In this episode of The Mel Robbins Podcast, bestselling author John Grisham and Mel Robbins explore how seemingly random moments can redirect the course of a life. Grisham shares personal experiences that shaped both his legal career and his path to becoming a writer, discussing how recognizing and acting on these "golden moments" led to his success. The conversation covers his transition from lawyer to novelist, including the rejection he faced and the persistence required to eventually publish his first books.
Grisham and Robbins discuss practical strategies for achieving long-term goals, particularly his "one page a day" approach to writing that allowed him to complete novels while maintaining a legal practice. The episode also addresses how Grisham uses his platform to advocate for criminal justice reform and wrongful conviction cases, demonstrating how commercial success can be channeled toward social impact. Throughout, both emphasize the importance of consistent daily practice, learning from setbacks, and focusing on what's within one's control.

Sign up for Shortform to access the whole episode summary along with additional materials like counterarguments and context.
John Grisham and Mel Robbins discuss pivotal experiences—what Grisham calls "golden moments"—that unexpectedly redirect life's trajectory, emphasizing the profound impact of recognizing, trusting, and acting on such events.
Grisham describes golden moments as transformative flashes where one's path changes forever. At age 30, while aspiring to become a prominent courtroom lawyer, he spent significant time in his local courthouse volunteering for criminal cases. This dedication exposed him to both justice and injustice, deeply shaping his values and creative vision. Robbins observes that Grisham's drive for justice—from rooting for a Vietnam veteran challenging a professor to witnessing a child testify in a rape trial—formed the bedrock of his emotional intensity and principled storytelling, directly inspiring "A Time to Kill."
While in law school in the early 1980s, Grisham heard a friend describe a large law firm as feeling "mafia-like"—a place you could never leave. The comment stuck with him for years. After finishing his first novel, with encouragement from his wife Renee, he began work on "The Firm." The resulting book sparked a bidding war for film rights, culminating in a $600,000 sale—more money than Grisham had made in ten years practicing law. For Robbins, reading "The Firm" during her unhappy first year of law school catalyzed her decision to leave the field.
Robbins and Grisham discuss how pivotal events often appear random, with their significance becoming clear only in hindsight. Grisham doesn't believe in predetermined cosmic signs, but he does possess an instinct for recognizing compelling stories—an aptitude developed from a childhood surrounded by storytellers. Story ideas accumulate in his journals; while many fade, the best persist and shape his career.
Grisham emphasizes that being present where meaningful activity occurs—such as the courtroom in his early law years—positions one to encounter inspiration and learn from the best. Both Robbins and Grisham highlight the importance of creating space for private passions. Grisham began writing not with the dream of mass publication, but simply for enjoyment. Robbins points out that making time for what brings joy often leads, almost unintentionally, to fulfilling dreams and unexpected opportunity. Grisham still views writing as therapy and encourages others to do what they love for its own sake, trusting the process to eventually connect the dots in unpredictable ways.
Grisham and Robbins discuss the transformative power of daily commitment, showing through Grisham's experience that consistent practice—not grand gestures—leads to substantial, lasting progress toward any goal.
Robbins advocates the "one page a day" strategy as the most reliable way to create momentum and build productive habits. Grisham committed to writing at least a page every day, turning daily action into a ritual. He began as a rookie lawyer, rising at five o'clock every morning to devote time to his book before the day's demands started. He found that missing days broke narrative flow and emotional connection, whereas even minimal daily progress brought peace of mind. Robbins and Grisham agree that consistent, small action matters more than sudden bursts of output.
Grisham managed to write two books—"A Time to Kill" and "The Firm"—in five years while sustaining a busy legal career. He demonstrates that major creative progress can co-exist with real-life obligations, as long as a practical, repeatable system is in place. He recommends finding a consistent time, location, and ritual to make daily practice easier to sustain. His success came not from dramatic life changes but from years of persistent, measured effort.
Writing every day, even in small increments, allowed Grisham to internalize critical elements of his craft like pacing, character arcs, and structure. Taking even a week off led to loss of connection with his story, requiring time to recover lost threads or emotional tone. The compounded impact of daily action over years built Grisham's mastery as a writer.
Grisham cautions against waiting for inspiration, emphasizing: "If you're serious about writing anything, stop talking about it…Sit down and write a page every day, at least a page." Robbins adds that dramatic attempts at change often lead to discouragement, while steady, manageable commitment leads to lasting results. Grisham's sacred writing hour at five a.m. was less about any magic of mornings and more about creating protected space before external demands intruded. This philosophy, illustrated by Grisham's decades-long routine resulting in over 50 bestsellers, demonstrates that daily, sustainable practice is the foundation for achieving even the largest ambitions.
Grisham's journey highlights how facing rejection and failure is a universal part of the creative process, serving as a rite of passage and essential learning tool.
After spending a year handwriting "A Time to Kill," Grisham submitted the manuscript to literary agents and publishers. He assembled a list of 10 agents and 10 publishers, sending out 20 submissions at a time, which were met with wave after wave of rejection letters. Robbins notes that Grisham "walked past the 28 rejections" before the book eventually found a publisher. Grisham emphasizes that many highly acclaimed authors faced repeated rejection, and he often tells aspiring writers these stories to underscore that rejection is a near-universal badge of commitment for successful creators, not a reason to stop.
For Grisham, creating was its own reward, regardless of industry validation. He describes refusing to compromise his vision for "The Firm" despite pressure from his agent. For months, nothing happened; then, unexpectedly, the film rights sold for $600,000, validating his persistence. Grisham advocates that creators should build their identity around the act of creating, not around approval or market response.
Grisham credits the security provided by his legal career as critical to his ability to persist through early failures. When "A Time to Kill" flopped, he was able to continue writing because he had the fallback of his law practice, protecting him from financial desperation and giving him confidence to keep writing.
Grisham's setbacks taught him valuable lessons. His editor cut a third of "A Time to Kill," prompting him to reflect on the year's worth of work lost. This experience taught him the importance of knowing the ending before beginning—he now outlines his novels, ensuring he never wastes extensive time on unneeded material. For Grisham, rejection and failure aren't just obstacles; they are the foundation of growth, resilience, and meaningful achievement.
Grisham's approach to both law and writing highlights the power of patterned learning—closely studying admired professionals to understand, replicate, and improve on the techniques that create excellence.
Early in his legal career, Grisham sought out skilled trial lawyers as role models. During his third year of law school, he spent time at the federal courthouse observing the best lawyers performing in front of juries. As he transitions to writing, Grisham reads popular fiction critically, analyzing both strengths and weaknesses. Often, he encounters bestselling books he considers inferior, believing he can surpass their quality. This observation fuels his ambition—he recognizes that if flawed books can find an audience, there is room for him, too.
An encounter with a Waldenbooks executive proves pivotal for Grisham. The executive mentions that "the big guys come out every year"—referring to authors like Stephen King and Michael Crichton. This insight motivates Grisham to emulate that pattern, sparking his determination to release "The Pelican Brief" within a year and igniting his own streak of publishing one book annually for 35 years.
Grisham regularly tells aspiring writers that the publishing industry hungers for new talent every year. Reading debut novels demonstrates that "somebody's going to get published every year." The market constantly seeks fresh perspectives. The question for aspirants isn't whether a spot exists, but rather whether they will do the work necessary for a real shot.
Grisham maintains an honest assessment of his own writing. Reading both subpar and exceptional books, he recognizes some works he'll never match, but he uses this humility productively—not to fall into despair, but to drive continuous growth. By studying patterns and being honest about strengths and weaknesses, anyone can pursue excellence, knowing that even the greats started as students learning their craft.
Grisham's journey as a writer and advocate illustrates the power of commercial success when channeled toward issues of justice and human dignity.
Grisham's bestsellers, particularly "The Innocent Man," have served as catalysts for his advocacy on wrongful convictions. The book was inspired by an obituary about a man from Grisham's region who came within five days of execution before being proven innocent. This shocking realization propelled Grisham to Oklahoma to meet the man's grieving family. This work marked Grisham's entry into the world of wrongful convictions, exposing him to the alarming scale of the problem—thousands of innocent people imprisoned in the U.S. The success of "The Innocent Man" built public awareness for these injustices, shifting Grisham's purpose as a creator toward advocacy and reform.
Faced with overwhelming injustice, both Grisham and Robbins emphasize directing effort toward what one can control. Robbins suggests asking, "What can I do today that really is part of a positive shift?" Grisham echoes this approach: "We hope we're providing hope for someone else. Baby steps, small steps, a little something every day." Through his nonprofit and advocacy work on issues like childhood hunger, homelessness, and wrongful convictions, Grisham shows that incremental actions not only address immediate needs but also create lasting change.
Grisham's enduring anger at injustices indicates his deep care and commitment. He observes that such frustration is a sign of moral strength, contrasting it with numbness, which signals a loss of humanity. Hope, for Grisham, arises when people address problems within their sphere of influence, affirming that individual effort matters.
Grisham's career demonstrates that financial success and moral commitment can coexist. His advocacy and commercial achievements show the value of using one's platform for greater causes. Grisham maintains that his justice work—with its deep meaning and direct impact—sustains his creative energy and prevents burnout in ways that commercial success alone cannot provide.
1-Page Summary
John Grisham and Mel Robbins discuss pivotal experiences—what Grisham calls “golden moments”—that unexpectedly redirect life’s trajectory, emphasizing the profound impact of recognizing, trusting, and acting on such events.
John Grisham describes golden moments as transformative, often unanticipated flashes where one’s path changes forever. He illustrates this concept with personal stories from his career and life.
At age 30, Grisham aspired to become a prominent courtroom lawyer, spending significant time in his local courthouse, volunteering for numerous court-appointed criminal cases and trials. His dedication exposed him to both the pursuit of justice and instances of injustice, deeply shaping his values and the emotional core of his creative works. Mel Robbins observes this thread in Grisham’s life, noting that his drive for justice underlies even the earliest “golden moment”—rooting for the Vietnam veteran challenging a professor, as well as witnessing a child testify in a rape trial, the painful event that fueled the moral clarity in "A Time to Kill." These encounters formed the bedrock of Grisham’s drive and creative vision, directly inspiring his signature blend of emotional intensity and principled storytelling.
While in law school in the early 1980s, Grisham wasn’t interested in traditional law firm careers and planned instead to return to his hometown. One evening, a top-student friend returned from interviewing at a large firm and shared a remark: it felt like a place you could never leave, almost “mafia-like.” The comment stuck with Grisham, though he had no intention of being a novelist at the time. Years later, as he wrote "A Time to Kill," the memory resurfaced. His wife Renee consistently encouraged him to pursue the story, and immediately after finishing his first novel, he began work on "The Firm." The resulting book launched a bidding war for the film rights, culminating in a $600,000 sale—more money than Grisham had made in ten years of practicing law. The surprising success arrived through a single, life-altering phone call. For Mel Robbins, reading "The Firm" during her unhappy first year of law school catalyzed her decision to leave the field, illustrating how even indirect encounters with pivotal moments can profoundly redirect another’s path.
Robbins and Grisham discuss how pivotal events often appear random, with their deeper significance becoming clear only in hindsight. Robbins notes that although life’s next steps may seem uncertain or overwhelming, past experience shows that current challenges are often stepping stones. Grisham agrees that while he does not ascribe to the notion of predetermined cosmic signs, he does possess an instinct for recognizing compelling stories when they arise—an aptitude developed from a childhood surrounded ...
Golden Moments and Life Pivots
John Grisham and Mel Robbins discuss the transformative power of daily commitment, showing through Grisham's experience that consistent practice—not grand gestures—leads to substantial, lasting progress toward any goal.
Mel Robbins advocates the “one page a day” strategy as the most reliable way to create momentum and build productive habits, a principle that goes far beyond writing. According to John Grisham, this lesson quickly became central to his life: “You have to do a little bit every day or it’s not going to get done.” Grisham committed to writing at least a page every day, turning daily action into a ritual and gradually building both his manuscripts and his discipline.
Grisham began his writing career as a rookie lawyer, rising at five o’clock every morning to devote time to his book before the day’s demands started. He describes finding “that time of day, whether it’s during lunch or whether it’s late at night or whenever, but preferably the same time, same spot, same coffee,” emphasizing that the daily rhythm itself fosters progress.
He found that missing days broke narrative flow and emotional connection. Periods of inactivity led to stress and interrupted sleep, whereas even minimal daily progress brought peace of mind. His wife’s inquiries after new chapters reminded him to restart and recommit. With steady practice, writing became easier and more natural.
Robbins and Grisham agree that consistent, small action matters more than sudden bursts of output. Grisham points out that even on slow days, writing a single page moves the work forward. Mel Robbins adds that this steady accumulation of effort is what ultimately leads to transformation and success in any pursuit.
Grisham managed to write two books—A Time to Kill and The Firm—in five years while sustaining a busy legal career. He demonstrates that major creative progress can co-exist with real-life obligations, as long as a practical, repeatable system is in place.
He recommends tailoring routines to individual needs—finding a consistent time, location, and even details like coffee—to make daily practice easier to sustain. This focus on routine makes progress possible, regardless of other responsibilities.
His books took years, not weeks, to finish. Grisham’s success came not from dramatic life changes but from years of persistent, measured effort. Robbins emphasizes that his breakthroughs were the result of these accumulated days of work, not any single, sweeping action.
Writing every day, even in small increments, allowed Grisham to internalize critical elements of his craft like pacing, character arcs, and structure—knowledge that sporadic bursts of inspiration never provided.
Grisham notes that taking even a week off led to loss of connection with his story, requiring time to recover lost threads or emotional tone. Daily work kept his narrative alive and his skills honed.
The compounded impact of daily actio ...
The Philosophy of Consistent Daily Practice
John Grisham’s journey as an author highlights how facing rejection and failure is a universal part of the creative process, serving as a rite of passage and essential learning tool.
Grisham recalls how, after spending a year handwriting his first novel, “A Time to Kill,” he began submitting the manuscript to literary agents and publishers. He assembled a list of 10 agents and 10 publishers; his secretary would send out 20 submissions at a time, which were met with wave after wave of rejection letters. Checking the mailbox for these rejections became a weekly ritual. Mel Robbins later notes that Grisham "walked past the 28 rejections" before “A Time to Kill” eventually found a publisher.
Grisham acknowledges that his experience is typical—his first book’s commercial failure was not unusual in the profession. He emphasizes that many highly acclaimed authors, and many of the great books people love, also faced repeated, sometimes spectacular rejection. Grisham often tells aspiring writers these stories to underscore that rejection is a near-universal badge of commitment for successful creators, not a reason to stop. Robbins frames Grisham’s persistence in the face of repeated rejection and lack of early success as evidence of the deep commitment crucial to breaking through in the publishing world.
For Grisham, creating was its own reward, regardless of industry validation. He describes a standoff with his agent concerning requested changes to his novel “The Firm,” and how he refused to compromise his vision. For months, nothing happened; then, unexpectedly, the film rights sold for $600,000, validating his persistence and choice to hold out. Grisham emphasizes that learning to weather rejection is essential, and advocates that creators should build their identity around the act of creating, not around approval or market response.
Grisham credits the security provided by his legal career as a critical factor in his ability to persist through early failures. When “A Time to Kill” flopped, he was able to continue writing because he had the fallback of his law practice. He was able to consider giving up writing only after two attempts failed, but the stability of being a trial lawyer or “serious writer” gave him the security to withstand the repeated disappointments. This backup position protected him from financial desperation and gave him the confidence ...
Resilience Through Rejection and Failure
John Grisham’s approach to both law and writing highlights the power of patterned learning—closely studying admired professionals not to mythologize their talent, but to understand, replicate, and improve on the very real techniques that create excellence.
Early in his legal career, Grisham models this approach by seeking out skilled trial lawyers in Mississippi as role models. During his third year of law school, he finds classes easy and instead spends time at the federal courthouse across town, keenly observing the best lawyers performing in front of juries. He notes the magic of watching two heavyweight lawyers spar in a civil trial. While few students attend these proceedings, Grisham makes a point to learn directly from the experts. He explicitly tries to pattern his own legal practice after these top lawyers, understanding that excellence is learnable, not simply innate.
As he transitions to writing, Grisham reads a wide swath of popular fiction, not just to be entertained but to critically analyze both strengths and weaknesses. Often, he encounters bestselling books he considers "crap," believing he can surpass their storytelling quality and writing skill. This observation, rather than discouraging him, fuels his ambition—he recognizes that if flawed books can be published and find an audience, there is room for him, too. At the same time, he reads works he considers beyond his current skill, which inspire him to aspire higher. This dual recognition—that there is mediocrity he can outdo and greatness to chase—demystifies the perceived talent gap between aspiring writers and those on the bestseller list.
This practice of identifying patterns—looking up to study the skills of masters, and also noticing those who succeed with less talent—empowers Grisham. He understands that mastering any field means learning from the best and recognizing the breadth of ability that exists among published authors. New voices have as much opportunity as anyone dedicated to studying and improving their craft.
An encounter with a Waldenbooks executive in New York is pivotal for Grisham. The executive mentions that “the big guys come out every year”—referring to authors like Stephen King and Michael Crichton. This insight motivates Grisham to emulate that pattern, sparking a determination to release The Pelican Brief within a year and igniting his own streak of publishing one book annually for 35 years.
Grisham observes the behaviors of successful writers, recognizing that sustained presence in bookstores and building a brand through regular releases is a deliberate marketplace pattern. He adapts this strategy for his own career, understanding that discipline, consistency, and studying those already achieving success are key.
Modeling success is not about imitation, but about extracting the underlying principles that drive results. Inspired by established authors’ publishing frequency, Grisham writes The Pelican Brief in one year, applying this lesson directly to his work, and establishing himself as a mainstay in the market.
Grisham regularly tells aspiring writers that the publishing industry hungers for new talent every year. Reading debut novels by first-time writers demonstrates that “somebody’s going to get published every year.” The market is not closed; it constantly seeks fresh perspectives, celebrating newcomers al ...
Learning From Patterns and Modeling Success
John Grisham’s journey as a writer and advocate illustrates the power of commercial success when channeled toward issues of justice and human dignity. His narrative highlights how individual action, sustained commitment, and emotional responsiveness drive meaningful change, even amidst systemic injustices.
Grisham’s bestsellers, particularly "The Innocent Man," have served as catalysts for his advocacy on wrongful convictions. The book was inspired by an obituary Grisham read in The New York Times about a man who, like Grisham, was from his region, close in age, and came within five days of execution in Oklahoma before being proven innocent. This shocking realization propelled Grisham to Oklahoma, where he met with the man’s grieving family and decided to write about the case.
This work marked Grisham’s entry into the world of wrongful convictions, exposing him to the alarming scale of the problem—thousands of innocent people imprisoned in the U.S. The success of "The Innocent Man" and subsequent books built public awareness for these injustices, shifting Grisham’s purpose as a creator toward advocacy and reform. Grisham continues to write about wrongful convictions, advocating for criminal justice reform, and remains angry and frustrated by the ongoing lack of reform.
Faced with overwhelming injustice, both Grisham and Mel Robbins emphasize the importance of directing effort toward what one can control. Robbins suggests asking, "What can I do today that really is part of a positive shift, whether it's in my home, in my marriage, in my friendships, in my community, in the world at large?" She believes that collective, consistent small actions can build momentum for widespread change.
Grisham echoes this approach: "We hope we're providing hope for someone else. Baby steps, small steps, a little something every day." Through his nonprofit and advocacy work on issues such as childhood hunger, homelessness, and wrongful convictions, Grisham shows that incremental actions not only address immediate needs but also create lasting change and provide personal gratification, keeping advocates engaged over the long term.
Grisham’s enduring anger and frustration at injustices, especially in criminal justice, indicate his deep care and commitment. He observes that such frustration with slow reform is a sign of moral strength, contrasting it with numbness, which signals a loss of hu ...
Purpose-Driven Work and Social Impact
Download the Shortform Chrome extension for your browser
