Kim Perell: Hate Your Job But Don’t Know What to Do Next? Ask Yourself THESE X Questions and Build a Step-by-Step Plan for the Career You ACTUALLY Want
In this episode of On Purpose, Kim Perell and Jay Shetty explore entrepreneurial success strategies, including the Marine Corps' "70% rule" for taking action and the importance of reframing failures as learning experiences. They discuss practical approaches to building support systems, emphasizing the value of personal mentorship and maintaining a balanced network of positive influences.
The conversation delves into concrete business-building tactics, from rapid market testing to effective team development. Perell shares insights on conducting relationship audits and managing professional boundaries, while both hosts address common challenges entrepreneurs face, such as dealing with self-doubt and building effective teams. The discussion includes specific hiring strategies and recommendations for maintaining manageable team structures.
This is a preview of the Shortform summary of the Aug 8, 2025 episode of the On Purpose with Jay Shetty
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1-Page Summary
Mindset and Psychology of Entrepreneurship
In a discussion between Kim Perell and Jay Shetty, they explore how entrepreneurs can develop the right mindset for success. Perell introduces the Marine Corps' "70% rule," suggesting that entrepreneurs should take action when they're 70% ready rather than waiting for perfection. Shetty applies this concept to content creation, encouraging his team to maintain 30% experimental content.
The conversation emphasizes reframing failures as learning opportunities. Perell shares how she transformed her own setbacks into valuable lessons, which she later detailed in her book "Mistakes That Made Me a Millionaire." Both hosts stress the importance of building confidence and overcoming self-doubt, particularly for women entrepreneurs who might feel underqualified.
Building the Right Support System
Perell emphasizes that effective mentorship should be personal and free, suggesting entrepreneurs seek guidance from experienced local business owners rather than celebrity figures. She notes that 93% of self-made millionaires had mentors, underlining the importance of this relationship.
When it comes to building a network, Shetty recommends maintaining a ratio of three positive influences for every negative one. Both hosts stress the importance of assembling a diverse team with complementary skills, with Perell sharing how partnering with a technically skilled CTO enhanced her business.
Iterating and Learning From Mistakes
The hosts advocate for rapid prototyping and quick market testing. Shetty suggests starting small, like writing a blog before attempting a book, while Perell emphasizes the importance of getting a minimal viable product to market quickly. They discuss how successful businesses often pivot multiple times, citing examples like YouTube, Twitter, and Shopify.
Managing Relationships
Perell introduces her practice of conducting annual relationship audits, evaluating which connections energize or drain her. Shetty addresses the challenge of managing family relationships, particularly when loved ones express doubt about entrepreneurial ventures. Both emphasize the importance of setting boundaries to protect professional goals while maintaining personal relationships.
Practical Hiring and Team-Building Strategies
Perell shares specific interview strategies, focusing on questions that reveal candidates' self-awareness and cultural fit. She emphasizes the value of personal connections and referrals in hiring, suggesting that candidates actively leverage their networks. When it comes to team structure, Perell recommends maintaining no more than eight direct reports to ensure effective management and personal connection with team members.
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Counterarguments
- While taking action at 70% readiness can foster agility and learning, it may not be suitable for industries where the cost of failure is high or where safety and compliance are critical.
- Maintaining 30% experimental content could dilute a brand's core message or confuse the audience if not strategically aligned with the brand's values and goals.
- Reframing failures as learning opportunities is important, but it's also crucial to acknowledge and address the emotional impact of failure to prevent burnout and loss of motivation.
- Building confidence is key, but overconfidence can lead to risky decisions and a lack of critical self-reflection.
- While mentorship should ideally be personal and free, paid coaching or consulting can also provide structured and professional guidance that may be lacking in informal relationships.
- Seeking guidance from local business owners is valuable, but insights from a variety of sources, including successful entrepreneurs and thought leaders, can provide a broader perspective.
- A network with a positive-to-negative influence ratio is beneficial, but critical or challenging perspectives can also be valuable to foster resilience and critical thinking.
- A diverse team is advantageous, but diversity must be managed well to avoid conflict and ensure that all team members are aligned with the company's mission.
- Rapid prototyping and quick market testing are useful, but some products or services require longer development cycles to ensure quality and user satisfaction.
- Starting small is practical, but some ventures may require significant upfront investment and development before they can be tested in the market.
- While pivoting can lead to success, frequent pivots without a clear strategy can also lead to brand confusion and loss of customer trust.
- Annual relationship audits can help focus energy, but they may also lead to transactional relationships and a lack of long-term loyalty and support.
- Setting boundaries is necessary, but too rigid boundaries can isolate entrepreneurs from valuable feedback and opportunities.
- Interview questions focused on self-awareness and cultural fit are important, but they should not overshadow the assessment of technical skills and experience necessary for the job.
- Relying on personal connections and referrals in hiring can be beneficial, but it may also lead to a lack of diversity and perpetuate biases.
- Limiting direct reports to eight might enhance management, but it may not be feasible in all organizational structures or scalable as the company grows.
Actionables
- You can embrace imperfection by setting a "70% ready" rule for your projects, where you launch once you've reached that threshold rather than aiming for 100% completion. For example, if you're working on a website for your business, instead of waiting until every single page is fully designed and written, you could go live once the main sections are presentable and functional, then improve and update it over time.
- Develop a habit of incorporating experimental content into your routine by dedicating one day a week to trying out new ideas or formats. If you're a blogger, this could mean posting a different style of content, like a video or podcast, every Friday, to explore new ways of engaging with your audience and to keep your creative juices flowing.
- Create a "failure resume" where you document each setback and list the lessons learned from it. This could be a personal journal or a digital document where, after a project doesn't go as planned, you write down what happened, why it might have happened, and what you can take away from the experience to improve in the future.
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Mindset and Psychology of Entrepreneurship
Through constructive dialogue, Kim Perell and Jay Shetty investigate the psychological landscape of entrepreneurship, focusing on how flexibility, resilience, and passion can substantially transform one's approach to business.
Embrace a Flexible, Growth-Oriented Mindset
Entrepreneurs are encouraged to adopt a mindset that prioritizes passion over skills, as skills can be learned whereas passion is intrinsic.
Don't Wait Until You're Fully Ready - The 70% Rule Helps You Move Forward
Kim Perell talks about the importance of taking action before feeling 100% ready. She references the Marine Corps rule that suggests if you're 70% ready, it's time to move forward. Perell also uses this 70% rule to encourage progression through a balance between analysis and action.
Jay Shetty echoes this sentiment, advising his team that 30% of their content should always be experimental to discover new styles and formats. He questions how to overcome the fear of criticism, informally referring to the concept of releasing work that is 70% complete and learning to progress with it, despite potential judgment.
Reframe Failures and Setbacks As Learning Opportunities
Kim Perell sees missed opportunities, like the board seat she passed up, as learning experiences. She also encourages entrepreneurs to put themselves out there even if they don't feel completely ready, as businesses evolve, and learning occurs during the process.
Jay Shetty credits his art teacher with teaching him to value imperfection in creative endeavors, thus normalizing imperfection and viewing it as a natural part of the creative process. He has learned to be comfortable with failure and appreciates the importance of failing daily to achieve success.
Embrace Mistakes & Positivity In Overcoming Challenges
Kim Perell discusses embracing failure and viewing daily challenges as normal. She notes the importance of responding to setbacks positively and recognizes that while her own family normalized failure, not all families do.
She extends this lesson through her book "Mistakes That Made Me a Millionaire," aiming to help entrepreneurs learn from mistakes and seize setbacks as a chance for extraordinary success.
Build Confidence and Overcome Self-Doubt
T ...
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Mindset and Psychology of Entrepreneurship
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Counterarguments
- While prioritizing passion is important, undervaluing skills can be impractical, as certain entrepreneurial endeavors require a high level of skill from the outset.
- The 70% rule may lead to premature action, resulting in underdeveloped products or services that could damage a brand's reputation.
- Constant experimentation without a clear strategy can lead to confusion among customers and a dilution of the brand identity.
- Not all failures and setbacks can be framed positively, especially when they result in significant financial loss or emotional distress.
- Embracing mistakes is important, but it is also crucial to have a robust system for risk management to prevent avoidable errors.
- While normalizing imperfection is beneficial, maintaining high standards is also necessary for success in certain industries.
- Overcoming fear of failure is important, but a certain level of fear can be a healthy motivator to ensure due diligence and careful planning.
- Building confide ...
Actionables
- You can start a "Passion Project Hour" each week where you dedicate time to a project purely for the joy it brings, regardless of your current skill level. This could be anything from painting, coding a simple app, or writing short stories. The key is to choose something that excites you and commit to regular, uninterrupted time to indulge in it, allowing your passion to drive your learning and improvement.
- Create a "70% Ready" challenge for yourself by setting a goal that you feel only 70% prepared to achieve, such as public speaking, starting a blog, or learning a new language. Begin taking action towards this goal immediately, using the momentum to learn and adapt as you go, rather than waiting to feel fully prepared.
- Develop a "Failure Resume" where you ...
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Building the Right Support System
Kim Perell and Jay Shetty discuss the critical importance of building a support system through mentors, peers, and a well-rounded team for entrepreneurial success.
Finding and Leveraging Mentors
Seek Experienced, Non-famous Individuals For Guidance and Advice
Kim Perell advises seeking personal connections to inspire mentorships, using shared experiences or interests as a common ground. She emphasizes that true mentorship is personal, should not come with a price tag, and should come from someone who genuinely cares. Perell points out that the key to finding a mentor is to actively seek the relationship rather than waiting for it to appear. She advises making a list of potential mentors and actively contacting them.
Perell states that mentors do not have to be famously successful—they can be local business owners with more experience. She mentions that 93% of self-made millionaires had mentors, underscoring mentorship's effectiveness. Jay Shetty echoes the sentiment, suggesting looking for mentors who are only a little ahead rather than seeking celebrity figures.
Cultivating a Network of Supportive Peers
Connect With Like-Minded Entrepreneurs Who Relate To You
Kim Perell and Jay Shetty stress the significance of connecting with people who can relate to your entrepreneurial journey. Perell talks about the comfort of having peers who understand the daily trials of business, emphasizing their advice's value based on shared experiences.
Shetty points out the importance of surrounding oneself with positive individuals, using a ratio of three positive people for every negative influence in your life. He notes the existence of clubs, events, and societies designed to foster su ...
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Building the Right Support System
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Counterarguments
- While personal connections for mentorship are valuable, formal mentorship programs can also offer structured and consistent support that personal connections might not provide.
- Mentorship that is free and from someone who genuinely cares is ideal, but paid mentorship or coaching can also be highly effective if the mentor has a proven track record.
- Actively seeking mentor relationships is important, but it's also beneficial to be open to unexpected mentorship opportunities that may arise organically.
- While mentors don't have to be famous, high-profile mentors can offer unique insights and connections that less well-known individuals might not have.
- The statistic that 93% of self-made millionaires had mentors might not imply causation; correlation does not equal causation, and other factors could contribute to their success.
- Seeking mentors who are only slightly ahead can be limiting; sometimes, guidance from someone many steps ahead can offer a broader perspective and more advanced insights.
- Connecting with like-minded entrepreneurs is valuable, but it's also important to engage with people who think differently to challenge your ideas and promote innovation.
- Maintaining a ratio of three positive people for every negative influence might not be practical or reflective of the complexity of human relationships and the potential value of constructive criticism.
- Utilizing clubs, events, and societies is helpful, but networking should not be limited to these venues; online platforms and ...
Actionables
- Create a "mentorship diary" to track your interactions and growth with mentors, noting down key advice, milestones, and changes in your perspective. This diary will serve as a personal record of your mentorship journey, helping you reflect on the progress and the value added to your life by each mentor.
- Develop a "team-building toolkit" that includes personality tests, skill assessments, and team-building exercises to better understand and complement the strengths and weaknesses of your team members. Use this toolkit during team meetings or retreats to facilitate discussions about roles, responsibilities, and how each member can contribute to the team's success.
- Start a ...
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Iterating and Learning From Mistakes
Kim Perell and Jay Shetty discuss the importance of embracing mistakes and iterating in business, emphasizing that imperfection is a natural part of the path to success.
Prototype and Get Customer Feedback Quickly
Release Imperfect Product; Learn From Market
Perell and Shetty agree that successful people understand that they will learn as they go and do not expect the first version of their product to be perfect. Perell stresses the necessity of getting a product out and receiving customer feedback, noting that market response will likely shape the product's evolution.
Shetty talks about the importance of starting with a prototype or minimum viable product to quickly learn. For instance, he suggests writing a blog post before a book, or conducting Facebook Live interviews before starting a podcast, to gauge engagement and gather feedback.
Perell and Shetty advise dreaming big but starting small, with Perell emphasizing the importance of getting a minimal viable product to market to see if it will sell. She encourages starting with what one has and improving from there, advocating for action over dreaming.
Embrace a Mindset of Continuous Improvement
Adapt and Pivot Rather Than Sticking To the Original Plan
Shetty discusses learning and iterating in business, noting that unlike school, where a project is final, business requires continuous improvement of prototypes based on feedback and market responses. He also suggests that being present and listening to clients is essential to understand their needs, and to pivot the conversation away from prepared presentations if necessary.
Perell adds that it is not necessary to innovate but to iterate on ideas. She believes in the success of investing in people with ideas that have been done before, highlighting that these ideas went on to achieve significant market value.
Both Perell and Shetty emphasize the difference between school and business, noting the business world’s need for continuous improvement and adaptation after the initial release of a product.
Document and Apply Lessons From Past Failures
Learn From Mistakes to Improve Future Decisions
Shetty uses a scene from the movie "The Founder" to illustrate how Ray Kroc persisted through repeated failures, implying the value of adapting from one business idea to another until finding success. Shetty recognizes that having an experimental approach to content creation is important, even if some of it fails because this can lead to discovering successful new formats ...
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Iterating and Learning From Mistakes
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Counterarguments
- While releasing an imperfect product can provide valuable market feedback, it can also damage a brand's reputation if the product is too flawed or if early adopters have a negative experience.
- The emphasis on rapid prototyping and iteration might not be suitable for all industries, especially those with high safety or regulatory standards, where an imperfect product could lead to significant risks.
- The idea that it's not necessary to innovate but to iterate might overlook the potential value and competitive advantage that true innovation can bring to a business.
- The notion that entrepreneurs who have failed are more likely to succeed in future endeavors might not account for the possibility that some individuals may not learn effectively from past failures or may not have the resources to attempt again.
- The concept of pivoting as a path to success may not acknowledge that some businesses may succeed without significant pivots or that some pivots can lead to failure if not executed well.
- The advice to start small and dream big could potentially lead to underestimating the resources and planning required to scale up, whi ...
Actionables
- You can create a feedback loop by starting a simple email survey for your product or service, asking early users specific questions about their experience and what improvements they would like to see. For instance, if you're selling handmade candles, after each purchase, send a follow-up email with a survey link asking about the scent, burn time, packaging, and any suggestions they have.
- Develop a habit of reflective journaling to learn from daily experiences, especially mistakes. At the end of each day, write down at least one thing that didn't go as planned and brainstorm ways to improve it. For example, if a sales pitch didn't land, note what parts of the conversation felt off and come up with alternative approaches or solutions for next time.
- Engage in role-playing exercises with a friend or colleag ...
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Managing Relationships (Personal and Professional)
Managing relationships is essential for both personal happiness and professional success. This means making tough decisions about who to associate with and setting boundaries to prioritize your ambitions.
Audit Your Inner Circle For Negativity
Evaluate Relationships and Distance From Energy Drainers
It’s critical to evaluate personal relationships and recognize those that may be draining energy or fostering negativity. Jay Shetty discusses the challenge entrepreneurs face when dealing with doubt from those closest to them. He notes that family and friends can, sometimes unintentionally, remind entrepreneurs of their past failures, seeding doubt.
Kim Perell practices an annual audit of her inner circle, assigning pluses and minuses to distinguish between those who energize and inspire her and those who bring negativity. She then actively distances herself from the latter, emphasizing the need to be surrounded by people who not only support but also constructively challenge you.
Balance Family/Friend Obligations With Professional Ambitions
Set Boundaries & Priorities to Protect Your Goals
Perell talks about the difficulty of managing relationships, especially with family members who may be energy-drainers. She suggests minimizing time spent with such individuals, a tactic she describes as a game-changer for growth, though it might seem harsh. Moreover, she highlights the importance of instilling work ethic and passion in her children without projecting her own experiences onto them, which underscores the challenge of balancing professional values with family obligations.
Jay Shetty shares insights from his personal life, specifically his mother’s protective instincts that sometimes manifested as fears and insecurities. It's important to balance this protective inst ...
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Managing Relationships (Personal and Professional)
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Counterarguments
- While auditing personal relationships for negativity is beneficial, it's also important to consider that people go through phases and may need support rather than distance during tough times.
- Doubt from close ones can sometimes be a form of constructive criticism that can lead to personal growth and should not always be dismissed.
- An annual audit of one's inner circle might not account for the dynamic nature of relationships and could potentially lead to the premature ending of valuable connections.
- Constantly surrounding oneself with only supportive and challenging individuals may create an echo chamber and reduce exposure to diverse perspectives.
- Minimizing time with energy-draining family members might overlook the complexity of family dynamics and the potential for reconciliation and mutual growth.
- Instilling work ethic in children is important, but it's also crucial to encourage a balanced life that includes play, creativity, and rest.
- Balancing protective instincts with ambition is a nuanced process, and sometimes protectiv ...
Actionables
- Create a "relationship energy" journal to track how you feel after interactions with different people. Note down your emotional state after spending time with friends, family, or colleagues. Over a week or month, review your entries to identify patterns and decide where to invest more time and where to pull back.
- Develop a "challenge network" by inviting a diverse group of acquaintances to monthly brainstorming sessions. These sessions can be informal gatherings where each person presents a challenge they're facing, and the group offers constructive feedback and support, helping you to surround yourself with a mix of supportive and challenging perspectives.
- Implement a "freedom contract" with your childre ...
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Practical Hiring and Team-Building Strategies
Experts Jay Shetty and Kim Perell offer extensive advice on improving hiring and team-building practices to create strong and adaptable teams.
Use Targeted, Thoughtful Interview Questions
Jay Shetty and Kim Perell suggest focusing interviews on more than just skills and looking for candidates who possess passion and coachability, as these traits imply adaptability and the potential for growth.
Assess Candidate's Self-Awareness and Role Fit With Questions
Perell talks about using specific interview questions to assess candidates, focusing on data-driven results regarding their past performance and contributions to company growth. Additionally, she recommends questions that can help gauge a candidate's self-awareness and how they fit the role. For example, she asks what candidates believe the interviewer would learn about them outside of the interview process, along with what their last hiring managers and peers would want to change about them. Perell also inquires about whom candidates admire to determine if their values align with the company's culture. She notes that her book includes types of interview questions designed to assess a candidate's fit and self-awareness thoroughly.
Prioritize Personal Connections and Referrals
Kim Perell argues that relying solely on resumes is inefficient, and she highlights the importance of personal connections in the hiring process. She notes that many hires happen through referrals, suggesting candidates use their networks to stand out and directly reach out to hiring managers or secure a referral within the company.
Perell emphasizes the value of calling references, as it's vital to verify the candidate’s genuine appreciation by previous employers and colleagues. If she receives a recommendation from someone she trusts, the likelihood of considering a candidate increases dramatically. Jay Shetty reinforces that getting a 360-degree view is crucial and ...
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Practical Hiring and Team-Building Strategies
Additional Materials
Counterarguments
- While passion and coachability are important, overemphasizing these traits may lead to undervaluing technical skills and experience that are crucial for certain roles.
- Specific interview questions can help assess a candidate's self-awareness and role fit, but they may not always accurately predict job performance or cultural fit.
- Relying heavily on personal connections and referrals can introduce bias and limit diversity in the hiring process, potentially overlooking qualified candidates who lack such connections.
- Calling references is useful, but it can sometimes yield biased or non-candid feedback, as ...
Actionables
- Develop a personal growth plan by identifying skills and qualities you admire in others and setting goals to cultivate them in yourself. This can help you become more adaptable and growth-oriented, similar to what employers look for in candidates. For example, if you admire a colleague's ability to handle stress, you might set a goal to practice mindfulness daily or learn stress management techniques.
- Create a "connection journal" where you document interactions with your network, noting who might be a good reference or connection for future opportunities. This can help you maintain personal connections and be mindful of the value each person brings to your network. For instance, after a coffee meeting with a mentor, jot down key advice they gave you and how they could potentially help in your career.
- Conduct a self-assessment to evaluate your alignment with your current role and ...
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