JRE MMA Show #183 with Rico Verhoeven

The recent clash between Rico Verhoeven and Oleksandr Usyk stands out for its dramatic intensity as well as its contentious judging and officiating, fueling ongoing debates in the boxing world.

Fight Ends With Controversial Judging and Scoring Disagreement

Throughout the fight, a significant discrepancy emerges between how experts, trainers, and commentators perceive the action and how the judges officially score it. Joe Rogan asserts that Rico won "10 fucking rounds" and expresses disbelief at the official scorecards, which favored Usyk or resulted in a draw, rather than reflecting Rico's apparent dominance. Even after eight rounds, Rico’s trainer Peter Fury informs him the fight is even on the cards, despite Rico feeling in control and many observers seeing him ahead. This prompts Rico to push even more aggressively in the later rounds, worried that otherwise he could lose in a fight he felt he was clearly winning. Both Rico and Rogan note the confusion and frustration among commentators as they try to reconcile what they are witnessing with the scorecards being delivered.

This discrepancy in scoring raises pointed questions about either profound incompetence or outright corruption within boxing’s judging ranks. Rogan speculates that judges may be swayed by promotional interests and the financial incentives of keeping Usyk, a heavyweight champion with big-money fights ahead, in a winning position. Rico agrees that coming from a different combat sport and threatening to make the biggest upset in boxing history likely impacted how the powers in boxing wanted the result to go. Both agree that the scenario, especially in a career-defining bout, is unjust and raises serious questions about the suitability of current scoring systems, advocating for more judges to mitigate poor decision-making.

Referee Stopped Fight Prematurely After Bell Sounded

Adding fuel to the controversy, the fight is brought to an abrupt and questionable end. The referee stops the bout after the twelfth-round bell, violating boxing rules that clearly state the fight must end with the bell, not on the referee's intervention after it. Rico appeals the stoppage, and officials subsequently agree that the fight was indeed stopped after the bell and that Rico exhibited no signs of concussion or disorientation when assessed by the ringside doctor. However, despite meeting every criterion for a reversal of the decision, and the officials validating the appeal’s arguments, the outcome is not overturned.

This stoppage deeply frustrates Rico, who feels denied the chance to recover, rally in the final round, and potentially secure a draw or victory. He points out that, given his reputation for bouncing back and finishing strong in later rounds—even when behind—it’s unjust for the referee not to have given him the opportunity to continue, especially when so much was on the line. Rogan notes that if the situation were reversed, there would likely have been no stoppage with Usyk in t ...

Turkey Al-sheikh and Organization Revolutionizing Combat Sports With Unprecedented Fights

Joe Rogan and Rico Verhoeven emphasize the influence of His Excellency, Turkey Al-sheikh, in revolutionizing combat sports, particularly boxing. Rogan states, “He has set up so many great fights. He's so important to boxing right now.” Verhoeven expresses gratitude, remarking, “His Excellency has our first preference because they gave us the opportunity.”

Al-sheikh’s organization is lauded for innovating crossover fights and unique events, such as staging a heavyweight championship at the Pyramids of Giza. Verhoeven describes the surreal experience of receiving a WhatsApp message with a picture of the pyramids as a potential fight location. He details the event’s production, recalling how his punch triggered special effects and illuminated the pyramids, providing a “goose bump moment.” Verhoeven compares the event’s spectacle to the legendary “Rumble in the Jungle,” emphasizing the historic and symbolic significance of the location.

Their approach pushes the boundaries of what's possible in combat sports by enabling matchups previously thought unimaginable, like the Francis Ngannou vs. Tyson Fury fight and proposals for fights in Times Square. Rogan explains, “He's getting guys to fight that didn't want to fight each other…[by asking], how about this amount? Oh, okay.” Verhoeven adds, “He thinks outside of the box…whenever you hear something and you say, nah, that’s not possible. I think that's the right trigger. He'll make it happen.”

This strategy fundamentally contrasts with traditional boxing, where marquee matchups like Floyd Mayweather vs. Manny Pacquiao took years to materialize—often with one athlete past his prime. Rogan says, “If Turkey Al-sheikh had been around back [then]…they probably would have made that happen when they're in their prime. That's what boxing needs. That's what MMA needs.”

Financial offers from Al-sheikh’s team are often so substantial they break traditional barriers, bringing elite fighters to unconventional matchups. Verhoeven discusses fielding significant offers and the resulting ability to remain a free agent: “For me now to be in this position, I'm a free agent. We got offers from the biggest organizations across the world…I'm just taking my time.”

Fighters Deserve Higher Compensation for Their Risks

Verhoeven and Rogan both underscore the crucial point that combat athletes risk their long-term health within a small window of elite performance. Verhoeven says, “We as fighters [are] putting our health on the line for entertainment. We know how dangerous it is. Exactly. And that's why I feel like it has to be fair and it needs to be compensated the right way.”

Both agree that fair and transparent compensation—alongside safety, honest officiating, and judging—is essential for the sport’s integrity and athlete welfare. Verhoeven argues that fighters “should earn a little bit more…everything should be in balance.” He insists that higher pay must match the degree of danger and sacrifice: “Yeah, he's making so much money yet. But he can't do that until he's 65 or whatever.” Athletes must be able to build wealth, given the brevity of their careers and ongoing health risks.

Rogan and Verhoeven state that fair and clear pay not only supports current athletes but also draws elite talent from other sports, raising the quality and popularity of combat sports overall.

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Rico's Endurance-Based Strength Conditioning

High-Repetition Training With Short Rest Periods

Rico Verhoeven builds his physical preparation on endurance-based strength conditioning, prioritizing stamina and sustained output over raw power. He trains with full-body workouts three times a week, focusing on high repetitions—typically starting with sets of 20 reps per muscle group, which then increase to 22, 24, or more as fight night approaches. Each set is followed by a brief 30-second rest before moving to a different muscle group, maintaining a rapid pace throughout. This structure creates an intense session that rarely lasts beyond 35 to 40 minutes.

High-Rep, Minimal-Rest Structure Enhances Strength, Cardiovascular Fitness, and Muscular Endurance, Reducing Heart's Oxygen Demand During Exertion

By working with moderate weight but high volume and minimizing rest intervals, Rico improves both muscular endurance and cardiovascular fitness. He deliberately avoids excessive muscle mass, believing that larger muscles would increase his body's oxygen needs and put unnecessary strain on his heart. This approach helps him become stronger and much fitter simultaneously, enabling him to push an unusually high pace for a 260-pound heavyweight. The result is the ability to maintain relentless, fight-changing activity for extended periods.

Mental Toughness Equals Physical Conditioning: Rico Believes Tiredness Affects Opponents More Due To His Superior Conditioning

Rico also credits mental resilience as equally important to physical conditioning. He believes the real fight begins when fatigue sets in. Confident in his superior conditioning and work ethic, Rico feels that when he senses himself getting tired, his opponent is likely already feeling worse. He maintains that he "lives in the gym," making it nearly impossible to lose a fight on the basis of cardio—further cementing his psychological edge over competitors.

Six-month Kickboxing-To-boxing Transition Needs Technical Adjustment

Rico's Boxing Stance too Square for Optimization

Transitioning from kickboxing to boxing demanded significant technical adjustments for Rico, especially with regard to his stance. In kickboxing, fighters stand more square to enable effective kicking and checking kicks defensively. However, this position is sub-optimal for boxing, where lateral movement and angle are paramount.

Trainer Peter Fury Improved Stance and Positioning for Kickboxing Balance

Rico credits his trainer, Peter Fury, for persistently urging him to adopt a more angled, sideways stance—crucial for boxing but difficult to implement in kickboxing due to exposure of the lead leg. Working with Fury for many years, Rico blended extensive boxing training alongside kickboxing, but only with the transition did he truly embrace a boxing-specific posture.

Preparation Time Was Essential For Developing Instincts and Muscle Memory For Boxing Positioning, Which Couldn't Be Rushed or Compromised by a Faster Transition

Rico emphasizes that the six months he had for preparing the boxing transition were invaluable. The adjustment required repeated correction and conscious effort before it became instinctual. He maintained that neither instinct nor muscle memory for correct boxing positioning can develop overnight, and that the allotted time was perfect for ensuring his stance and movement were ingrained before stepping into the ring. The extended transition, with stable training and preparation time, enabled Rico to achieve a smooth and successful adaptation to boxing.

Rico Exploited Usyk's Boxing Weaknesses With Unconventional Movement

Flawed Approach Against Smaller, Faster, Technical Southpaw Usyk

Facing Oleksandr Usyk—a smaller, faster, and highly technical southpaw—required a strategic approach few heavyweights adopt. Conventional strategy would keep fighters moving to their right, but Rico recognized that shifting right against a southpaw plays directly into their dominant left hand. Instead, Rico moved left, away from Usyk’s strong hand, taking away some of Usyk's key offensive pathways.

Rico Shifted Left, Avoiding Usyk's Left, Using Size to Smother and Generate Power

By consistently angling to his left and persistently closing distance, Rico forced Usyk to reset and prevented the Ukrainian from establishing rhythm or control. Rico leveraged his size—massive yet unusually mobile—to smother Usyk in close quarters, pushing and applying pressure that neutralized Usyk's movement. Unlike other large heavyweights who failed to use their physical advantages against Usyk, ...

Kickboxing, the world’s premier stand-up combat sport, has achieved remarkable technical evolution and global excellence, especially in countries like the Netherlands. Yet, it remains undervalued and underpromoted in American combat sports culture despite its foundational importance for MMA and abundant global star power.

Kickboxing Absent in American Culture Despite Being Leading Stand-Up Combat Sport

Rico Verhoeven and Joe Rogan highlight the paradox at the heart of U.S. combat sports fandom: while kickboxing is a key element in MMA stand-up training and globally recognized for its elite athletes, it is virtually invisible in mainstream American sports culture. Fans of boxing and MMA tend to back their chosen sports with passion, but even devoted fight fans are often unaware of kickboxing’s biggest names and events. Rico notes that “boxing fans... they’re definitely not into kickboxing,” illustrating how even within combat sports circles, knowledge of kickboxing’s top competitors and history is lacking.

In MMA, most casual fans strongly prefer stand-up striking exchanges over ground work and will frequently boo when fights go to the mat. Rogan points out that “casual fans love stand-up and when fights go to the ground they boo... boxing huge... MMA huge... kickboxing almost non-existent in America.” Yet, these same fans rarely follow professional kickboxing or its major leagues, showing a disconnect likely due to visibility and promotion issues rather than any lack of action or skill in the sport itself.

Despite the key role of kickboxing in preparing fighters for elite MMA, with many trainers bringing in Glory kickboxers for UFC preparation, both agree that American audiences and even MMA fighters often lack awareness of kickboxing’s stars and leagues. Rogan and Verhoeven suggest that the UFC, with its immense marketing power, could transform this if it chose to heavily promote kickboxing or Muay Thai as a stand-up combat sport on par with MMA.

Poor Promotion and Storytelling Hindered Kickboxing's Growth in the US

A central reason for kickboxing’s lack of traction in the U.S. is poor promotion and an absence of compelling storytelling around fighters. Rico Verhoeven notes that organizations like Glory have traditionally “just put a fight,” focusing on matchups rather than investing in stories of the fighters themselves. There’s little attention to backgrounds, families, mental preparation, or the unique personalities that could draw emotional investment from fans. As Rico puts it, “where it lacked on experience [is] the storytelling... where does this guy come from?... you want to get to know the person instead of just like the guy that throws punches and kicks.”

Joe Rogan draws a sharp contrast to the UFC’s approach. The UFC’s “Embedded” series, highly-produced countdown shows, and regular fighter features offer fans a behind-the-scenes look at training camps, family lives, struggles with weight cuts, and the genuine personalities and challenges of athletes. This deepens fan investment and transforms casual viewers into dedicated followers. “You see them training, you see them eating, see them in a sauna cutting weight... You get hyped,” Rogan says, stressing that UFC’s narrative style helps viewers see fighters as relatable humans, not just competitors.

Attempts by Glory and other promotions to expand into the U.S. had moments of promise but fizzled due to this lack of narrative hook and sustained media push. Rogan notes that “if the UFC did something like that with kickboxing, I think it would be gigantic,” emphasizing that storytelling and promotional muscle are key ingredients missing from kickboxing's U.S. growth.

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Rico Finds Acting Fulfilling For Processing Suppressed Emotions

Rico Realized That Channeling Emotional Pain Into Physical Intensity Wasn't Healthy for Him

Rico Verhoeven shares that throughout his fighting career, he has coped with loss and trauma by channeling emotional pain into physical intensity in the ring, rather than processing those emotions in a healthy way. He recounts the loss of his mother during preparation for a fight and the loss of his father before another significant bout, neither of which he allowed himself time to process fully. Instead, Rico admits he turned pain into energy for fighting, continually pushing feelings aside and using them as fuel in the ring. He recognizes now that this method offers short-term drive but is not a healthy long-term way to live or maintain personal relationships. Watching his mother’s funeral back weeks after her passing gave him perspective on the importance of truly experiencing and processing emotions.

Working With Elite Actors Like Dave Bautista and Jake Gyllenhaal Shows how Emotional Authenticity Enhances Performance Quality

Rico discusses the impact of working alongside elite actors such as Jake Gyllenhaal, Dave Bautista, and Aldis Hodge. Conversations with these actors underscored the importance of genuine emotional expression for both acting and personal growth. He notes Bautista’s successful transition from WWE to film and how Bautista’s ability to show different sides of himself on camera comes from a place of real feeling. For Rico, acting offers a new passion and an avenue to use emotional authenticity, transforming personal experiences into compelling performances.

Acting Transition Gives Rico an Emotional Outlet and Supports Psychological Growth Beyond Athletics

For Rico, the transition into acting isn’t just professional—it’s a necessary outlet for emotional release and psychological growth. Acting allows him to process his feelings, rather than continually suppressing them. He describes finding acting deeply fulfilling and emphasizes the excitement and satisfaction it brings as he focuses on this new chapter post-fighting. Acting now plays a vital role in his ongoing journey of self-understanding and growth beyond athletics.

Fighters Face Limited Elite Competition Window, Making Career Planning Essential

Most Combat Athletes Peak for Nine Years, Making Rico's Dominance For Decades an Extraordinary Exception

Joe Rogan highlights that most combat athletes reach their prime and are able to compete at an elite level for only about nine years. This makes Rico's sustained dominance in kickboxing for well over a decade a remarkable and rare achievement in combat sports.

Competitive Window Forces Fighters to Make Strategic Decisions Due to Financial and Competition Stakes

Because fighters have a short window to earn at the top level, career planning and timing are crucial. Rico explains that he carefully separates his training camps from movie roles, never blending the two. He insists on setting aside proper time for each pursuit, negotiating his schedule more flexibly now that he has established himself at the top of his sport. Earlier in his career, Rico notes, he had less control and had to seize opportunities as they came, unable to dictate his terms.

Post-Fighting Income and Legacy Planning Involves Strategic Choices Like Pursuing Acting Opportunities

With fighting careers rarely extending into late adulthood, athletes like Rico must look ahead. As he reaches what he calls the "winter" of his fighting career, he is honored to transition to acting and has found it to be an important part of his legacy and financial planning. Rico describes acting as both a passion and a strategic move for sustaining income and relevance after his fighting years, ensuring his legacy continues in new arenas.

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