564. The Moral of the Story with JBP: Hansel & Gretel
In this episode of The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast, Peterson examines the classic fairy tale of Hansel and Gretel, exploring the complex family dynamics and moral lessons within the story. He analyzes how the tale portrays parental selfishness through the woodcutter's weakness and the stepmother's manipulation, while also examining the symbolic meaning of the witch's candy house as a representation of deceptive maternal care.
The discussion delves into how Hansel and Gretel's journey represents the development of independence and maturity in children. Peterson explores the significance of their survival strategies, from Hansel's trail-marking to Gretel's cleverness in defeating the witch, and examines how their discovery of treasure and successful return home symbolize their transformation from vulnerable children to self-reliant individuals.
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Family Dynamics: Parents vs Children
The story of Hansel and Gretel presents a stark contrast between the selfish behavior of parents and the mature conduct of their children. The woodcutter, influenced by his wife, abandons his children in the forest, prioritizing his own survival over their welfare. The stepmother's manipulation and false compassion exemplify the darker aspects of parental behavior. Jordan Peterson notes that such malevolent feelings from non-biological parents can lead to terrible actions against children.
Selfishness, Deception, Perversion of Virtue
The tale reveals how selfishness in parenting can be disguised as concern. While the woodcutter feels regret, he lacks the courage to oppose his wife's cruel plans. The stepmother's deceptive behavior is particularly evident in her false display of care while plotting to abandon the children. Similarly, the witch's candy house serves as a symbolic trap, which Jordan Peterson interprets as maternal hypersolicitude masking malevolent intentions.
Importance of Independence, Maturity, Seeing Through False Facades
Hansel and Gretel demonstrate remarkable resilience and resourcefulness throughout their ordeal. Hansel's strategic thinking shows in his use of pebbles and breadcrumbs to mark their path, while Gretel's quick thinking enables her to outsmart the witch and save both herself and her brother. The treasure they find in the witch's house symbolizes their newfound independence and self-reliance. Their journey back home, navigating obstacles with ingenuity, represents their growth from vulnerable children to capable individuals who can ensure their own survival.
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Counterarguments
- The woodcutter's actions could be interpreted as a tragic choice made under extreme duress, rather than simple selfishness.
- The stepmother's behavior might reflect the harsh realities and difficult decisions faced by families in times of scarcity, rather than pure malevolence.
- It could be argued that the tale is a product of its time and culture, and may not accurately represent the complexities of step-parent and child relationships in modern contexts.
- The witch's candy house could also be seen as a warning against the dangers of temptation and greed, rather than an indictment of maternal figures.
- Hansel and Gretel's actions, while resourceful, could also be seen as a narrative device to teach children the virtues of cleverness and bravery, rather than a realistic portrayal of child behavior.
- The treasure in the witch's house might symbolize the rewards of bravery and cleverness, rather than independence and self-reliance.
- The story could be viewed as a cautionary tale with moral lessons, rather than a literal commentary on family dynamics and parenting.
Actionables
- Reflect on your decision-making by journaling about times when you've faced moral dilemmas, focusing on the choices you made and their impact on others. This exercise can help you understand your motivations and identify instances where you might have prioritized your needs over others', similar to the woodcutter's actions. For example, write about a tough decision at work and how it affected your colleagues, then consider alternative choices and their potential outcomes.
- Practice recognizing and responding to manipulative behavior by role-playing scenarios with a friend where one of you acts with hidden intentions. This can sharpen your ability to detect insincerity and prepare you to deal with it effectively. You might simulate a situation where one person is trying to persuade the other to do something against their interest, then discuss the cues that revealed the manipulation.
- Develop strategic thinking skills by playing board games that require planning and foresight, such as chess or Settlers of Catan. These games can enhance your ability to think ahead and make decisions based on potential future scenarios, much like Hansel's use of pebbles and breadcrumbs. As you play, consciously reflect on your strategies and how they could apply to real-life situations, like budgeting or career planning.
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Family Dynamics: Parents vs Children
Parents - The Woodcutter and Wife - Show Selfish, Weak, and Deceitful Behavior Endangering Their Children
The woodcutter in the story displays significant selfishness and weakness, prioritizing his and his wife's hunger over the welfare of his own children. He agrees to his wife's plan to abandon the children in the forest, showcasing his backward priorities and lack of paternal care.
Woodcutter, Persuaded by Wife, Prioritizes Needs Over Children, Abandons Them In Forest
Under the influence of his wife, the woodcutter is convinced to abandon his children under the pretense of fetching wood in the forest. It's described as cutting him to the heart to leave his children alone, but he does little to prevent this betrayal, succumbing to his wife's manipulation.
Cruel, Selfish, Deceptive Stepmother Manipulates the Woodcutter With False Compassion
The stepmother exhibits selfish and cruel behavior, manipulating her husband into abandoning their children. Her cruelty and selfishness are reinforced by her insistence that they would all die of hunger otherwise. Jordan Peterson expands on this theme, explaining how a non-biological parent may harbor malevolent feelings toward their spouse's children, leading to terrible actions.
Children's Mat ...
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Family Dynamics: Parents vs Children
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Counterarguments
- The woodcutter's decision to abandon his children could be seen as a desperate act of survival rather than pure selfishness, given the context of extreme poverty and famine.
- The woodcutter's weakness might be interpreted as a complex human response to an impossible situation, where he is torn between the survival of his wife and himself and the well-being of his children.
- The stepmother's actions, while cruel, could be understood within the historical context of scarce resources, where stepparents might have faced real dilemmas about resource ...
Actionables
- Reflect on decision-making by journaling about a recent tough choice, focusing on the values and priorities that guided you. This can help you understand your own decision-making process and ensure that your actions align with your core values. For example, if you had to choose between working late or attending a family event, write down the factors that influenced your decision and how you felt about the outcome.
- Practice assertiveness in conversations by setting a weekly goal to express your needs or opinions in situations where you might typically stay silent. This can strengthen your ability to maintain your stance in the face of persuasion. Start with low-stakes situations, like choosing a restaurant with friends, and gradually work up to more significant discussions, such as negotiating work responsibilities.
- Create a 'teamwork pact' with a ...
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Selfishness, Deception, Perversion of Virtue
The story of Hansel and Gretel serves as a cautionary tale about the consequences of selfishness, the inherent dangers of deception, and the perversion of virtue, as seen in the behavior of the stepmother and the evil witch.
Selfish Parenting Hidden Behind Concern Facade
The story reveals the subtle selfishness within the act of parenting from the woodcutter and his wife and how it is deceptively veiled as concern.
Woodcutter Regrets but Fears Standing Up To Wife
The woodcutter in the story feels a palpable regret for having to leave his children in the forest but is too fear-stricken to resist his wife's insistence. Though his regret is implied, his actions are couched in a facade of benevolence, such as starting a fire for the children so they wouldn't be cold—likely a means to deflect from his true intention of abandonment. Despite his heart being heavy with the idea of sharing the last mouthful with his children, he is overpowered by his wife's resolve and does not voice his concerns.
Stepmother's Pretense of Care Hides Her Plan to Abandon and Devour Children
The stepmother's deceptive behavior is evident, with her cruel intentions to abandon the children in the forest under the guise of maternal care. She instructs the children to rest by a fire, feigning concern for their comfort, while plotting to leave them there. Her pretense unravels when she fails to return for them, revealing her plan that may extend to consuming the children.
Story Cautions Against Superficial Virtue Signaling and Urges Examining True Intentions
The tale of Hansel and Gretel is also a warning to look beyond superficial displays of kindness to discern the real intentions that may lie beneath.
Candy House Lures Children As a Trap by the Evil Witch, Symbolizing Perverted Maternal Care
The witch, acting as a twisted maternal figure, presen ...
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Selfishness, Deception, Perversion of Virtue
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Counterarguments
- The woodcutter's actions could be interpreted as a result of extreme poverty and desperation rather than pure selfishness.
- The stepmother's intentions might reflect the harsh realities and difficult choices faced in times of scarcity, rather than pure evil.
- The story could be seen as a reflection of the harsh realities of life in the past, rather than a moral lesson on virtue and deception.
- The witch's character might be understood as a metaphor for the dangers of the world, rather than a perversion of maternal care.
- The tale could also be viewed as a story of survival and resourcefulness of the children, rather than focusing solely on the negative traits of the adults.
- The narrative might be seen as emphasizing the resilience and cleverness of Hansel and Gretel, rather than just serving as a caution again ...
Actionables
- Reflect on your own actions by keeping a daily 'intention journal' to ensure your motives align with your values. At the end of each day, write down key decisions you made and what drove those decisions. This practice will help you become more self-aware and prevent superficial virtue signaling by encouraging you to consider whether your actions are truly virtuous or just for show.
- Start a 'candy house' savings jar for a cause you care about to transform the symbol of deception into one of genuine care. Each time you encounter a situation where you feel you might be acting out of selfishness or deceit, contribute to the jar. When it's full, donate the money to a charity that exemplifies true virtue, turning a negative impulse into a positive action.
- Role-play scenarios with f ...
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Importance of Independence, Maturity, Seeing Through False Facades
The story of Hansel and Gretel is a rich source of insights into the themes of independence, maturity, and the ability to see through deceptive appearances. Often seen as a simple fairy tale, it provides deep messages about personal growth and resilience against adversity.
Hansel and Gretel: Resilient, Resourceful, and Perceptive
Hansel's Strategy and Sacrifice Lead Them Home
Hansel embodies the qualities of someone capable of navigating dangerous situations. He gathers pebbles to mark the path home, sacrificing his meal to leave breadcrumb trails, despite the risk of hunger. His quick thinking and selflessness show his maturity and willingness to ensure a secure future for him and his sister, Gretel. Even though his breadcrumb strategy fails due to birds eating the crumbs, his actions demonstrate his foresight and problem-solving abilities.
Hansel's self-sufficiency becomes evident as he tricks the witch by using a bone to pretend it is his finger, thus misleading her and preventing himself from becoming her feast. Previously, Hansel had used pebbles to guide their way home, and this resourcefulness is echoed later when he and Gretel find pearls, symbolizing a matured capability to navigate back from adventures.
Gretel's Bravery Outsmarts Witch
Gretel is portrayed as brave and perceptive. She recognizes the witch's evil intent and cleverly saves both her brother and herself. Gretel's quick thinking, as the witch attempts to lure her into the oven, showcases her intelligence—she feigns ignorance, asking for a demonstration, only to push the witch inside, thus saving them both. Her immediate thought is to rescue Hansel, which further underlines her resourcefulness.
After defeating the witch, the siblings find chests filled with pearls and jewels. This moment is a metaphorical representation of the greatest treasure children can find: the means to secure mature independence.
Children's Maturity Overcomes Dangers of Unfit Parents
Treasure in Witch's House Symbolizes Independent Self-Reliance Riches
The narrative of Hansel and Gretel not only recounts the tale of two children outsmarting a witch but also depicts ...
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Counterarguments
- The reliance on magical elements like pebbles that glow or a duck that helps them cross a body of water might undermine the theme of self-reliance, as these are external aids rather than purely their own resourcefulness.
- The story could be interpreted as reinforcing gender stereotypes, with Hansel taking the lead in devising plans and Gretel's bravery only coming to the forefront when Hansel is incapacitated.
- The narrative may oversimplify the process of gaining independence and maturity, as it is depicted as a result of a single, albeit significant, life event rather than a gradual process.
- The portrayal of the witch as an evil figure could be seen as a one-dimensional representation of antagonists or 'otherness' in fairy tales, lacking nuance and depth.
- The idea that defeating a single external adversary equates to achieving maturity and independence might not acknowledge the ongoing, multifaceted challenges of personal growth.
- The treasure in the witch's house as a symbol of independence could be critiqued for equating material wealth with personal growth and self-reliance. ...
Actionables
- You can enhance your problem-solving skills by practicing breadcrumb strategies in everyday life, like leaving yourself notes or setting reminders for tasks you need to return to later. For example, if you're working on a complex project, break it down into smaller tasks and leave a 'breadcrumb' by writing a summary of where you left off, which will help you pick up the task more easily next time.
- Boost your courage and resourcefulness by engaging in role-playing games that simulate challenging scenarios. Create a game with friends or family where each person must devise creative solutions to escape from a metaphorical 'witch's house', encouraging quick thinking and bravery similar to Gretel's.
- Cultivate your ability to recognize and seize opportunit ...
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