#231 Gerard Barron - CIA Project Azorian & Deep Sea Mining That Could Change the World
In this episode of the Shawn Ryan Show, Gerard Barron, founder of The Metals Company, discusses his company's deep-sea mining operations in the Clarion-Clipperton Zone. Barron explains how extracting polymetallic nodules from the ocean floor could provide critical minerals like nickel, cobalt, and manganese, while potentially having less environmental impact than traditional land-based mining.
The conversation explores the geopolitical implications of deep-sea mining, particularly regarding China's current dominance in the global mineral supply chain. Barron outlines how The Metals Company's work could strengthen U.S. national security by reducing reliance on foreign mineral imports, and describes the potential for revitalizing American manufacturing sectors through domestic mineral processing and refining facilities.
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1-Page Summary
Background and Deep Sea Mining Industry
Gerard Barron, an entrepreneur from Queensland, Australia, leads The Metals Company, a pioneering deep-sea mining venture founded in 2011. The company focuses on extracting polymetallic nodules from the ocean floor, particularly in the Clarion-Clipperton Zone, which contains valuable metals like nickel, cobalt, and manganese.
Environmental and Technological Benefits
Barron explains that deep-sea nodule mining offers significant environmental advantages over traditional land mining. Unlike destructive rainforest mining operations, deep-sea mining occurs in low-biomass areas that recover quickly. The nodules' high metal concentration—33% compared to land ores' 0.6%—enables more efficient extraction and processing, with minimal waste generation.
Geopolitical Dynamics and China's Influence
According to Barron, China's control over 70% of the global nickel market and dominance in critical mineral supply chains poses significant risks to U.S. security. The Metals Company's operations in the Clarion-Clipperton zone represent a strategic move to reduce U.S. reliance on Chinese minerals, with support from the U.S. government and partnerships with companies like Korea Zinc.
U.S. Reindustrialization Potential
Barron suggests that The Metals Company's reliable supply of critical minerals could revitalize U.S. manufacturing sectors that have declined over decades, including shipbuilding, aerospace, and renewable energy. The company plans to establish processing and refining facilities within the United States, potentially creating jobs and strengthening domestic supply chains.
National Security Implications
The U.S.'s heavy reliance on imported critical minerals presents significant national security risks, according to Barron. He explains that The Metals Company's project could help strengthen national defense capabilities by reducing dependency on foreign minerals and supporting the revival of domestic manufacturing of military materials and equipment.
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Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Polymetallic nodules are potato-sized mineral formations found on the ocean floor, containing valuable metals like nickel, cobalt, and manganese. The extraction process involves collecting these nodules using specialized equipment, such as remotely operated vehicles, and bringing them to the surface for processing. This method is considered less environmentally damaging compared to traditional land mining, as it occurs in low-biomass areas with quicker recovery rates. The high metal concentration in these nodules allows for more efficient extraction and processing, minimizing waste generation.
- The Clarion-Clipperton Zone is a vast area in the Pacific Ocean known for its abundance of polymetallic nodules containing valuable metals like nickel, cobalt, and manganese. It is a prime target for deep-sea mining due to the high concentration of these metals, offering a potential alternative source to traditional land mining. The zone's significance lies in its potential to provide a sustainable and efficient supply of critical minerals while reducing environmental impact compared to terrestrial mining operations. Deep-sea mining ventures in this area aim to address global demand for essential metals and lessen reliance on geopolitically sensitive mineral supply chains.
- China's control over the global nickel market stems from its significant production capacity and reserves, allowing it to influence global nickel prices and supply chains. This control gives China leverage in various industries that rely on nickel, such as stainless steel production, electric vehicle manufacturing, and battery technology. China's dominance in the nickel market can impact geopolitical dynamics and trade relationships, especially with countries dependent on nickel imports for their industrial activities.
- China's dominance in critical mineral supply chains gives it significant influence over industries reliant on these minerals. This control can impact global trade, economic stability, and national security of countries dependent on these resources. Countries like the U.S. may face vulnerabilities if they rely heavily on a single source for essential minerals needed in various sectors, including technology, defense, and renewable energy. Diversifying supply chains and reducing dependency on a single country for critical minerals can help mitigate risks associated with geopolitical tensions or disruptions in the supply chain.
- Deep-sea mining, particularly the extraction of polymetallic nodules, can provide a reliable supply of critical minerals that are essential for various industries. By reducing reliance on imported minerals, the U.S. could potentially revitalize its manufacturing sectors, such as shipbuilding, aerospace, and renewable energy. Establishing processing facilities domestically could create jobs and strengthen supply chains, contributing to the reindustrialization of the U.S. economy. This reindustrialization potential is seen as a way to enhance national security by decreasing dependency on foreign sources for critical minerals.
- The U.S.'s heavy reliance on imported critical minerals poses national security risks due to potential disruptions in the global supply chain, which could impact industries vital for defense and economic stability. These minerals are essential for manufacturing various defense technologies, renewable energy systems, and high-tech devices, making the U.S. vulnerable to supply chain disruptions or geopolitical tensions. By reducing dependency on foreign sources through domestic production or alternative supply chains, the U.S. aims to enhance its national security resilience and safeguard critical industries from external vulnerabilities.
Counterarguments
- Environmental concerns about deep-sea mining include potential damage to unique ecosystems and species that are not yet fully understood, which may not recover as quickly as suggested.
- The efficiency of metal extraction from nodules must be balanced against the full environmental cost of deep-sea mining, including the carbon footprint of operations and potential pollution.
- China's dominance in the mineral market is a complex issue that may not be fully mitigated by deep-sea mining, considering global market dynamics and existing trade relationships.
- The strategic move to mine in the Clarion-Clipperton Zone may not significantly reduce U.S. reliance on Chinese minerals without a comprehensive strategy that includes recycling and alternative materials.
- Revitalizing U.S. manufacturing sectors involves more than just the supply of raw materials and would require addressing broader economic and policy issues.
- The creation of jobs and strengthening of supply chains in the U.S. must be weighed against the potential for automation and the global competitive landscape, which could limit the expected benefits.
- National security implications of mineral dependency are multifaceted, and enhancing defense capabilities may require a more diversified approach beyond domestic mining initiatives.
- The potential benefits to national defense must be considered alongside the ethical and environmental implications of sourcing materials, ensuring that security interests do not override other concerns.
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Jared Baron's Background and Deep Sea Mining Industry
Gerard Barron shared insights into his entrepreneurial career, showcasing expertise in media, technology, battery manufacturing, and resource development, and shedding light on the pioneering work his company is doing in the deep sea mining industry.
Jared Baron: Entrepreneur in Media, Technology, Battery Manufacturing, and Resource Development
Gerard Barron hails from Queensland, Australia, and has made a global impact by building companies across various sectors. He boasts notable achievements, such as funding and profitably selling a company focused on different types of metals in 2007. Barron is now at the helm of the Metals Company, which he started in 2011, drawing upon his prior experience with Nautilus Minerals.
Chairman & CEO of The Metals Company, Leading Deep Sea Polymetallic Nodule Mining
As chairman and CEO, Barron propels the Metals Company to the forefront of the deep sea polymetallic nodule mining industry.
The Metals Company, Founded In 2011, Extracts and Processes Ocean Floor Polymetallic Nodules
Nodules Are Rich in Critical Metals: Nickel, Cobalt, Manganese, Making Them Attractive
The Metals Company concentrates on mining nodules found in the Clarion-Clipperton Zone, which holds a wealth of critical metals such as nickel, cobalt, and manganese. These metals have accumulated in high-grade deposits due to the erosion of mountain ranges like the Rockies and the Andes. The nodules are not only a rich source of essential metals but are also key to the company’s strategy for tapping into these resources.
Developing Technology for Commercial Extraction and Processing of Nodules
To facilitate the commercial extraction and processing of these nodules, the Metals Company has invested substantially in both environmental research and the development o ...
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Counterarguments
- Concerns about environmental impact: Deep sea mining could potentially have significant and not yet fully understood impacts on marine ecosystems, including the disruption of seabed habitats and species.
- Regulatory and ethical challenges: There is ongoing debate about the regulation of deep sea mining and whether current legal frameworks are adequate to protect the marine environment.
- Economic viability: The cost-effectiveness of deep sea mining compared to land-based mining is still under scrutiny, and it's uncertain whether the high costs of deep sea extraction can be justified by the market value of the metals.
- Technological hurdles: While the company is developing technology for extraction, deep sea mining is a relatively new field, and there may be unforeseen technical challenges that could affect the feasibility of the operation.
- Dependency on finite resources: The focus on extracting finite resources from the ocean floor does not address the long-term sustainability issues associated with resource consumption and may divert attention from deve ...
Actionables
- You can explore the potential of deep sea minerals by starting a blog or social media page dedicated to discussing the environmental and technological aspects of deep sea mining. Share articles, create infographics, and engage with your audience on the potential benefits and challenges, fostering a community interested in sustainable resource development.
- Consider investing in companies that focus on sustainable resource extraction, like those involved in deep sea mining, if you're interested in ethical investing. Research their environmental policies, technology, and partnerships to make informed decisions about where to allocate your funds, potentially supporting innovations that align with your values.
- Educate yourself ...
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Environmental and Technological Benefits of Deep Sea Mining
Gerard Barron discusses the environmental and technological advantages of deep sea nodule mining, highlighting its minimal ecological footprints and efficient extraction processes compared to traditional land mining.
Deep Sea Nodule Mining Is Greener Than Land Mining
Barron uses a first principle analogy, arguing that extractive industries should prefer areas with the least amount of life. In contrast to the environmental devastation of rainforest areas for nickel laterite mining, which massively impacts biodiversity and local industries, deep-sea mining occurs in lower-biomass areas and has rapid recovery rates.
Ocean Floor Nodules Allow Minimal Disturbance Collection
The areas where nodules are found recover quickly, signaling that the impact of their extraction is minimal. Barron emphasizes the abyssal zone, which makes up 70% of the planet’s oceanic regions and characteristically features low biomass because any food descends down the water column before reaching this great depth. He suggests that the robot designed for collecting these nodules has a slight imprint on the ocean floor, which significantly reduces disturbance compared to land mining.
Processing Nodules Generates Less Waste and Impact Than Traditional Mining
Collecting and processing ocean floor nodules leads to less waste and a lesser impact when compared to traditional land-based mining. The process mainly involves separating the nodules from the sediment. Barron implies that this method results in less biomass ecosystem destruction, fewer impacts on biodiversity, reduced CO2 emissions, and less influence on freshwater ecosystems. Barron asserts that creating metals from ocean nodules is accompanied by massively reduced impacts compared to land-based alternatives.
High Metal Concentration Enhances Extraction Efficiency Over Land Mining
Nodules Have 33% ...
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Environmental and Technological Benefits of Deep Sea Mining
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- In extractive industries, the first principle analogy suggests that operations should prioritize areas with minimal existing life to minimize ecological impact. This principle contrasts with traditional practices that often lead to significant environmental damage in biodiverse regions. By focusing on lower-biomass areas like the deep sea for mining activities, the first principle analogy aims to reduce ecological footprints and support faster ecosystem recovery.
- Nickel laterite mining can have significant impacts on biodiversity and local industries due to the destruction of habitats, disruption of ecosystems, and contamination of water sources with heavy metals. The process of extracting nickel from laterite ores often involves clearing large areas of land, leading to habitat loss for various plant and animal species. Additionally, the release of pollutants during mining activities can harm local ecosystems and affect the livelihoods of communities dependent on these natural resources.
- The abyssal zone is the deepest part of the ocean, characterized by extremely high pressure, low temperatures, and absence of sunlight. This zone is home to unique ecosystems adapted to extreme conditions, with organisms relying on food particles sinking from upper layers. Deep-sea mining in the abyssal zone targets polymetallic nodules on the ocean floor, which are rich in valuable metals like nickel, copper, and cobalt. Mining in this zone aims to minimize ecological impact due to the naturally low biodiversity and slow recovery rates of abyssal ecosystems.
- The robot designed for collecting nodules in deep sea mining operations is engineered to have a minimal imprint on the ocean floor. This means that the robot's impact on the seabed is carefully managed to reduce disturbance during the collection process. By minimizing its footprint, the robot helps maintain the delicate balance of the deep-sea ecosystem while extracting valuable resources efficiently. The design and operation of these robots are crucial in ensuring sustainable deep sea mining practices.
- In deep-sea mining, separating nodules from sediment involves using specialized equipment like robotic collectors. These collectors are designed to carefully pick up nodules while minimizing disturbance to the surrounding seabed. The nodules are then brought to the surface for processing, where they are separated from any remaining sediment and prepared for further extraction of valuable metals. This process aims to efficiently extract metals from the nodules while minimizing environmental impact on the deep-sea ecosystem.
- In deep-sea mining, the process of coll ...
Counterarguments
- Deep sea nodule mining's long-term ecological impacts are not fully understood, and minimal short-term footprints do not guarantee minimal long-term effects.
- Preferring areas with the least amount of life does not consider the complexity and importance of deep-sea ecosystems, which may be less visible but are crucial for overall ocean health.
- Rapid recovery rates in deep-sea environments are not well-documented, and recovery may actually take decades or longer due to slow growth rates and low reproduction rates of deep-sea organisms.
- Minimal disturbance collection methods for ocean floor nodules have not been proven at scale, and the potential for sediment plumes and disruption to deep-sea life remains a concern.
- The abyssal zone, while characterized by low biomass, plays a role in carbon sequestration and nutrient cycling, and disturbances could have cascading effects on ocean chemistry and biology.
- Processing nodules may generate less visible waste, but the energy requirements and potential chemical pollution associated with deep-sea mining operations could offset perceived benefits.
- The claim that creating metals from ocean nodules has reduced impacts compared to land-based alternatives does n ...
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Geopolitical Dynamics and Competition With China
Shawn Ryan and Gerard Barron discuss concerns that China has the world, including the US, at a disadvantage in several areas due to their control of the critical mineral supply chains and their ambitious geopolitical goals.
China's Control of Critical Mineral Supply Chains Puts Us, Allies at Risk
China, with strategic maneuvering in geopolitical and industrial domains, has assumed a dominant position which influences global markets and puts allies at risk.
China Controls 70% of Global Nickel, Expands Mining With Environmental Impacts
Gerard Barron points out that China controls 70% of the global nickel market and expands mining activities with considerable environmental impacts. China's control over minerals, coupled with their dominant position, suggests competition and risk as Barron acknowledges their long game is to manipulate classification standards to their advantage in the industry.
China's Control of Mineral Supply Chains Threatens Us Security
The conversation touches on the dangers of relying on China for critical minerals, such as the US importing 100% of its manganese. Barron notes the potential detrimental effects of this reliance on US security. He discusses the influence of China on the International Seabed Authority and their efforts to dominate deep ocean, deep earth, and deep space.
Metals Company's Mining Reduces U.S. Reliance on China's Critical Minerals
The activities of the Metals Company in the Clarion-Clipperton zone highlight a strategic move to reduce U.S. reliance on China for critical minerals and to align with re-industrialization efforts.
Company Partners With Us Government to Accelerate Deep Sea Mining Project Permitting and Development
Though not detailed in the transcript, the implication is clear: The Metals Company's work helps reduce U.S. reliance on China for critical minerals as they navigate the legal pathway to lodge mining applications through the United States. Historical context suggests a partnership between industry and government in deep-sea activities, as evidenced by the CIA operation involving Howard Hughes and President Trump’s administration's facilitation of permitting processes.
Aligns With Us Re-industrialization and Domestic ...
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Geopolitical Dynamics and Competition With China
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Counterarguments
- China's control over critical minerals is a complex issue that may be influenced by global market dynamics, not solely by strategic maneuvering.
- Environmental impacts of mining are a global concern, not exclusive to China, and other countries also contribute to these issues.
- The US and its allies have the capacity to diversify their mineral supply chains and invest in alternative sources, reducing the perceived risk from China's dominance.
- The potential for China to manipulate classification standards may be mitigated by international regulatory bodies and agreements that involve multiple stakeholders.
- Deep-sea mining, while reducing reliance on China, raises its own environmental and ethical concerns that need to be addressed.
- The partnership between the Metals Company and the US government may face regulatory, environmental, and technological challenges that could affect the timeline and efficacy of reducing reliance on China.
- Automation in mining and processing may lead to job displacement, and the transition needs to be managed to avoid negative social impacts.
- International collaborations, like those with Korea Zinc, ma ...
Actionables
- You can diversify your investment portfolio by exploring funds or stocks related to companies outside of China that are involved in critical mineral production or mining innovation. By doing so, you're not only spreading your financial risk but also potentially supporting the growth of a more globally balanced mineral supply chain. For example, look for emerging markets or companies in countries with untapped mineral resources that are beginning to develop their mining sectors.
- Consider purchasing products that use responsibly sourced minerals or that contribute to recycling efforts. This consumer choice can help create demand for minerals sourced from places other than China and support industries that are working on reducing reliance on single-source supply chains. For instance, when buying electronics, look for brands that highlight their commitment to ethical sourcing or that offer recycling programs for their products.
- Engage in conversations with your local representatives about the imp ...
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Enabling US Reindustrialization and Critical Mineral Self-Sufficiency
Gerard Barron and Shawn Ryan discuss how The Metals Company's deep-sea mining project might contribute to US reindustrialization and create self-sufficiency in critical minerals.
Deep Sea Mining by the Metals Company Could Revitalize US Manufacturing
Barron suggests that a reliable and affordable supply of critical minerals from polymetallic nodules could mark the beginning of a new era for the United States by potentially revitalizing manufacturing sectors that have seen a decline.
A Reliable Domestic Source of Critical Minerals Supports the Resurgence of US Industries
The reliable domestic source of critical minerals provided by the nodules could lead to a vibrant re-industrialization, reviving sectors such as shipbuilding, aerospace, and renewable energy where US manufacturing capacity has fallen. Barron speaks about the loss of manufacturing jobs in the US and the need to bring back vital industries for national defense, like shipbuilding.
Sectors Like Shipbuilding, Aerospace, and Renewable Energy Where US Manufacturing Capacity Declined Over Decades
Shawn Ryan indicates that sectors like shipbuilding, once prevalent in the US and crucial for national defense, are showing signs of a potential resurgence due to the current administration's policies. This resurgence is driven by a push to reindustrialize and regain capacities lost over decades.
Company's US Processing and Refining Plans Can Boost Reindustrialization
The Metals Company's attack on reindustrialization includes plans to process and refine critical minerals within the United States, potentially creating jobs and revitalizing several industrial sectors.
US Processing and Refining of Critical Minerals to Create Jobs and Opportunities
Barron discusses the collaborative efforts with entities such as Korea Zinc and Allseas to help build processing and refining infrastructure faster in the US. This infrastructure will create local jobs and opportunities, particularly in converting CareerZinc's expertise into a domestic workforce.
Reduce US Reliance on Imports and Regain Supply Chain Control
Deep-sea mining by the Metals Company aims to reduce US reliance on imported minerals and help the US regain supp ...
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Enabling US Reindustrialization and Critical Mineral Self-Sufficiency
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Counterarguments
- Environmental Concerns: Deep-sea mining could have significant and not yet fully understood impacts on marine ecosystems, which could lead to biodiversity loss and disruption of oceanic carbon sequestration processes.
- Technological and Economic Feasibility: The technology for deep-sea mining is not yet proven at a commercial scale, and the economic viability could be challenged by fluctuating commodity prices and potential regulatory costs.
- International Regulations: There is currently a lack of comprehensive international regulations governing deep-sea mining, which could lead to conflicts over resources and environmental standards.
- Alternative Sources: There may be alternative sources of critical minerals, such as recycling of existing materials or finding more sustainable land-based mining operations, which could mitigate the need for deep-sea mining.
- Dependency Risk: Creating a domestic supply chain for critical minerals does not eliminate dependency risks, as the technologies and expertise required for deep-sea mining and processing might still rely on foreign companies or knowledge.
- Job Creation Claims: The actual number of jobs created by the deep-sea mining industry could be less than projected, especially if the industry becomes highly automated.
- Market Dynamics: The introduction of a new supply of minerals could potentially depress global prices, which might not lead to the desired economic benefits for the US manufacturing sector.
- ...
Actionables
- You can support local industries by purchasing products made with domestically sourced materials, such as those labeled "Made in the USA," which contributes to the growth of US manufacturing and job creation. By choosing these products, you're directly investing in businesses that could benefit from a revitalized supply chain of critical minerals, thus fostering a stronger domestic economy.
- Consider investing in companies that are involved in the domestic production and processing of critical minerals, as this can help accelerate the reindustrialization efforts. Even small-scale investments through platforms that allow for fractional shares or crowd-funded business investments can make a difference, as they provide capital to industries that are essential for reducing import reliance.
- Engage in educational opportunities, su ...
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National Security Implications of Critical Mineral Supply Chains
Gerard Barron and others are highlighting the national security risks associated with the U.S.'s reliance on imported critical minerals and how domestic projects, such as those of The Metals Company, could potentially reduce dependence and strengthen defense.
Securing Critical Minerals Supply: A Us National Security Priority
US Heavily Relies On Imported Nickel, Cobalt, Manganese, At Risk From Adversaries
Barron cautions that the U.S.'s heavy reliance on imported nickel, cobalt, and manganese poses a national security risk. He indicates that the U.S. imports a substantial percentage of cobalt and manganese and almost all its nickel, which is mainly controlled by China. This dependency leaves the U.S. at risk from adversaries who may leverage control over these essential minerals to impact the country’s ability to produce steel and secure its national defense. The CIA's operation to recover warheads underscores the gravity of controlling critical resources, pointing to the strategic importance of materials like polymetallic nodules rich in these minerals.
The Metals Company's Project Can Help the US Reduce Dependency and Strengthen Defense
Barron suggests that The Metals Company's project could help the U.S. reduce its dependency on foreign minerals and ultimately strengthen national defense capabilities. There's implicit evidence from the conversation that the company is aligning with U.S. government priorities to hasten deep-sea mining project approvals and developments. Barron hints at partnership and investment plans in the U.S., which could include infrastructure and potentially lead to domestic industries for processing critical minerals. These developments might not only reduce reliance on imports but also make tangible contributions to GDP growth and job creation.
Critical Mineral Self-Sufficiency's Role in Reindustrialization and National Security
Reviving Us Manufacturing Boosts Global Economic and Technological Competitiveness
Barron also ...
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Counterarguments
- The environmental impact of deep-sea mining is a significant concern, and the long-term ecological consequences are not fully understood.
- Dependence on domestic production could lead to complacency in developing recycling technologies and alternative materials.
- The assumption that domestic production is inherently more secure may not account for internal vulnerabilities, such as natural disasters, labor disputes, or economic downturns.
- The focus on military and defense benefits may overshadow the need for critical minerals in other sectors, such as renewable energy and electronics.
- The potential for job creation in the mining and processing sectors may be offset by job losses in other areas if trade relationships are strained due to reduced imports.
- The geopolitical implications of reducing foreign mineral imports could lead to tensions with current supplying countries, potentially creating new security challenges.
- The argument assumes that the U.S. can become a leading supplier, which may not be feasible given the existing global supply chains and the investments require ...
Actionables
- You can support local mining and mineral processing companies by investing in them through stock purchases or crowdfunding platforms. By becoming a shareholder, even on a small scale, you contribute to the growth and success of domestic industries that are working towards mineral self-sufficiency. For example, if you have a retirement account or an investment app, consider allocating a portion of your portfolio to companies that are involved in the exploration, mining, or processing of critical minerals within the U.S.
- Encourage local manufacturing by prioritizing products made with domestically sourced materials when you shop. Look for labels or certifications that indicate a product uses U.S.-sourced minerals and materials. This can apply to a wide range of products, from electronics to vehicles. By making conscious purchasing decisions, you help increase demand for domestically produced materials, which can stimulate job growth and reindustrialization.
- Educate yourself on the importance o ...
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1-Page Summary- Jared Baron's Background and Deep Sea Mining Industry
- Environmental and Technological Benefits of Deep Sea Mining
- Geopolitical Dynamics and Competition With China
- Enabling US Reindustrialization and Critical Mineral Self-Sufficiency
- National Security Implications of Critical Mineral Supply Chains
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