Podcasts > The Peter Attia Drive > #354 – What the dying can teach us about living well: lessons on life and reflections on mortality | BJ Miller, M.D. and Bridget Sumser, L.C.S.W.

#354 – What the dying can teach us about living well: lessons on life and reflections on mortality | BJ Miller, M.D. and Bridget Sumser, L.C.S.W.

By Peter Attia, MD

In this episode of The Peter Attia Drive, BJ Miller, M.D. and Bridget Sumser, L.C.S.W. discuss what happens during the dying process and how the healthcare system approaches end-of-life care. They explain the differences between palliative care and hospice services, while addressing the current limitations in home hospice care and the challenges families face when caring for dying loved ones.

The conversation explores how suffering extends beyond physical pain to include emotional and spiritual aspects of death. Miller and Sumser share insights from their work with dying patients, including common regrets about relationships and unexpressed emotions. They describe how accepting mortality and finding meaning in simple experiences can help people live more fulfilling lives, focusing on emotional connections rather than material accomplishments.

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#354 – What the dying can teach us about living well: lessons on life and reflections on mortality | BJ Miller, M.D. and Bridget Sumser, L.C.S.W.

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#354 – What the dying can teach us about living well: lessons on life and reflections on mortality | BJ Miller, M.D. and Bridget Sumser, L.C.S.W.

1-Page Summary

Dying Process and Experience: Physiological and Emotional Changes

In this podcast segment, BJ Miller, Peter Attia, and Bridget Sumser explore the physical and emotional aspects of dying. Miller explains that as death approaches, the body undergoes a natural shutdown process, with organ systems ceasing to function in a non-linear pattern. This often includes altered mental states and delirium, which Miller emphasizes should be carefully understood by families to avoid misinterpreting patients' behaviors.

Palliative and Hospice Care in End-of-life and Healthcare System Limitations

The discussion clarifies the distinction between palliative care and hospice services. While palliative care focuses on quality of life alongside other treatments, hospice specifically provides comfort care in the final months of life. Sumser emphasizes that quality of life is individually defined, with care tailored to each person's needs.

The experts highlight significant challenges in the healthcare system, particularly in home hospice care. Miller and Sumser point out that families often bear a heavy burden due to limited support and high costs. They also note that many patients enter hospice too late, partly due to cultural aversion to mortality discussions.

Suffering's Nature and the Role of Emotional and Spiritual Awareness

Miller suggests that suffering extends beyond physical pain, encompassing threats to identity and sense of reality. Sumser adds that once physical symptoms are managed, the focus shifts to addressing emotional, existential, and spiritual needs. Both experts emphasize the importance of self-reflection and awareness in facing death.

The discussion reveals how connection to self, environment, and others proves vital in end-of-life experiences. Miller notes that accepting uncertainty and learning to let go are crucial elements in preparing for a peaceful death.

Lessons and Insights From Dying Patients

According to Miller, dying patients often express regrets about not being true to themselves or their relationships, rather than lamenting unaccomplished tasks. Common regrets include unexpressed love and unsought forgiveness.

Sumser emphasizes that meaning can be found in simple experiences, such as watching the moon from one's bed. Miller adds that accepting fear and regret helps people live more present lives, steering away from materialism toward emotional and relational growth.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Actionables

  • Create a personal end-of-life plan to clarify your wishes and alleviate the burden on family members. Start by writing down your preferences for medical care, including palliative and hospice care options, and discuss these with your loved ones. This can include your thoughts on resuscitation, organ donation, and where you would like to spend your final days. Make sure to legally document your decisions through advance directives or living wills.
  • Develop a "Life Reflection Journal" to explore and document your values, relationships, and experiences. Dedicate time each week to write about your life's meaningful moments, relationships you cherish, and any regrets or fears you have. This practice can help you identify what is most important to you, leading to a more present and fulfilling life.
  • Engage in regular conversations with loved ones about mortality to normalize the topic and share your end-of-life care preferences. Set aside a time during family gatherings or intimate moments to openly discuss each other's thoughts and feelings about death, fears, and the type of care you would want in your final months. This can help ensure that when the time comes, your family is prepared and your wishes are respected.

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#354 – What the dying can teach us about living well: lessons on life and reflections on mortality | BJ Miller, M.D. and Bridget Sumser, L.C.S.W.

Dying Process and Experience: Physiological and Emotional Changes

The physiological and psychological landscape of dying is explored in this podcast segment, as BJ Miller, Peter Attia, and Bridget Sumser discuss the body's natural shutdown in the face of death and the complexities of the emotional experience associated with dying.

The Body's Natural Shutdown Process as Death Approaches

Body Systems Shut Down Preparing For Death

BJ Miller articulates the physiological changes that happen as the body prepares to die, emphasizing this is a natural process. He mentions that intervention often occurs during the natural shutdown of the body, a pathway shared by various causes of death such as cancer, heart disease, and neurodegenerative diseases. Miller notes that this includes the organ systems shutting down in a non-linear pattern, with kidneys ceasing to function, prompting a buildup of toxic metabolites leading to reduced urine output.

Delirium and Altered Mental State Near End of Life Need Careful Understanding

As the physiological body systems shut down, the resulting altered mental states, including delirium, need careful attention. Miller points out the commonality of such mental status changes toward the end of life, where confusion and disorientation are typical. Delirium, with hyperactive and hypoactive variants, can often be overlooked, especially in its quieter hypoactive form. Families and loved ones are urged to recognize delirium to avoid misinterpreting a patient's words or behavior. This altered consciousness is managed with careful treatment in both hospice and ICU settings.

The Emotional and Existential Challenges Of Facing Death

Dying Process Can Threaten Identity and Reality Through Fear, Grief, and Uncertainty

Peter Attia questions how connected and cognizant patients can remain during their final days, given symptom constraints, medication load, and states of delirium. Bridget Sumser adds that connection can still occur, such as through storytelling or physical touch, even when ...

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Dying Process and Experience: Physiological and Emotional Changes

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • In the dying process, organ systems shutting down do not always cease in a predictable, step-by-step manner. Instead, different systems may fail at varying rates and times. This non-linear pattern can lead to complexities in managing the physiological changes that occur as the body prepares for death. Understanding this non-linear shutdown can help healthcare providers anticipate and address the evolving needs of the patient in their final stages.
  • When the kidneys stop functioning, they are unable to filter waste products from the blood effectively. This can lead to a buildup of toxic substances, known as metabolites, in the body. Without proper kidney function, these waste products accumulate and can cause harm to the body's overall health. This buildup of toxic metabolites is a significant concern in the context of the body's natural shutdown process as death approaches.
  • In the context of delirium, hyperactive delirium involves symptoms like agitation, restlessness, and hallucinations, while hypoactive delirium presents with symptoms like lethargy, reduced responsiveness, and slowed movements. These two variants represent different behavioral manifestations of delirium and can occur in patients nearing the end of life. Recognizing and managing both hyperactive and hypoactive delirium is crucial in providing appropriate care for individuals experiencing these altered mental states.
  • Recognizing delirium in patients near the end of life is crucial as it can manifest as altered mental states like confusion and disorientation. Delirium, which can be hyperactive or hypoactive, is common but can be easily overlooked, especially in its quieter form. Identifying delirium helps prevent misinterpretation of a patient's words or behavi ...

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#354 – What the dying can teach us about living well: lessons on life and reflections on mortality | BJ Miller, M.D. and Bridget Sumser, L.C.S.W.

Palliative and Hospice Care in End-of-life and Healthcare System Limitations

The importance of palliative and hospice care, and the systemic challenges these services face within the healthcare system, come to light through conversations with experts BJ Miller, Bridget Sumser, and Peter Attia.

Differences and Overlap Between Palliative Care and Hospice

Peter Attia and Bridget Sumser discuss distinguishing between palliative care and hospice, with palliative care focusing on quality of life and hospice providing end-of-life comfort.

Palliative Care Emphasizes Quality of Life; Hospice Provides End-of-life Comfort

Palliative care is a medical specialty aimed at patients with a serious illness, focusing on symptom treatment and quality of life improvement. It can be provided alongside other therapies without the immediate prospect of death. In contrast, hospice is a subset of palliative care, typically reserved for the final months of life where curative treatments are no longer pursued. Palliative care, seen as "whole person care," addresses a variety of needs from pain management to emotional support. Bridget Sumser stresses that quality of life is defined by the individual and that palliative care is designed to meet each person's unique needs.

Misconceptions Cause Patients and Families to Delay or Avoid Palliative and Hospice Care

Misconceptions about palliative care often cause patients and families to delay seeking services. Many equate it with giving up on treatment or preparing for imminent death. However, once the true nature of palliative care is understood, its value is typically recognized. BJ Miller underlines the importance of changing terms like "DNR" to "A&D" to focus on the care provided rather than what is not being done. These misunderstandings could contribute to underutilization of palliative and hospice care, despite their valuable focus on the quality of life.

Systemic Challenges In Providing Comprehensive End-of-life Support

Hospice Care at Home Lacks Support, Burdening Families

Home hospice care, where expert teams offer intermittent support, places a significant burden on families due to the minimal availability of full-time in-home support and the costliness of out-of-pocket care. Many patients have a preference to die at home, but the reality of care at home can be burdensome and may lead to family burnout.

Healthcare Lacks Early Discussions on Mortality and Dying Preferences

There's a critical opportunity for earlier engagement around mortality conversations that is often missed in the healthcare system. BJ Miller mentions a movement to introduce th ...

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Palliative and Hospice Care in End-of-life and Healthcare System Limitations

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Palliative care focuses on improving the quality of life for patients with serious illnesses, providing symptom management and support alongside curative treatments. Hospice care, a subset of palliative care, is typically reserved for patients in the final months of life when curative treatments are no longer pursued, emphasizing comfort and quality of life in the end-of-life stage. Both types of care aim to address the physical, emotional, and spiritual needs of patients and their families, but hospice care is specifically tailored for those nearing the end of life.
  • Misconceptions about palliative care often stem from equating it with giving up on treatment or preparing for imminent death. However, palliative care focuses on improving quality of life for patients with serious illnesses and can be provided alongside other therapies. Understanding the true nature of palliative care can help dispel these misconceptions and highlight its value in enhancing the overall well-being of individuals facing challenging health circumstances.
  • Home hospice care presents challenges due to the limited availability of full-time in-home support, leading to significant burdens on families. The costliness of out-of-pocket care can also strain families providing home hospice support. Patients often prefer to receive end-of-life care at home, but the lack of comprehensive support services can result in family burnout. The challenges of home hospice care highlight the need for improved resources and support systems to alleviate the burdens faced by families caring for their loved ones in this setting.
  • In healthcare, lack of early discussions on mortality and dying preferences means that conversations about end-of-life care and preferences often happen late or not at all. This delay can lead to inadequate planning, increased suffering, and challenges in providing appropriate care. Initiating these discussions sooner can help patients and families make informed decisions and receive the support they need as they approach the end of life. Early engagement around mortality can improve the quality of care and ensure that patients' preferences are respected.
  • In healthcare, the separation of medical and social services refers to the distinct treatment of physical health issues by medical professionals and the management of social and emotional needs by social service providers. This division can lead to fragmented care for patients, as medical interventions may not always address the broader social determinants impacting health outcomes. Integrating these services can enhance patient care by addressing both medical and social aspects of well-being comprehensively.
  • Underutilization of advanced directives refers to the low frequency with which individuals create and use these legal documents to outline their healthcare preferences in case they become unable to communicate. Advanced directives, such as livi ...

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#354 – What the dying can teach us about living well: lessons on life and reflections on mortality | BJ Miller, M.D. and Bridget Sumser, L.C.S.W.

Suffering's Nature and the Role of Emotional and Spiritual Awareness In Facing Death

The discussion with BJ Miller and Bridget Sumser focuses on the nature of suffering and the importance of emotional and spiritual awareness in facing death.

Suffering Goes Beyond Just Physical Pain

The conversation highlights that suffering encompasses much more than physical discomfort.

Suffering Can Threaten Identity, Self, and Reality, Even With Managed Physical Pain

BJ Miller suggests that modern life has potentially induced more awareness of pain by providing solutions for discomfort, contrasting this to the past when people may have lived closer to pain and death. Sumser touches on the emotional and existential challenges that patients face when ill, not just physical pain. Suffering threatens one's identity and sense of reality. This suffering can stem from various sources, such as delirium or the mourning of the impending loss of life, which impacts one’s sense of self. Sumser discusses patients' ability to adapt, even in dire circumstances like Alzheimer's, suggesting that outcomes may not be as dreadful as anticipated.

Crucial Aspects: Emotional, Existential, and Spiritual Wellbeing

The importance of emotional and relational experiences at the end of life, especially for spouses or care partners, is emphasized. Miller notes the adaptability of younger individuals to their impending death—a reflection of how suffering impacts self and expectations. The role of palliative care in managing symptoms is acknowledged, yet Sumser and Miller indicate that suffering involves more than symptom relief; it includes emotional, existential, and spiritual dimensions.

Cultivate Awareness and Acceptance to Face Death With Clarity

A deeper understanding and acceptance of one's condition can help ease the end-of-life transition.

Self-Reflection and Confronting Fears, Regrets, and Beliefs Empower More Peaceful Death

Sumser and Miller suggest that Western individualistic approaches to suffering might be in conflict with a wider perspective that includes the family or support system. Sumser describes the ability to address suffering related to patients' spiritual and existential worries once physical symptoms are managed. Sumser and Miller see the "real work" in care to begin once physical comfort allows for the addressing of emotional, existential, and spiritual needs. They argue that this deeper work drastically influences the experience of suffering. Sumser speaks about the value of staying curious and receptive, emphasizing the development of self-reflection and awareness to face reality and fears. They recommend confronting one’s fears, regrets, and beliefs to allow for a more peaceful death.

Forgiveness, Connection, and Embracing Uncertainty Ease End-of-life Transition

Sumser and Miller discuss the importance of connection to self, environment, and others as v ...

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Suffering's Nature and the Role of Emotional and Spiritual Awareness In Facing Death

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While suffering does encompass more than physical discomfort, some argue that modern medicine's focus on physical symptoms is due to their measurable and treatable nature, whereas emotional and existential issues are more subjective and challenging to address.
  • The idea that modern life increases awareness of pain could be countered by the argument that it also provides more distractions from pain, such as entertainment and social media.
  • The notion that suffering threatens one's identity and sense of reality might be contested by those who believe that suffering can also strengthen identity and clarify reality for some individuals.
  • The adaptability of patients in dire circumstances like Alzheimer's is not universal, and some may experience significant distress and a diminished quality of life.
  • The emphasis on emotional, existential, and spiritual dimensions might be criticized for potentially overlooking the primary importance of physical comfort for some patients.
  • The importance of emotional and relational experiences at the end of life could be seen as less critical to those who prioritize autonomy and personal choice over relational connections.
  • The adaptability of younger individuals to impending death might not be consistent across all cases, as individual experiences can vary greatly.
  • The role of palliative care in managing symptoms is sometimes criticized for not being accessible to all due to socioeconomic factors or healthcare disparities.
  • The idea that Western individualistic approaches to suffering conflict with wider perspectives might be challenged by those who see value in individualism for personal empowerment and self-determination.
  • The notion that the "real work" in care begins after physical comfort is achieved could be criticized for undervaluing the ongoing and complex nature of symptom management.
  • The recommendation to confront fears, regrets, and beliefs for a more peaceful death may not resonate with everyone, as some may find peace throu ...

Actionables

  • Create a daily "emotional inventory" journal to explore and acknowledge the non-physical aspects of your well-being. Each day, write down any emotional or existential feelings you experience, such as anxiety, loneliness, or a sense of purposelessness. This practice can help you become more aware of the emotional and existential dimensions of your life, fostering a deeper understanding of your personal suffering and resilience.
  • Develop a "connection ritual" to enhance your sense of interconnectivity with others. This could be as simple as sending a thoughtful message to a different friend or family member each day or volunteering for a cause that resonates with you. By actively seeking to connect with others, you can improve your emotional and existential well-being, even with people you don't know well.
  • Engage in a weekly "uncertainty embrace" exercise where you deliberately put yourself ...

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#354 – What the dying can teach us about living well: lessons on life and reflections on mortality | BJ Miller, M.D. and Bridget Sumser, L.C.S.W.

Lessons and Insights From Dying Patients: Common Regrets and Life Perspectives

BJ Miller, Bridget Sumser, and Peter Attia discuss end-of-life regrets, life lessons, and how facing mortality changes perspectives on what's important.

Dying Regrets Rooted In Unfulfilled Needs

The conversation reveals that common regrets and insights from the dying focus on emotional fulfilment rather than unaccomplished tasks.

Regrets Stem From Not Being True to Oneself or Relationships, Not Unaccomplished Tasks

BJ Miller states that common regrets shared by dying people often pertain to not allowing themselves to feel or be true to what they felt. These regrets are due to a separation between themselves and their true feelings or between themselves and loved ones, often due to shame. Miller observes that acknowledgments of feelings towards the end can defang fear and allow for reconciliation.

Dying Often Regret Not Expressing Love, Seeking Forgiveness, or Reconciling

The insights from those nearing the end of life include regrets over not expressing love or seeking forgiveness. Miller suggests that hindsight magnifies the artificial wedges placed between individuals and others, highlighting missed opportunities for connection and reconciliation. Emphasizing the importance of emotional expressions like love, forgiveness, and gratitude, Miller indicates these sentiments transcend cultural differences and remain significant for those facing mortality.

Life Lessons From the Dying

Dying patients offer profound insights about embracing uncertainty and prioritizing emotional, spiritual, and relational aspects over material accomplishments.

Embracing Mortality and Uncertainty Frees People to Be Present and Honest

By embracing mortality and accepting the uncertainties of life, people can become present and honest. BJ Miller’s near-death experience taught him the importance of being in the moment. Similarly, Bridget Sumser stresses the significance of focusing on valuable experiences rather than avoiding unwanted interventions. Sumser speaks about adapting one's expectations under new circumstances to find satisfaction, highlighting that meaning can be found in simple experiences, like observing the moon from one's bed.

Dying Clarifies Focus on Emotional, Spiritual, and Relational Growth Over Material Accomplishments

Miller and Sumser both emphasize that dying brings into focus the importance of emotional, spiritual, and relational concerns. For instance, in crises, patients often prioritize being emotionally present and maintaining relationships, such as fulfilling parental roles, over material achievements. Conversations about death guide individuals to focus on reconciliation and emotional experiences, and not causing suffering. Principles from Buddhism around meditation and peace ...

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Lessons and Insights From Dying Patients: Common Regrets and Life Perspectives

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While emotional fulfillment is important, some individuals may genuinely prioritize career or personal achievements and not regret this focus at the end of life.
  • It's possible to be true to oneself and still have regrets about unaccomplished tasks if those tasks were aligned with one's values and self-concept.
  • Some individuals may find that expressing love or seeking forgiveness is not a source of regret for them, possibly due to complex personal histories or relationships.
  • Embracing mortality can be freeing for some, but others may find meaning and motivation in the denial of mortality or by focusing on legacy-building.
  • The focus on emotional, spiritual, and relational growth over material accomplishments may not resonate with everyone; some may find fulfillment in material success or believe that material accomplishments contribute to their emotional and relational well-being.
  • Discussing mortality might not always influence people to steer away from materia ...

Actionables

  • Start a "Life Reflection Journal" where you dedicate time each week to write about your relationships, feelings, and experiences, focusing on emotional fulfillment rather than tasks or achievements. This practice encourages you to consider what truly matters to you and can lead to more authentic interactions with others. For example, you might reflect on a conversation with a friend and realize you want to express more gratitude in your relationships.
  • Create a "Memento Box" for keepsakes that represent meaningful relationships and experiences, rather than material accomplishments. This could be letters, photos, or small items that remind you of special moments. By curating this collection, you're reminded to prioritize and nurture these connections. When feeling caught up in material pursuits, looking through your Memento Box can help realign your focus on the non-material aspects of life.
  • Implem ...

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