute for feeling genuinely understood and chosen in real conversations.
Van Edwards emphasizes that loneliness is not a permanent condition but a fixable state. She stresses the need for relearning how to engage in genuine, synchronous conversations to counteract this epidemic. Through real-time conversations, individuals can feel heard, validated, and loved, which directly counters the isolating effects of modern digital life.
Van Edwards notes a historic shift: for the first time, more conversations are taking place with technology, including AI, than ever before. Conversations with AI are fundamentally different, focused on commands and directives rather than mutual understanding and reciprocity. This shift rewires our brains for a more assertive, transactional tone, which can inadvertently bleed into human interactions, affecting how we connect with colleagues, friends, and partners.
She illustrates the difference by recalling moments when her husband, after talking to AI, continued using a command-based tone with her, demonstrating how communication muscles exercised with AI require conscious switching back to connective, human tones.
Many people now communicate via voice notes and other asynchronous methods, sending lengthy audio messages that feel conversational but lack essential human elements like eye contact, instant feedback, vocal affirmations, or the ability to challenge and deepen discussions in real time. These missing cues mean that such exchanges cannot replicate the sense of being truly heard and seen.
Because AI lacks social empathy, it cannot understand, choose, or love us as humans do. This lack underscores why many continue to feel lonely in the age of constant technological "connection." Real connection is found in mutual understanding, feeling chosen, and loved—none of which AI or asynchronous communication provide.
Van Edwards explains that synchronous, real-time conversations—either in person, on the phone, or over video—catalyze the production of [restricted term], the "love and connection" chemical in the body. This neurochemical response fosters belonging and is produced when someone feels heard and understood, like when a friend earnestly listens and supports us in a moment of vulnerability.
[restricted term] does more than make us feel good; research shows it enhances social cognition. Through real-time conversation, people become better at reading faces, detecting voice nuances, sensing truthfulness, and understanding social signals, ultimately boosting both social skills and self-confidence.
[restricted term], a pleasure and motivation chemical, is al ...
Loneliness Epidemic: Technology's Impact on Human Connection
Charisma is not simply an innate trait but a skill that can be developed purposefully, blending warmth and competence to foster trust and reliability in every interaction.
According to Vanessa Van Edwards, charisma blends two distinct but complementary qualities: warmth and competence. Warmth involves openness, trustworthiness, and good intentions, while competence signals effectiveness, productivity, and capability. Charismatic individuals project both qualities, effectively answering two universal questions everyone subconsciously asks: “Can I trust you?” and “Can I rely on you?” When these questions are met with confidence through overt cues, people respond positively, granting likability, connection, and buy-in.
Many people possess genuine warmth and competence but fail to signal them clearly. Van Edwards identifies this as a core reason why skilled individuals are often overlooked by colleagues, investors, and partners. She observes that highly competent and warm people can undervalue themselves, falling into “the danger zone” of being underestimated simply because they don’t project what they possess. Entrepreneurs or artists with excellent ideas often lack self-belief when pitching, which leads them to signal incompetence or reticence. Despite their readiness and expertise, their opportunities slip away because they hesitate to put themselves out there, fearing criticism or judgment. Van Edwards notes parallels between starving artists and innovative entrepreneurs who know their craft or idea intimately yet miss out on advancement by under-communicating both their warmth and competence, especially in high-stakes situations like networking or pitching to investors.
This inability or reluctance to signal one's value undermines both personal and professional progress. As seen on platforms like Shark Tank, the entrepreneurs who secure investment are not always those with the best ideas, but those who confidently believe in—and clearly signal—their own warmth and competence. Ultimately, the difference between charismatic and non-charismatic people is not necessarily the possession of these qualities, but rather the willingness and courage to communicate them.
Charisma relies on four channels to communicate warmth and competence: verbal (the words used), nonverbal (body language, facial expressions, gestures), vocal (pace, volume, tone), and ornamental (clothing, colors, background objects). Each channel can send distinct signals. For instance, credentials displayed in a background might signal competence, while family photos convey warmth. Similarly, how someone carries themselves or the gestures they select—like the “steeple” gesture of touching fingertips together—signal competence, while a relaxed posture or genuine smile may signal warmth. Vocal cues include using a lower voice register or rising and falling intonation, which can shift perceptions of authority and reliability.
Charisma is not formulaic but a personal recipe derived from authentic strengths and context. Everyone can refine their own “charisma flavor.” For instance, Oprah and Steve Jobs both ...
Charisma: Signaling Warmth and Competence Through Communication
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