558. The Meaning Of: Snow White
In this episode of The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast, Peterson analyzes the fairy tale of Snow White, exploring the psychological and evolutionary dynamics at play in the story. He examines the Evil Queen's character through the lens of pride and envy, drawing parallels between her behavior and patterns observed in female social hierarchies among primates.
Peterson delves into the symbolic significance of the tale's key elements, from the dwarfs' representation of productive masculinity to the prince's role in Snow White's protection. The analysis extends beyond the surface narrative to address universal themes about power dynamics, competition, and fertility suppression, connecting these ancient storytelling elements to modern social behaviors and relationships.
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The Psychology and Motivations of the Evil Queen
Jordan Peterson analyzes the Evil Queen's character through the lens of pride and envy. He explains that the queen's identity is deeply rooted in her beauty and youth, leading to destructive behavior when these attributes are threatened. When her enchanted mirror reveals Snow White's superior beauty, the queen's jealousy drives her to plot against her own daughter. Peterson compares her pride to Lucifer's downfall, noting how she inverts the maternal role from nurturing to consuming, ultimately leading to her own destruction.
Dominant and Subordinate Females in Social Hierarchies
Peterson draws fascinating parallels between the Evil Queen archetype and behavior observed in higher-status female primates. He explains how dominant females often suppress subordinates' fertility through social stress, gossip, and exclusion. This pattern extends to modern contexts, where Peterson notes that powerful women may indirectly influence younger women's reproductive choices through workplace expectations and social pressure.
Dwarfs and Prince's Role In Protecting Snow White
In Peterson's analysis, the dwarfs represent ordinary, productive masculinity, offering Snow White protection in exchange for domestic help. While they provide initial safety, their protective capacity has limits. The prince, however, represents a higher form of masculinity, seeking an individualized relationship with Snow White. Peterson suggests that the dwarfs' respectful treatment of Snow White sets the stage for the prince's arrival and their eventual marriage, which ultimately defeats the Evil Queen's schemes.
Symbolic Meaning and Significance of Fairy Tale
Peterson interprets Snow White as a tale rich in psychological and evolutionary dynamics. He connects the story's symbols to universal themes, such as the struggle between youth and age, and fertility suppression. The queen's use of items like the corset and apple symbolize attempts to eliminate Snow White's fertility, while the story's color palette of black, white, and red carries deep cultural significance. Peterson emphasizes that the tale's enduring appeal stems from its reflection of timeless human truths about power, competition, and the human condition.
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Counterarguments
- The interpretation of the Evil Queen's motivations could be seen as overly simplistic, not accounting for the complexity of human (or character) psychology beyond pride and envy.
- The comparison of the Evil Queen to Lucifer might be viewed as a dramatic analogy that doesn't fully capture the nuances of the character's motivations or the context of the fairy tale.
- The idea that dominant females suppress subordinates' fertility could be challenged by research showing that social hierarchies are more complex and not solely determined by such direct forms of competition.
- The notion that powerful women influence younger women's reproductive choices could be seen as a generalization that doesn't account for individual agency and the multifaceted reasons behind personal decisions.
- The interpretation of the dwarfs as representing ordinary masculinity could be contested as a reductive view of gender roles and their representation in fairy tales.
- The prince's role could be critiqued as perpetuating traditional gender norms, where the male savior is necessary for the female character's ultimate safety and happiness.
- The interpretation of the story's symbols and color palette might be seen as one of many possible readings, with alternative interpretations offering different insights into the tale's meaning.
- The assertion that the tale reflects timeless human truths could be challenged by pointing out that interpretations of stories evolve with cultural and societal changes.
Actionables
- Reflect on your own experiences with envy by journaling about times you've felt similar emotions, and consider how these feelings influenced your actions. This self-reflection can help you recognize patterns in your behavior and develop strategies to manage negative emotions constructively. For example, if you notice you often feel envious when scrolling through social media, you might decide to limit your usage or curate your feed to include more positive and diverse content.
- Create a personal "code of conduct" that outlines how you will treat others, especially those who might be seen as rivals or subordinates, to foster a supportive environment. This could include committing to complimenting colleagues on their successes, offering mentorship to younger individuals in your field, or actively working against gossip in your social circles. By setting these standards for yourself, you can contribute to a culture of respect and collaboration.
- Use storytelling or creative writing to explore themes of power and competition in a fictional context, which can provide insight into your own values and decision-making. Write short stories that incorporate elements like mentorship, rivalry, or protection, and analyze your characters' motivations and choices. This exercise can serve as a mirror to your own life, helping you understand how you navigate similar situations and relationships.
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The Psychology and Motivations of the Evil Queen
The Evil Queen's tale is a complex narrative of pride, envy, and terror at the prospect of losing her cherished identity as the fairest of all.
The Evil Queen, Consumed by Pride, Envy, and a Desire to Remain the Fairest
The Evil Queen Prides Herself On Beauty and Youth, Staking Her Identity on Them
Peterson analyzes the Evil Queen's pride, which he identifies as the root of her nefarious behavior. He equates her pride with the downfall of Lucifer, a spirit attempting to usurp the divine. The queen does not use her beauty, a gift of Providence, graciously or self-sacrificingly but for her own vanity. Her identity is deeply intertwined with her beauty and youth, to the destructive exclusion of other virtues.
Jealousy Drives the Evil Queen to Eliminate Snow White's Surpassing Beauty
When her enchanted mirror reveals that Snow White has surpassed her beauty, the Evil Queen's heart turns black with envy, leading her to plot the death of her own daughter. Her feeling of envy is so overpowering that she is willing to go to great lengths, including disguising herself as a peddler, to accomplish her malicious plans. The mirror's confirmation of Snow White’s superior beauty fuels the Evil Queen’s hatred and motivates her horrific actions.
The Evil Queen's Jealousy Drives Her To Horrific Acts, Even Plotting to Kill Her Daughter
Peterson describes the Evil Queen's worship of her own beauty, which leads her to take extreme measures to preserve her image as the fairest. Her actions reflect the inversion of the maternal nourishment paradigm, symbolizing a mother who consumes rather than nurtures her child. The queen's vanity and her obses ...
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The Psychology and Motivations of the Evil Queen
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Counterarguments
- The Evil Queen's behavior might be interpreted not just as pride, but also as a reflection of societal pressures and the value placed on beauty and youth, especially for women.
- The Queen's identity could be seen as a product of her environment, which values physical appearance above other qualities, rather than a personal failing.
- The Queen's actions towards Snow White could be seen as a misguided attempt to maintain her position in a society that discards women as they age, rather than pure jealousy.
- The story could be viewed as a commentary on the toxic effects of a society obsessed with youth and beauty, rather than the Queen's individual pathology.
- The narrative could be critiqued for potentially reinforcing negative stereotypes about stepmothers and women in power.
- The Queen's desire to remain the fairest could be seen as a survival strategy in a patriarchal society that equates a woman's worth with her appearance.
- The tale could be reinterpreted from a feminist perspecti ...
Actionables
- Reflect on your own triggers for jealousy by keeping a journal where you note instances of envy in your daily life. This self-awareness exercise helps you identify patterns and situations that provoke feelings of jealousy, similar to how the Evil Queen's envy was triggered by Snow White's beauty. For example, if you find yourself feeling envious when a colleague receives praise, write it down and explore why it affects you.
- Create a "virtue portfolio" that includes attributes you value beyond physical appearance, such as kindness, intelligence, or creativity. This activity encourages you to focus on and develop aspects of your character that are not tied to looks, countering the Evil Queen's singular obsession with beauty. You might start by listing five non-physical traits you appreciate in yourself and others, then actively work on enhancing these traits through volunteer work, learning new skills, or mentoring.
- Practice expressing genuine happiness for others' successes by sending congratulatory messa ...
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Dominant and Subordinate Females in Social Hierarchies
Jordan Peterson discusses the complex dynamics between dominant and subordinate females in social hierarchies, drawing parallels between human behavior and that observed in higher status female primates.
Dominant Female Primates Suppress Lower-Status Females' Fertility
Dominant Females Undermine Subordinates' Status via Social Stress, Gossip, and Exclusion, Disrupting Hormonal Cycles
Peterson plans to explore the topic of the Evil Queen, a symbol possibly reflecting the fertility suppression seen in higher status female primates. He delves into the psychological significance of this archetype, explaining that high-status females may employ tactics to undermine the reproductive success of subordinate females. This strategy might maximize the high-status females' chances of mating success and genetic propagation. According to Peterson, social stress deployed by these dominant individuals can cause an increase in stress hormones among their subordinates, disrupting their hormonal cycles, which can, in turn, lead to reduced fertility. Dominant females may use tools such as gossip, social isolation, and reputation savaging to achieve these ends.
Dominant Women May Control Younger, Lower-Status Women's Reproductive Choices
In certain human societies, Peterson notes that older women or those with high social standing often exercise influence over the reproductive choices of younger, lower-status women. This control might manifest in decisions about when and whom these younger females marry, thereby delaying or restricting their reproductive opportunities, often dictated by mothers-in-law or other older women within the social structure.
Powerful Modern Women May Indirectly Suppress Other Women's Fertility
Extending the discussion to modern contexts, Peterson points out that dominant figures, such as corporate leaders or tenure ...
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Dominant and Subordinate Females in Social Hierarchies
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Counterarguments
- The comparison between human and primate social dynamics may oversimplify the complexity of human social structures, cultures, and individual differences.
- The idea that dominant women intentionally or even subconsciously suppress the fertility of subordinate women is a broad generalization that may not hold true across different societies and individual cases.
- The concept of fertility suppression could be interpreted as a form of biological determinism that overlooks the role of personal choice and socio-economic factors in reproductive decisions.
- The notion that powerful modern women create work environments that discourage family life could be seen as an oversimplification that ignores the efforts made by many organizations to support work-life balance.
- The suggestion that older women control the reproductive choices of younger women may not account for the increasing autonomy and empowerment of younger women in many societies.
- The ...
Actionables
- Reflect on your workplace dynamics to identify if you're contributing to a competitive environment. Consider your interactions with colleagues, especially those who might be in a lower position than you. Are you engaging in gossip or exclusionary practices? Make a conscious effort to foster a supportive atmosphere by mentoring, sharing opportunities, and offering constructive feedback instead of criticism.
- Create a personal policy for balancing career and family life that aligns with your values. If you're in a leadership position, use this policy to guide how you structure team projects and deadlines, ensuring that you're not inadvertently pressuring team members to prioritize work over personal or family time. This could involve implementing flexible working hours or encouraging the use of personal days for family events.
- Educate yourself on the nuances of identity politics without using it as ...
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Dwarfs and Prince's Role In Protecting Snow White
The timeless tale of Snow White has deep-seated implications regarding protection and alliance between ordinary men and young women, as highlighted by Jordan Peterson.
Dwarfs Offer a Safe Haven and Support for Vulnerable Snow White, Embodying Benevolent Masculinity
Peterson suggests that Snow White represents young women who seek refuge from the toxicity of older women, such as the Evil Queen, and finds protection with the dwarfs. The story portrays the dwarfs' dwelling as tidy and well-maintained, which indicates their capability to maintain order and take care of themselves. When Snow White arrives, she discovers a place ready with food and drink, showcasing masculine provision and hospitality.
Snow White runs away from her malevolent mother and finds shelter with the dwarfs, who embody a stable, ordinary, productive patriarchy. The dwarfs then offer her protection in exchange for household services like cooking, cleaning, and knitting. When she is tricked by the Evil Queen, the dwarfs come to her aid by cutting a lace that the queen had tied too tightly. Peterson regards the dwarfs as protectors and allies against destructive elements. Snow White's role as the helpmeet for the dwarfs illustrates a symbiotic relationship with ordinary masculinity.
However, the dwarfs' protective capacity has its limits; they represent ordinary, hardworking men rather than individualized saviors. They were unable to shield Snow White from the Evil Queen's poison—their valiant efforts to revive her following her bite of the poisoned apple prove unsuccessful. Despite this failure, the dwarfs pay tribute to Snow White by placing her in a glass coffin, continuing to value and respect her even in her dormant state.
The Prince's Bond With Snow White Empowers Him to Revive and Shield Her From the Evil Queen's Schemes
The prince’s entry into the narrative is significant. He represents a higher form of masculinity, one that seeks an individualized relationship with Snow White and desires to take active responsibility for her wellbeing. The prince is willing to honor her as his be ...
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Dwarfs and Prince's Role In Protecting Snow White
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Counterarguments
- The portrayal of the dwarfs as embodying benevolent masculinity could be seen as a traditional and potentially outdated view of gender roles, where men are protectors and women require protection.
- The idea that Snow White's role as a helpmeet reinforces a symbiotic relationship with masculinity could be criticized for perpetuating gender stereotypes, suggesting that women's roles are primarily supportive or domestic.
- The narrative that the dwarfs' protective capacity is limited and requires a prince to ultimately save Snow White might be viewed as undermining the agency and capability of ordinary men (or people in general) in favor of a more elite savior figure.
- The prince's role as a higher form of masculinity could be challenged as promoting a hierarchical view of gender relations, where some forms of masculinity are deemed superior to others.
- The concept that the prince's bond with Snow White is what empowers him to protect and revive her could be critiqued for implying that a woman's value is in her ability to inspire or validate a man.
- The ide ...
Actionables
- Reflect on your personal support network by listing the individuals or groups who act as your 'dwarfs,' offering you refuge and support in times of need. Understanding who is there for you can help you appreciate and strengthen these relationships. For example, if you have a colleague who always has your back at work, make an effort to acknowledge their support and consider ways you can reciprocate.
- Volunteer to be a mentor or ally in your community, embodying the protective and supportive traits of the dwarfs. By offering guidance and assistance to someone who may be facing challenges, you create a symbiotic relationship that benefits both parties. You could join a local youth mentorship program or offer your skills to a community center, providing a safe space for others to grow and learn.
- Cultivate qualities of noble and courageous character by setting ...
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Symbolic Meaning and Significance of Fairy Tale
In a discussion led by Jordan Peterson, the intricate symbolism of the fairy tale "Snow White" is unraveled to reveal its deep psychological and evolutionary dynamics, uncovering themes of fertility suppression, female competition, and power struggles, all of which are argued to embody profound truths about consciousness, morality, and the human condition.
Snow White: Archetype of Youth vs. Age, Innocence vs. Corruption
Exploring Psychological and Evolutionary Dynamics In Fairy Tales: Fertility Suppression, Female Competition, and Power Struggles
Peterson compares themes in "Snow White" with primate behavior, such as how dominant females may suppress the fertility of others, which he likens to broader human power struggles. He reveals that the tale echoes a battle between youth and age where the Evil Queen's battle against her stepdaughter is not just familial but symbolizes a universal struggle of aging against youth, particularly amid fertility and sexual attractiveness. This theme crystallizes in the queen's envy that drives her to suppress Snow White's burgeoning beauty and potential instead of stepping back as the wise mother.
Peterson also connects this to extreme cultural practices, such as female genital mutilation, where older women carry out the act, symbolizing age's attempt to stamp out youth's fertility and attractiveness. Delving deeper, he examines the queen's behavior as a pathology, a deviation in human development where parents feel threatened by their child's potential, often leading to discouragement and harm. This form of fertility suppression and power struggle is mirrored in the queen's inability to let Snow White take precedence due to her youth.
Symbols and Imagery Embody Deep Meaning On Consciousness, Morality, and the Human Condition
Peterson dissects the symbolic elements within the narrative, such as the corset and apple used by the queen, which simultaneously connote attractiveness and fertility suppression, advancing the tale's depiction of female competition. He suggests the colors black, white, and red, used in the story, have a universal symbolic significance across cultures, with red representing youth and fecundity. He critiques modern interpretations of the story that fail to adhere to these lessons, arguing that they deviate from universal truths about power struggles, reproductive pathology, and the oppression represented by the Evil Queen archetype. The ...
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Symbolic Meaning and Significance of Fairy Tale
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Counterarguments
- The interpretation of fairy tales like "Snow White" can be highly subjective, and different cultures or individuals may derive varying meanings from the same story.
- The themes identified by Peterson, such as fertility suppression and female competition, may not be universally recognized or accepted as the central or intended themes of the tale.
- The connection between the Evil Queen's behavior and pathological human development is a psychological interpretation that may not be supported by all schools of thought within psychology or literary criticism.
- The use of symbols like the corset and apple could be seen as multifaceted rather than strictly representing attractiveness and fertility suppression.
- The assertion that colors like black, white, and red have universal symbolic significance might overlook cultural differences in color symbolism.
- Modern interpretations of fairy tales can offer new and diverse perspectives that are equally valid and may resonate with contemporary audiences in different ways.
- The idea that fairy tales define culture and affirm shared consciousness could be challenged by the notion that they also evolve with culture and can be reinter ...
Actionables
- Reflect on your own experiences with envy and aging by journaling about times you've felt competitive with younger individuals. This self-reflection can help you understand your personal development and identify areas where you might be holding onto unproductive emotions. For example, write about a situation where you felt overshadowed by someone younger and explore how that made you feel and what you can learn from it.
- Use the symbolism of colors in your wardrobe to influence your mood and perceptions. Since black, white, and red have universal significance, intentionally wearing these colors on days when you want to embody their symbolic meanings can be a subtle way to connect with these themes. Wear red to tap into its associations with vitality and fertility, white for purity and new beginnings, and black for power and sophistication.
- Create a modern retelling of "Snow White" ...
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