In this episode of The Mel Robbins Podcast, James Sexton and Mel Robbins examine divorce as a multi-stage process with distinct emotional and practical phases. Sexton outlines the six stages of divorce—from recognizing marital unhappiness to post-divorce healing—and identifies specific situations that necessitate ending a marriage. The conversation covers practical considerations including legal strategy, financial planning, and the critical first 48 hours after deciding to divorce.
Beyond logistics, Sexton and Robbins address the emotional work required for genuine healing, emphasizing the necessity of grief, the value of therapy, and the dangers of rushing into new relationships before processing the end of a marriage. The episode also provides guidance for supporting loved ones through divorce and explores how to rebuild identity and create structure during recovery. Throughout, Sexton frames divorce not as failure but as one chapter in a larger life story, offering a path toward intentional living and future fulfillment.

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James Sexton and Mel Robbins outline divorce as a journey with distinct emotional and practical phases, helping individuals recognize where they are and how to navigate toward healing.
Divorce begins long before anyone speaks the word. Sexton explains that in the pre-contemplation stage, people feel disconnected and heavy—the marriage resembles roommates running a daycare rather than partners. Conversations center on logistics instead of emotions, and contempt replaces curiosity. Sexton describes this as "not fire but smoke," a dangerous precursor to breakdown. He stresses that the least expensive option—both financially and emotionally—is a direct, honest conversation about the marriage's state before intervention becomes necessary.
The contemplative stage arrives when someone privately questions their marriage's viability, conducting what Sexton calls an "internal trial" of grievances. He warns against waiting until resentments become unmanageable. It's crucial to identify whether the marriage is actually broken—through abuse, betrayal, or fundamental dishonesty—or simply neglected. Sexton identifies five situations requiring divorce: abuse, false self, stolen reality, repeated violations, and marriages forcing individuals to shrink. He advises confiding only in a therapist or one trusted friend, keeping children and social media out of deliberations. Sexton urges a vital self-check: would you want your children to have your marriage?
Once decided, Sexton urges certainty—divorce changes the family's trajectory permanently. The conversation should be brief and private, delivered in the first ten seconds with clear language: "I have given this a lot of thought, our marriage needs to end." He recommends owning your role to sidestep right-versus-wrong debates. Timing and logistics are critical: avoid nights, holidays, or public spaces, and prepare a 48-hour plan ensuring children are protected, living arrangements secured, and financial documents accessible.
The private decision becomes public as lawyers are retained and proceedings begin. Sexton emphasizes that divorce restructures rather than ends a family, establishing frameworks for future co-parenting. He recommends thinking of divorce as a business arrangement, differentiating between emotional wants, actual needs, and legal entitlements to prevent wasteful battles.
This legally and emotionally overwhelming stage often disappoints those expecting vindication from the legal system. Sexton warns that judges provide only practical outcomes—dividing assets and setting custody—not moral judgment or closure. He advises against defining the marriage by its worst moments and recommends focusing on core objectives with a trusted confidant's guidance.
Legal completion marks the beginning of emotional recovery. Sexton emphasizes that grief is inevitable and must be addressed through scheduled time, therapy, and conscious processing. Healing requires honesty in remembering the marriage—rewriting history as entirely loveless disrupts genuine closure. He cautions against rushing into new relationships, which postpones necessary grief work and raises the likelihood of repeating unhealthy patterns.
Sexton emphasizes that effective divorce attorneys are skilled in both aggressive litigation and negotiation, capable of acting as a "weapon" when necessary while prioritizing resolution without courtroom battles. The best attorneys understand every possible outcome and can predict judicial rulings, often resolving complex cases over just a few phone calls. Conversely, he warns against attorneys marketing themselves as strictly "friendly," as they often lack courtroom experience and may capitulate to unreasonable demands. Capable counsel is like a police officer carrying a gun to deter use rather than encourage it.
Sexton and Robbins stress securing copies of all financial documents before beginning divorce—understanding accounts, login information, financial planners, and life insurance beneficiaries. Since equal financial access is rare in marriages, Sexton asserts everyone should understand their household's financial situation, not just for divorce but for unexpected life events. He advises a cost-benefit analysis of legal actions, helping avoid emotional overspending on attorneys.
Sexton's 48-hour plan manages acute fallout immediately after the divorce decision. He insists on removing children from the "blast radius" to protect them from emotional distress, preventing parents from living together during this period to avoid additional harm. Providing access to money and safe accommodations enables both adults to avoid panic-driven decisions. How these first 48 hours are handled can set the tone for the entire divorce.
Sexton reframes divorce as a logistical process centered on property division, custody arrangements, and financial settlements—not moral judgment. Courts decide who gets what, not "who was right." Approaching divorce with a business mindset directs energy toward rebuilding rather than seeking futile vindication. He advises parents to present a unified message: the marriage has ended, but the family remains.
Sexton cautions against rewriting relationship history or pretending it never mattered. While denial can feel temporarily empowering, it short-circuits genuine healing. Grieving affirms that the love mattered and aids recovery. He highlights that anger often masks the harder work of grieving, recommending a conscious "appointment with grief"—dedicating specific time each week to process emotions rather than letting unscheduled grief consume daily life.
Sexton strongly advocates for seeking a therapist who challenges rather than just comforts. He recommends an exercise applicable to divorce: writing an unsent letter to the ex-spouse expressing all unsaid thoughts, then writing a response imagining the words you needed to hear. This process allows imagination to resolve unfinished emotional business and bring closure.
Sexton discusses rediscovering individual identity after marriage ends. Divorce removes the weight of a partner's expectations, opening possibilities to make different choices about identity and future relationships. Reconnecting with abandoned activities and spending meaningful solo time helps rebuild a fractured sense of self. Insights gained after divorce—particularly clarity about what one does not want—are a "superpower" leading to more fulfilling connections.
Sexton cautions against rushing into new relationships before genuine healing occurs. Immediately seeking dating or intimacy delays necessary grief work and self-reflection. He notes that higher divorce rates in second and third marriages often result from unresolved instability. True healing and future authentic connections are fostered by rebuilding oneself first rather than seeking immediate validation.
Sexton warns against offering support solely in the manner one finds personally meaningful. Instead, focus on understanding the divorcing person's specific needs. He stresses the value of specificity over vague offers—rather than "Let me know if I can help," propose tangible plans like "Do you want to have dinner on Thursday?" He also advocates providing a menu of options for spending time together, centering the divorcing friend's preferences.
When words fail, tangible acts of love become especially meaningful. Sexton notes saying "I wish I knew the perfect thing to say" acknowledges language's inadequacy while reinforcing love. He encourages seeking permission to help in practical ways like mowing the lawn or taking the kids for an outing. He cautions against unsolicited advice, which only adds to emotional work.
Sexton explains that ex-partners should jointly announce the end of their marriage, clarifying that co-parenting continues and there are no "teams." This could take the form of a mutual message asking friends to treat both ex-spouses with civility. Friends must respect boundaries and maintain relationships with both ex-partners, adapting to new family structures rather than taking sides.
Sexton acknowledges that even with best intentions, friendships may drift due to divorce's discomfort and changes. Loyalty means respecting both ex-partners and supporting the family's new form, not choosing sides.
Sexton emphasizes that struggling after divorce is best addressed with structure—healing requires scheduled commitments, not just motivation. He suggests making a list of activities abandoned during marriage and purposefully reintegrating them. Volunteering is highlighted as a powerful antidote to feelings of worthlessness. He likens life's stability to a table supported by multiple legs: community, friends, family, and hobbies collectively anchor individuals through healing.
Sexton encourages reframing divorce as a punctuation mark in life's story—one chapter among many. He insists it's never too late to become who you're meant to be. Chasing the self that existed before marriage is futile; life moves forward, not backward. By fixating on loss, people risk missing remaining possibilities. Divorce becomes an invitation to intentional living—consciously designing life in the next phase.
Sexton credits divorce survivors with a distinct advantage: clarity about what they don't want in future relationships. This hard-won understanding is often more valuable than abstract desires. The lessons learned enable better screening of potential partners and foster authenticity. He refers to this clarity as a superpower opening doors for richer, more fulfilling relationships.
Sexton insists that honoring the marriage's reality and significance—recognizing the love that once existed—is compatible with accepting it needed to end. Integrating the past experience leads to complete self-understanding. Accepting divorce as a normal part of life, without shame, enables authentic community and support. Viewing divorce as a chance to redesign life with intention brings agency and hope into the process.
1-Page Summary
James Sexton and Mel Robbins outline divorce as a journey with distinct emotional and practical phases. Understanding these six stages helps individuals and families recognize where they are, what actions are appropriate, and how to minimize harm while moving toward healing.
Divorce begins long before the word itself enters the conversation. In the pre-contemplation stage, a person often feels a sense of heaviness, disconnection, or malaise. Life together becomes flat, not broken by conflict but by neglect and a lost sense of partnership. The marriage resembles two roommates running a daycare, focusing solely on kids, the house, and logistics rather than each other’s emotions or dreams. Conversations become about tasks instead of feelings, and moments of true connection are rare. Contempt can creep in as the dominant emotional tone—partners start seeing each other as inconveniences rather than companions.
This stage is characterized by emotional flatness and an absence of curiosity about each other. When conversations with your spouse can no longer avoid awkward silences unless centered on logistics, it is a warning sign. Sexton describes this emotional backdrop as “not fire but smoke”—a dangerous, quiet precursor to more tangible marital breakdown.
Sexton stresses that the least expensive option—both financially and emotionally—is a direct, honest conversation about the marriage’s state. Avoiding the issue only leads to more pain or expensive interventions down the line. Even if it means a painful afternoon of truth, addressing problems directly is always easier and cheaper than waiting until intervention by lawyers or therapists becomes necessary.
The contemplative stage sets in when someone starts to privately question the viability of their marriage. This is often an internal dialogue that arises late at night, an “internal trial” where grievances are weighed without the other partner’s input. Sexton warns not to wait until resentments reach a breaking point. When the list of marital problems grows from just a few key issues to dozens, it becomes unmanageable.
It’s crucial to identify whether the marriage is actually broken—due to abuse, fundamental dishonesty, betrayal, or erosion of the self—or simply neglected and unattended. External stressors such as grief, loss, or major life changes can distort perceptions and should be recognized for their impact.
Sexton identifies five situations where divorce is necessary: abuse, false self or pretense, stolen reality (such as hidden financial or relational betrayals), repeated unrepentant violations, and marriages that force individuals to shrink to fit an unhealthy mold.
He advises confiding only in a therapist or a single, deeply trusted friend at this stage. Social media and the couple's children must not be part of this deliberation. Parents should avoid involving children or burdening them with uncertainty they are not equipped to handle. Instead, shadow changes can be made—such as spending more time with children individually—to ease eventual transitions.
Sexton underscores a vital self-check: would you want your children to have your marriage? The kind of relationship you model is the lesson your children will carry into their own adult lives.
Once the decision for divorce is made, clarity and certainty are necessary. Sexton urges people to be sure: once divorce is declared, it changes the family’s trajectory and cannot be undone by simply wishing it away.
The conversation ending the marriage should be brief and private—delivered in the first ten seconds, leaving space for the message to settle. No need for preambles or justifications, as explanations only invite arguments. Sexton suggests clear, honest language: “I have given this a lot of thought, our marriage needs to end.” He recommends owning your role in the relationship’s difficulties, which demonstrates accountability and helps sidestep right-versus-wrong debates that rehash old wounds.
Timing and logistics are critical. This is not a conversation for nights, holidays, or public spaces. No one should be intoxicated, and children should be protected from the immediate aftermath. Prepare a 48-hour plan: ensure children are out of the “blast radius,” arrange living accommodations, have financial documents accessible, and provide emotional space as necessary. How the divorce announcement is handled can profoundly shape both partners’ and children’s memories.
With Stage Four, the private decision transitions into a public and procedural reality—lawyers are retained, friends informed, and divorce proceedings begin.
Sexton emphasizes that divorce isn’t the end of a family but the restructuring of it, a ...
Six Stages of Divorce: Recognizing and Navigating From Pre-contemplation to Post-Divorce
James Sexton emphasizes that an effective divorce attorney is one skilled in both aggressive litigation and negotiation, capable of acting as a "weapon" when necessary but whose primary goal is to resolve matters without resorting to courtroom violence. He explains that the best attorneys are those who understand every possible outcome and can explain each path's upside and downside with clarity. Sexton notes the common misconception that hiring a litigator guarantees litigation, when in fact, the presence of a highly skilled litigator usually leads to quicker, amicable settlements. When both sides have competent counsel, they can predict a judge’s likely rulings and resolve even complex cases efficiently, sometimes over just a few phone calls, as Sexton describes in a case involving an $8 billion marital estate.
Conversely, Sexton warns against hiring attorneys who market themselves strictly as "friendly" divorce lawyers, as they often lack courtroom experience and may yield to unreasonable demands simply to avoid litigation. He explains that these lawyers may be afraid of going to court and are unprepared for the realities of litigation, often capitulating when faced with a capable adversary. As Sexton analogizes, capable legal counsel is like a police officer carrying a gun to deter use rather than encourage it—they are prepared to protect but prioritize resolution without unnecessary escalation.
Both James Sexton and Mel Robbins stress the critical importance of anticipating financial needs before beginning the divorce process. They recommend securing copies of all important financial documents, knowing where accounts are kept, understanding login information, identifying financial planners, and confirming the existence and beneficiaries of life insurance policies. Since equal access to financial information is rare in marriages, Sexton asserts that everyone—regardless of marital satisfaction—should possess a basic understanding of their household’s financial situation. This preparation is not only vital for divorce but also for unexpected life events such as illness or death.
Sharing this knowledge between partners ensures that either person can seamlessly navigate financial affairs if circumstances change unexpectedly. Sexton advises a cost-benefit analysis of legal actions during divorce; understanding survival needs, comfort wants, and legal entitlements helps avoid the trap of emotional overspending on attorneys. The goal is to avoid driving up legal fees by fighting over matters that might not be worth the resulting expense and stress.
Sexton outlines a 48-hour plan to manage the acute fallout immediately after a divorce decision is made. He insists on removing children from the immediate environment ("blast radius") to protect them from emotional distress during initial parental discussions. Parents should not attempt to live together in the immediate aftermath; separation during this period prevents additional emotional harm and avoids extended arguments. Providing access to money, safe accommodations, and ensuring financial literacy enables ...
Legal Strategy: Hiring the Right Attorney, Financial Implications, 48-hour Plan, Treating Divorce As a Business Transaction
James Sexton emphasizes that it is important to acknowledge the reality and significance of a failed marriage. He cautions against rewriting the history of the relationship to pretend it never mattered, or saying, "I never loved this person." While such denial or angry rewriting can feel temporarily empowering, it is dishonest for most people and short-circuits genuine healing. Grieving the end of a marriage instead affirms that the love and the experience mattered. Allowing oneself to feel the pain is a meaningful way to honor that chapter of life and aids in recovery.
Sexton highlights that anger often feels more powerful than sadness but functions as a means to avoid the harder, more vulnerable work of grieving. Suppressing or bypassing sadness — by focusing on empowering narratives or ignoring the pain — keeps people emotionally stuck. He recommends making a conscious “appointment with grief,” such as dedicating a specific time each week to process emotions, listen to music, and allow tears, rather than letting unscheduled grief consume the entire day or life.
Sexton strongly advocates for seeking a mental health professional after divorce, specifically choosing a therapist who challenges, not just comforts. The value in therapy comes from confronting feelings one is afraid to face, asking oneself difficult questions about what emotions are being avoided and why.
He recounts an exercise that helped him grieve the loss of his mother, which is also applicable to divorce: writing an unsent letter to the ex-spouse expressing all the thoughts left unsaid, and then writing a letter in response from the ex, imagining the words one needed or wished to hear. This process allows the imagination to resolve unfinished emotional business and bring vital conversations to closure. A good therapist guides this process, helping one process the loss and then refocus on life’s remaining possibilities and future growth.
Sexton discusses the importance of rediscovering one’s individual identity after the end of a marriage. Divorce can remove the weight of a partner’s expectations or the pressure to live up to a shared or idealized version of oneself. This opens up the possibility to make different choices about identity, activities, and future relationships.
Reconnecting with activities and interests that may have been abandoned during the marriage, and spending meaningful solo time, can help rebuild a fractured sense of self. Sexton observes that insights gained after divorce — particularly clarity about what one does not want in future relationships — are a “superpower” that can lead to more fulfi ...
Emotional Healing: Grieving Marriage, Avoiding Mistakes, Therapy, and Building Post-Divorce Identity
James Sexton provides practical guidance for supporting friends going through divorce, emphasizing empathy, tangible offers of support, and strategies to preserve social circles and maintain healthy boundaries.
Sexton warns against offering support solely in the manner one finds personally meaningful. Instead, he advises friends to focus on understanding the divorcing person’s specific needs, not making assumptions or projecting their own experiences of divorce, frustration, or desires to be a compadre. The goal is to meet the person where they are, responding to their individual emotional state.
He also stresses the value of specificity over vague offers. Rather than saying, “Let me know if I can help” or “I’m here for you,” it is more supportive to propose a tangible plan—such as suggesting, “Do you want to have dinner on Thursday?” or “Can I come over to see you?” Extending concrete invitations with flexibility, while making it clear there's no pressure if plans change, conveys genuine presence and willingness.
Sexton also advocates providing a menu of options for spending time together: “We can talk about it if you need, or not talk at all. I can distract you with funny stories, we can go to the movies, walk around, or just sit in silence.” This approach centers the divorcing friend’s preferences and allows the mood or activity to adapt as needed.
When words fail, tangible acts of love become especially meaningful. Sexton notes saying, “I wish I knew the perfect thing to say because I would say it right now,” acknowledges the inadequacy of language but reinforces love—“I love you, and it hurts that you’re hurting.” He encourages friends to seek permission to help in practical ways not just for the recipient, but to allow the helper to channel caring energy, suggesting actions like mowing the lawn, taking the kids for an outing, or preparing a meal.
Ongoing support can also take the form of empathetic presence: offering to cry together if needed or to lighten the emotional load through shared laughter. Sexton cautions against unsolicited advice, which only adds to the emotional work of the person in pain.
Sexton explains that inviting friends into the rawest moments of a divorce can pressure them to choose sides, exacerbating social splits. To prevent division, ex-partners should jointly announce the end of their marriage, clarifying that co-parenting continues and there are ...
Supporting Others: Preventing Fractured Friendships During Divorce
James Sexton emphasizes that struggling after divorce is a feeling best addressed with structure. Healing requires rules and scheduled commitments, not just waiting for motivation. He suggests making a list of activities that were abandoned during marriage—such as yoga classes or museum visits—and purposefully reintegrating them into daily life. This scheduled return to self-chosen activities reignites a connection to one's identity outside the relationship.
Volunteering is highlighted as a powerful antidote to the sense of worthlessness that often accompanies divorce. Sexton describes the intrinsic value in service to others: every person is needed, and helping others can restore a sense of purpose.
Sexton likens life’s stability to a table supported by multiple legs: community, friends, family, faith groups, pets, and hobbies collectively serve as pillars. In the absence of a romantic relationship, these pillars offer critical stability, preventing emotional collapse and anchoring individuals through the process of healing.
Sexton encourages reframing divorce as a punctuation mark in the story of life—a notable event, but only one chapter among many in an ongoing narrative. Divorce is a segment in the Wikipedia page of one’s life, deserving neither shame nor stigma, just honest acknowledgment. He insists that it is never too late to become who you are meant to be; the post-divorce phase is an active stage in self-becoming, composed of all accumulated lessons and scars.
Chasing the self that existed before marriage is futile; life is composed of chapters that move forward, not backward. By focusing on loss, people risk missing out on what possibilities remain. Sexton draws on Cormac McCarthy to illustrate how fixating on what is gone causes further unconscious loss. Instead, embracing future growth with current resources fosters progress.
Divorce, then, becomes an invitation to intentional living—not simply enduring what life delivers, but designing a life authentically and consciously in the next phase.
Sexton credits divorce survivors with a distinct advantage: clarity about what they do not want in future relationships. This hard-won understanding is often more valuable than abstract notions of what is desired. The lessons learned from difficult relationships—what dynamics to avoid, how one does not want to be treated or become—enable better screening of potential partners and foster authe ...
Rebuilding Post-Divorce: Self-Reconnection, Healing Structure, Moving Forward Without Immediate Relationships, Viewing Divorce As a Chapter
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