553. Why Do Smart People Double Down On Bad Ideas? | Dr. Gad Saad
In this episode of The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast, Dr. Gad Saad and Peterson examine why people maintain their beliefs despite contradicting evidence. They discuss cognitive dissonance theory and Saad's concept of "ostrich parasitic syndrome," which describes how individuals avoid challenging information. The conversation includes evolutionary perspectives on belief systems and decision-making, including how birth order may influence openness to new ideas.
The speakers also address changes they've observed in academic institutions, particularly regarding hiring practices and merit-based systems. They share their experiences with these institutional shifts, discussing how universities have changed their approach to faculty selection and academic priorities. Peterson and Saad describe their own transitions away from traditional academia and their current work in alternative educational frameworks.
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Psychology and Evolutionary Basis of Belief Dynamics
In this podcast episode, Gad Saad and Jordan Peterson explore why people hold onto their beliefs and how evolutionary forces influence our ability to change our minds.
The Challenge of Changing Beliefs
Saad explains how people often resist changing their minds, even when faced with clear contradictory evidence. He introduces Leon Festinger's concept of cognitive dissonance, which describes how individuals protect their belief systems, sometimes becoming more entrenched in their original positions when presented with opposing evidence. Saad also discusses his concept of "ostrich parasitic syndrome," describing how people often willfully avoid challenging realities.
Evolutionary Perspectives on Belief Systems
Peterson explores the evolutionary basis for resistance to belief change, focusing on the relationship between immediate gratification and long-term thinking. Saad adds to this discussion by explaining how intertemporal decisions are influenced by evolutionary triggers. The conversation extends to Frank Sulloway's "Darwinian niche partitioning hypothesis," which suggests that birth order affects individuals' openness to new ideas.
Changes in Academic Institutions
The Shift Away from Merit-Based Systems
Both speakers discuss significant changes in university hiring practices, with Saad noting that 98% of Canadian university job postings now emphasize diversity, inclusion, and equity (DIE) considerations. They share personal experiences of how these changes have affected their careers, with Saad describing his decision to forgo applying for a university chair position due to DIE statement requirements.
Speakers' Academic Experiences
Peterson recalls his time at Harvard in the 1990s, describing it as an era when universities prioritized intellectual pursuit and scientific research. Both speakers discuss their transitions away from traditional academia, with Peterson establishing the Peterson Academy and continuing his educational work outside the standard university framework. They express concern about the current state of universities, particularly regarding what they view as an increasing emphasis on ideological conformity over academic merit.
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Counterarguments
- Cognitive dissonance is a well-established psychological phenomenon, but some researchers argue that it is not the only or even the primary reason people resist changing their beliefs. Other factors, such as social identity theory and confirmation bias, also play significant roles.
- While evolutionary psychology provides insights into human behavior, it is often criticized for oversimplifying complex traits and behaviors by attributing them to evolutionary pressures without sufficient empirical evidence.
- The Darwinian niche partitioning hypothesis is an interesting concept, but it is not universally accepted. Some psychologists and sociologists argue that factors such as culture, environment, and education can have a more significant impact on openness to new ideas than birth order.
- The shift in university hiring practices towards diversity, inclusion, and equity is often defended on the grounds that it addresses historical imbalances and creates a more representative and equitable academic environment.
- The emphasis on DIE considerations in academia is sometimes seen as a way to enrich the educational experience by bringing diverse perspectives that enhance learning and research.
- The claim that universities are shifting from intellectual pursuit to ideological conformity is contested. Many argue that the pursuit of knowledge and the inclusion of diverse perspectives are not mutually exclusive and that academic rigor can be maintained alongside DIE initiatives.
- The creation of alternative educational institutions like the Peterson Academy can be seen as a positive development for offering more choices in education, but it could also be argued that these institutions may lack the rigorous peer review and accreditation processes that traditional universities have in place.
Actionables
- Challenge your own beliefs by engaging in a "belief audit" where you write down key beliefs and the evidence that supports them, then actively seek out credible counterarguments to consider. This exercise can help you recognize cognitive dissonance and become more open to changing beliefs when presented with new information.
- Create a "future diary" where you record decisions that involve immediate gratification versus long-term benefits, reflecting on the outcomes over time. This can help you become more aware of how evolutionary forces influence your decision-making and assist you in making more balanced intertemporal choices.
- Volunteer for or initiate a diversity and inclusion project in your workplace or community, focusing on gathering a wide range of perspectives and experiences. This can give you practical insight into the impact of diversity, inclusion, and equity considerations and help foster an environment that values different viewpoints.
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Psychology and Evolutionary Basis of Belief Dynamics
Gad Saad and Jordan Peterson delve into the complexities of human beliefs, exploring why individuals cling to their convictions despite contrary evidence and how evolutionary forces shape our willingness to change.
People Cling To Beliefs Despite Contradictory Evidence
Saad explains the surprising difficulty people have in changing their minds, even when confronted with overwhelming evidence. He cites the re-election of Justin Trudeau and the Liberal Party in Canada as an example of deep-seated convictions resistant to change. He discusses cognitive dissonance, a concept pioneered by Leon Festinger, which details how people will go to great lengths to protect their belief systems, irrespective of contradictory input. This can even lead to the phenomenon where exposure to evidence proving them wrong can paradoxically entrench their beliefs further.
Cognitive Dissonance and Maintaining Belief Coherence Despite Counter-Evidence
Saad touches on cognitive dissonance when discussing how individuals manage to maintain the coherence of their belief system despite counter-evidence. This process sometimes results in a stubborn attachment to their original position, even when all signs point to its incorrectness.
Contradictory Information Often Entrenches Existing Beliefs
Furthermore, Saad observes that instead of facilitating a change in point of view, contradictory information can often reinforce one's pre-existing beliefs. The more people are pressed with evidence against their convictions, the more solidified these convictions may become.
Willful Blindness and the "Ostrich Effect" - Avoiding Challenging Realities
Saad explains the concept of "ostrich parasitic syndrome" from his previous book, a metaphor for willful blindness, and Peterson draws on ancient mythology and contemporary comparisons to illustrate the human tendency to avoid uncomfortable realities, mirroring the "ostrich effect."
Evolutionary Explanations For why People Resist Belief Change
Peterson delves into the evolutionary reasoning behind our instincts for immediate gratification versus long-term thinking. He argues that servicing an exacting conscience is the longest-term game, as reflected in delayed gratification. He explains that immature individuals or psychopaths, inclined toward instant reward, tend to neglect future consequences and the needs of others.
Immediate vs. Delayed Gratification: Impulses vs. Long-Term Thinking
Gad Saad discusses intertemporal decisions, addressing studies where participants are prompted to choose between immediate and delayed monetary rewards. The lambda parameter, previously considered stable, has been shown to be influenced by evolutionary triggers, such as satiation or priming the ma ...
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Psychology and Evolutionary Basis of Belief Dynamics
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Clarifications
- Cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort experienced when holding conflicting beliefs or attitudes. People tend to resolve this discomfort by adjusting their beliefs or behaviors to align with each other. This phenomenon highlights the human tendency to seek consistency in their thoughts and actions to reduce psychological stress.
- The lambda parameter in the context of intertemporal decisions represents an individual's discount rate for future rewards. It reflects how much weight someone places on immediate gratification versus long-term benefits. Studies on intertemporal decision-making examine how this parameter can be influenced by various factors, such as evolutionary triggers like satiation or mating cues. This parameter helps researchers understand why individuals may choose immediate rewards over delayed gratification and how evolutionary instincts play a role in decision-making processes.
- The Abrahamic Covenant is a significant concept in religious belief, specifically in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. It represents a sacred agreement between God and Abraham, outlining promises and responsibilities. This covenant is seen as foundational in shaping the relationship between believers and the divine. It is often interpreted as a symbol of faith, obedience, and the establishment of a chosen people.
- Trait conscientiousness is a personality characteristic associated with being responsible, organized, and diligent. It involves a strong sense of duty, self-discipline, and a focus on achieving goals. Conscientious individuals are typically dependable, hard-working, and tend to exhibit behaviors ...
Actionables
- You can challenge your own beliefs by keeping a "Belief Journal" where you write down a core belief and then actively seek out information that contradicts it. Afterward, reflect on the new information and note any changes in your perspective. This practice encourages open-mindedness and the ability to process conflicting evidence.
- Start a "Gratification Delay Challenge" with friends or family where you set goals that require postponing immediate rewards for future benefits. For example, instead of going out for dinner, cook at home and put the money saved towards a shared goal like a group trip. This fosters a habit of delayed gratification and demonstrates its value through tangible outcomes.
- Engage in a "Role Reversal Exercis ...
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Decline of Universities and Corruption of Academic Institutions
An examination of recent trends in academia suggests a shift away from merit-based principles and a rise in ideological agendas influencing hiring practices and university operations.
Erosion of Merit and Ideological Agendas in University Hiring
Speakers, including Gad Saad and Jordan Peterson, share concerns about how diversity and inclusion considerations seem to overshadow traditional academic qualifications in university settings.
Die Statements Overshadow Academic Qualifications in Job Postings
An Aristotle Foundation study finds that an overwhelming 98% of Canadian university job postings now mention diversity, inclusion, and equity (DIE) considerations. Gad Saad describes an incident at Harvard Business School in 1993 where he believes a hiring decision was influenced by gender, as he was passed over for a female candidate despite being highly qualified and advancing through initial hiring rounds.
Speakers' Experiences Of Being Ousted From Academia For Resisting Ideological Conformity
Saad also shares that he chose not to reapply for a university chair position because it required a DIE statement, which he wasn’t willing to support. This choice impacted his ability to secure university-based research funds. He reflects on his years without such funds due to ideological commitments he refuses to make. Peterson adds to the conversation by noting that researchers at Harvard are providing DIE statements only because it has become a government-mandated requirement.
Prestigious Universities Transforming Into "Woke" Institutions Prioritizing Ideology Over Scholarship
Academic Freedom Decline as Institutions Bow To Ideological Agenda
Jordan Peterson argues that society, including academia, became conscientious and merit-based post-World War II. In contrast, there has been a rec ...
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Decline of Universities and Corruption of Academic Institutions
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Clarifications
- DIE statements in job postings stand for Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity statements. These statements are increasingly included in job postings by universities to emphasize their commitment to promoting diversity, inclusivity, and equity in their hiring practices and organizational culture. Candidates are often expected to align with these values as part of the application process. The presence of DIE statements reflects a broader societal and institutional focus on addressing issues related to diversity and equality in academic settings.
- Gad Saad is an evolutionary psychologist known for his work on the application of evolutionary psychology to consumer behavior and marketing. Jordan Peterson is a clinical psychologist and professor known for his views on cultural and political issues, particularly regarding free speech and political correctness. Both have been vocal critics of what they perceive as ideological influences in academia.
- The ideological changes in academia mentioned in the text point to a perceived shift towards prioritizing diversity, inclusion, and equity considerations in university hiring and operations. Critics argue that these considerations may sometimes overshadow traditional academic qualifications, leading to concerns about merit-based principles being compromised. Some individuals, like Gad Saad and Jordan Peterson, have raised issues about what they see as a growing influence of ideological agendas on academic institutions, potentially impacting academic freedom and the principles of merit that historically guided academia.
- Scholars being forced out for upholding principles typically involves situations w ...
Counterarguments
- Diversity, inclusion, and equity (DIE) considerations in job postings may reflect a broader societal push for representation and fairness, rather than an erosion of merit.
- The incident at Harvard Business School in 1993 involving Gad Saad could be interpreted differently, considering that hiring decisions are complex and often involve multiple factors beyond qualifications.
- The requirement for DIE statements in academia could be seen as an effort to ensure that all candidates are committed to creating an inclusive environment, which is increasingly viewed as an essential aspect of academic leadership and excellence.
- The argument that DIE requirements impact the ability to secure research funds could be countered by the view that these requirements are meant to ensure that research benefits a diverse society and addresses a range of social issues.
- The claim that professors are turning a blind eye to changes in academia could be challenged by the perspective that many academics are actively engaged in discussions about how to balance equity and merit.
- The n ...
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Experiences and Observations of Speakers in Academia
Jordan Peterson and Gad Saad share their perceptions and experiences related to their time in the academic world, illuminating the changes and challenges they have observed.
Fond 1990s Memories: Universities as Intellectual and Scientific Strongholds
Senior Faculty's Caliber, Young Professors' Dedication, Collaborative Research Culture
Peterson nostalgically recalls his time at Harvard, describing the university environment as one that once prioritized intellectual efforts and scientific research. He speaks with admiration regarding the senior faculty's expertise and the young professors' commitment. The overarching culture at the time seemed conducive to collaborative research, with a high caliber of students and an effective administration supporting the academic mission.
Speakers' Experiences Navigating the Academic Landscape
Gad Saad's Near-Miss at Harvard Business School and Diversity Considerations
The discussion hints at an incident where Saad was a final-round candidate for a position at Harvard Business School, but there is no specific detail stating that he was turned down due to diversity considerations. Peterson, on the other hand, suggests that hiring committees have historically made considerable efforts to hire candidates of minority status.
Jordan Peterson on Harvard, Conformity, and Academia
Peterson's reflections touch upon a departure from academia that he likens to "heading for the hills," which occurred as a reaction to ideological shifts in university hiring practices around 2010. He notes that universities had begun to change in a way that didn't agree with his principles. Peterson also expresses discontent with current conditions in universities, describing classrooms as poorly set up and students being treated as mere numbers. He has reservations about large impersonal academic institutions and is critical of the indoctrination he perceives is happening a ...
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Experiences and Observations of Speakers in Academia
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Counterarguments
- Universities still prioritize intellectual efforts and scientific research, with many institutions leading groundbreaking studies and fostering a collaborative research culture.
- Diversity considerations in hiring practices can enhance the academic environment by bringing a wider range of perspectives and experiences, which can enrich the learning and research environment.
- Ideological diversity is also present in academia, with a range of viewpoints and schools of thought represented in scholarly debates and research.
- Many universities are actively working to improve classroom experiences and student engagement, with a focus on smaller class sizes, interactive learning, and personalized education.
- Academic institutions often provide essential services and support to students and faculty, which can contribute to a more personal and impactful educational experience.
- DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) initiatives can be seen as efforts to create a more inclusive and equitable academic environment, which can benefit all members of the university community.
- Alternative education platforms, such as the Peterson Academy, can complement traditional acade ...
Actionables
- You can explore alternative educational platforms to engage with intellectual content outside of traditional academia. Look for online courses, webinars, or community-led workshops that focus on critical thinking and open dialogue. For example, platforms like Coursera or edX offer courses from various universities, and local libraries or community centers might host discussions or lectures that encourage diverse perspectives without the constraints of formal academic settings.
- Start a personal development book club with friends or colleagues to discuss narratives that impact societal issues. Choose books like "Pinocchio" or other classic literature that delve into themes of personal growth and societal values. This encourages intellectual discussion and critical analysis in a more intimate and personal setting, fostering the collaborative spirit of learning.
- Reflect on your own experi ...
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