#327 Josh Howerton - "In 50 Years, China Will Have More Christians Than America"

Forgiveness and justice, while deeply entwined in Christian belief, operate in distinct yet complementary ways, rooted in the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. Exploring this relationship reveals the depth of biblical teaching and the personal journey many walk when wounded or wronged.

Forgiveness and Reconciliation Operate On Different Levels

Forgiveness, as discussed between Shawn Ryan and Josh Howerton, often feels like a self-cleansing act: it is a means of healing personal wounds and releasing burdens, regardless of the offender’s actions or acknowledgment. Howerton emphasizes that, through Jesus' sacrifice, forgiveness is always possible—it's a command for followers of Christ, not a suggestion. Jesus paid for all sins, so believers are not permitted to withhold forgiveness from anyone who sins against them. The act of forgiveness is between the wronged and God; reconciliation, on the other hand, requires mutual effort, accountability, and, at times, repentance from the offender.

Howerton draws on the taxonomy from Proverbs, describing three types of people to help determine reconciliation after forgiveness: the wise, the foolish, and the evil. Wise people can be reconciled with, as they own their actions and pursue restoration. Foolish individuals may or may not be safe to reconcile with. Evil people, Howerton warns, must be kept at a distance—reconciliation is neither safe nor biblical.

Forgiving Repeated Offenses Is an Ongoing Process

Forgiving is rarely a one-and-done event. Howerton cites Jesus’ instruction to Peter to forgive "seventy times seven" (490 times), explaining that continual forgiveness is often necessary for repeated offenses, especially when painful memories resurface. Sometimes, a person may have to forgive the same offense repeatedly, each time it returns to mind, and this does not mean forgiveness was insincere or incomplete.

To help process and ultimately forgive, Howerton recommends creating a "debt ledger"—writing down who sinned, what they did, and the impact it had. This detailed exploration identifies exactly what was lost or taken. The next step is crucial: once everything is named and processed, one faces a decision—hold onto the ledger, or intentionally cancel the debt. Physically destroying the ledger (burning it or nailing it to a cross, for instance) serves as a symbolic act of releasing the demand for repayment, entrusting judgment and justice to God, who alone promises to repay or punish justly.

Howerton maintains that every sin is ultimately paid for: either the perpetrator becomes a Christian and their sin is paid for by Jesus' sacrificial death, or, if they reject Christ, they will answer for their sin themselves.

Justice and Forgiveness: Different Spheres of Responsibility

Forgiveness and justice are not in conflict—they operate in different spheres. The wronged individual is called to forgive the harmer, releasing them from personal vengeance. Meanwhile, societal institutions—family, church, and state—are established to pursue justice. The family disciplines, the church exercises spiritual authority, and the state "bears the sword," executing justice and restraining evil, as taught in Romans 13.

A person can and should forgive, but this does not preclude reporting a crime or seeking legal actio ...

Josh Howerton and Shawn Ryan discuss the spiritual dynamics behind contemporary culture, asserting that scripture both predicts and explains the current resistance to Christianity, the rise of competing ideologies, and the enduring power of biblical truth. Their conversation draws connections between biblical prophecy and the realities of the modern world, with particular attention to issues of spiritual warfare, false gospels, and secular hostility toward Christianity.

Scripture Predicts Modern Culture's Opposition to Christianity

Howerton emphasizes that the Bible explicitly foretells cultural opposition to Christianity. He points to the foundational story in Genesis, where after mankind's fall, Satan immediately wages war on the offspring that God plans to use for redemption. Howerton notes that this theme—Word versus world—runs through the entire Bible.

Referencing the Book of Revelation, Howerton explains that much of its content reveals the ongoing spiritual battle occurring behind the scenes throughout history. In Revelation 12, Satan—represented as a dragon—wages war upon the woman, interpreted as the church and the followers of Christ. The Bible describes the world as being "under the power of the evil one" and refers to Satan as the "god of this world," suggesting that all major worldly powers and movements are ultimately aligned against Christianity.

Citing Raymond Ibrahim, Howerton highlights a striking observation: worldviews and movements that appear deeply opposed—such as progressivism and Islam—consistently unite in opposition to Christianity. Ibrahim notes the paradox of these alliances, such as progressivism's support for women's and gay rights aligning with Islam, which in many contexts opposes those rights. The only clear explanation, they suggest, is that the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" principle is at work, and that there's a unifying spiritual opposition to Christ. Howerton concludes that "everything aligns against one thing," and that must indicate the profound truth and uniqueness at the center of Christianity.

Biblical Warnings Predict Rise of False Gospels

Building on these ideas, Howerton examines how the Bible warns about the rise of false gospels and alternative paths to God. He points to the emergence of Islam, recounting its origin as Muhammad received revelation from an "angel of light" in the 600s, leading him to proclaim a new way to reach God distinct from the biblical message. Howerton refers to New Testament passages, especially Galatians 1:8, where Paul warns that "even if we or an angel from heaven should appear to you and preach to you another gospel, let him be accursed." He connects this with the biblical claim that Satan "masquerades as an angel of light," asserting this is a direct warning against spiritual deceptions such as those seen in the birth of Islam.

Howerton further stresses the exclusivity of Jesus's claim in John 14:6: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." He emphasizes that Jesus did not present himself as just another path to God, but as the only way. According to Howerton, the proliferation of spiritual systems, each proposing new gospels or paths, directly fulfill these biblical warnings about the enemy’s strategy to deceive through apparent light and new revelation. This, he argues, makes vigilance and a thorough knowledge of scripture vital for all believers.

Secular Opposition to Christianity Often Masks Spiritual Hostility Ov ...

Spiritual Lineage and Covenant Conflict in Genesis as Theological Framework for Islamic Eschatology

Shawn Ryan and Josh Howerton begin their discussion by exploring the foundational narrative in Genesis, where God makes a covenant with Abram, later Abraham. Howerton stresses that the covenant promises a blessed offspring, noting the biblical specificity of "offspring" in the singular. This is reaffirmed by the Apostle Paul in Galatians, who interprets the promise as finding its ultimate fulfillment in Jesus Christ, marking Christ as the singular blessed descendant through whom all nations would be blessed.

Genesis presents the complication of Abraham's two sons. Impatient for God’s promise to be fulfilled, Abraham, through his wife Sarah’s urging, fathers Ishmael with Hagar, Sarah’s servant. Later, he fathers Isaac with Sarah, the legitimate child of promise. This results in one covenant but two sons—Isaac and Ishmael—whose descendants are linked to intricate, ongoing conflict. Howerton explains that, historically, the "children of the promise" are the Jewish people, descended from Isaac. Meanwhile, Muslims traditionally trace their spiritual lineage to Ishmael, Abraham’s other son. This division forms the foundation of ongoing spiritual and often physical conflict, as the nations identified with Isaac and Ishmael reflect and amplify this original rift, interpreting the ancient promise and its fulfillment differently.

Islamic Eschatology Parallels Biblical Antichrist, Hinting At Potential Deception

Turning to the prophetic and eschatological dimensions, Howerton unpacks the similarities between Islamic and Christian end-times expectations. In Islamic eschatology, the Mahdi (M-A-H-D-I) is a messianic figure expected to rise amidst global turmoil. Islamic traditions hold differing interpretations, but key themes often include the Mahdi uniting the world under a single Islamic government headquartered in Jerusalem, the slaughter of Jews, the establishment of a seven-year peace treaty, and the Mahdi entering triumphantly on a white horse.

Howerton points out striking parallels between these features and Christian descriptions of the Antichrist in the New Testament. For many listeners familiar with biblical prophecy, these echoes raise red flags, as the Mahdi’s story mirrors points in the Antichrist narrative, including global dominion, a false peace, and violent persecution.

Jesus Warned Of a Religious System Sanctifying Violence Against Non-believers in God's Name, Opposing Christianity

Citing the Gospel of John, Howerton explains Jesus’s warning: the time will come when those who kill believers will think they are offering service to God. He suggests that at the climax of history, the greatest opposition to Christianity will not be atheism or secularism, but a religious system that justifies violence in the name of God. Howerton connects this warning with Islamic texts, which in some places command violence—in particular, the Qur'an specif ...

Josh Howerton discusses the real challenges and approaches to passing faith to children, emphasizing authenticity, intentional community, and the power of storytelling about God’s faithfulness.

Authentic Faith Transmission Requires Parents to Model Genuine, Imperfect Faith Instead of Perfection

Howerton insists that faith transmission isn’t about guaranteeing outcomes; even the best parenting cannot ensure a child’s faith, as shown in the Garden of Eden where a perfect Father, environment, and children still resulted in rebellion. He cautions parents against self-blame, clarifying there’s no scriptural promise that perfect parenting will guarantee faithful kids. Grace is crucial.

He underscores that real, imperfect faith is more impactful than a façade of perfection. He recalls watching his typically unemotional father become moved during worship, realizing his dad was genuinely meeting with God. These moments of authentic, emotional vulnerability consistently drew him toward faith: children instinctively sense insincerity and are drawn instead to real encounters with the divine, demonstrated through adults’ honest emotional responses and humble admissions of need for grace.

Childhood, Howerton observes, is the age of folly and foolishness—“foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child.” Kids’ default state is rebellion, and it is parents’ role not to “get down in their world,” but to pull them up into the world of wisdom, godliness, and virtue. Howerton credits his parents, especially his mother’s diligence in Bible verse quizzes and consistent, nurturing discipline, with guiding him away from folly.

Creating a Community Where Children's Faith Thrives

Howerton highlights the importance of surrounding children with a community (“a redeemed village”) of godly adults who consistently model integrity, wisdom, and love for Jesus—what the Bible calls the church. As a child, he constantly witnessed his father’s discipleship group—normal adults who loved Jesus and one another—meeting weekly, reading the Bible, and supporting each other.

He points out that children naturally emulate those they admire, so if parents build a respected community of believers, children will desire to belong and grow into similar faith and character. Howerton describes his admiration for his father’s friends, especially his youth pastor, and how this inspired him to become the kind of person who could fit in among these role models rather than aligning with peers in rebellion.

He shares how, echoing his own upbringing, he now invites his daughter Eliana into adult spaces—staff meetings filled with people seeking to serve God—rather than isolating her in youth-only environments. Bringing children into authentic worship and faith communities exposes them to genuine spiritual life, making rebellion seem less appealing and faith more attainable.

Storytelling On G ...

Leading a Large Congregation Requires Restructured Accountability and Pastoral Care Systems

Josh Howerton leads a church with an average attendance of 30,000 people each week. He explains that as churches grow, the structure of leadership and pastoral care must change to meet the needs of the congregation effectively. He references the Book of Acts, where, as the early church grew and pastors were distracted from prayer and ministry by other needs like food distribution, they restructured by appointing deacons. This system allowed pastors to refocus on their primary tasks while ensuring members still received care.

In modern large churches, the senior pastor cannot personally handle every need. Instead, ministry is delegated to a team of pastors and leaders, each gifted for specific areas such as counseling or discipleship. For instance, Howerton notes there are staff members far more equipped to counsel those experiencing trauma, so he refers individuals to pastors best suited to help.

Even with this structure, Howerton emphasizes the importance of genuine pastoral presence. He and his wife spend time in church lobbies after services, praying and connecting with members. They travel to campuses to be present early, participate in prayer, and lead small discipleship groups in their home to “do for one what you wish you could do for all.” He gives personal examples, such as regularly checking in and praying with a terminally ill church member, illustrating how direct and meaningful connections remain a priority. He notes that pastors must prioritize their time based on need and opportunity, intentionally investing in people where they can make the most impact.

Integrity at Scale Needs Advisors Who Speak Truth Without Fear

Howerton stresses that pastors, especially those with large platforms, need close relationships with trusted advisors who are not financially dependent on them, including spouses, elders, and longtime friends. He prioritizes feedback from his wife Jana, church elders, and a "band of brothers"—a small inner circle that knows his strengths and weaknesses and communicates daily with encouragement and honest critique.

He describes an intentional system where church elders and trusted peers have open permission to provide constructive feedback. Each year, he asks his elders what he should start, stop, or continue doing and gives them authority to confront him candidly to prevent more public embarrassment or failure. These advisors do not receive financial compensation from the church, which safeguards their ability to give honest input free from personal interests.

Howerton distinguishes between valuing feedback from this trusted inner circle and dismissing criticism from anonymous online detractors or individuals with financial motives. He asserts, “Criticism should be weighed, not counted,” and points to biblical principles: truth sometimes requires taking unpopular stands. He emphasizes that some people genuinely love him enough to tell him hard truths, which is essential for maintaining integrity at scale.

Misconceptions About Mega-Church Pastors Misrepresent Faithful Leaders

Howerton observes that sensational stories about mega-church pastors often dominate media coverage, while positive examples of integ ...