In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, former Texas Governor Rick Perry and Americans for Ibogaine founder W. Bryan Hubbard discuss ibogaine, a plant-based alkaloid with potential to treat addiction, PTSD, and traumatic brain injury. Perry and Hubbard explain how ibogaine has shown the capacity to disrupt substance dependence with a single dose and promote neuro-regenerative effects in veterans and others who have exhausted conventional treatments. They also describe the intense nature of the ibogaine experience and its spiritual dimensions.
The conversation covers the growing state-led movement to pursue FDA approval and expand access to ibogaine therapy. Perry and Hubbard detail Texas's $100 million research initiative, similar efforts across multiple states, and the emerging role of tribal nations like the Choctaw in leveraging sovereignty to advance clinical trials. They address the regulatory challenges posed by ibogaine's federal Schedule I classification and the strategies being employed to bypass federal hurdles.

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Ibogaine, an alkaloid from the iboga shrub native to central Africa, has been used for centuries in Bawiti spiritual traditions. Since the 1960s, researchers have discovered its remarkable ability to disrupt substance dependence with profound implications for treating addiction and trauma.
Field studies since the 1960s have confirmed ibogaine's capacity to interrupt addiction to opioids, alcohol, cocaine, methamphetamines, and tobacco. Rick Perry and Joe Rogan note that unlike traditional therapies requiring up to 18 months with low completion rates, ibogaine produces life-changing results with a single oral dose, eliminating addiction symptoms in 48 to 72 hours. Two doses have yielded sustained recovery rates up to 98%. Personal accounts include an Oklahoma firefighter restored to full-time work after alcoholism struggles, and Marcus, who overcame opioid and alcohol addiction after other treatments failed.
In 2018, U.S. Special Forces veterans began seeking ibogaine treatment in Mexico for traumatic brain injuries and PTSD after conventional treatments failed. Stanford University scientists investigated and demonstrated ibogaine's neuro-regenerative capacity. Veterans' MRIs showed rapid brain function restoration, with 87% reporting zero PTSD symptoms at six-month follow-up. Rick Perry describes how his own brain atrophy from repeated concussions disappeared six months post-treatment.
Beyond military populations, professional athletes with chronic traumatic encephalopathy, including former NFL player Robert Gallery, credit ibogaine with saving their lives. Individuals have also reported restored abilities after treatment for multiple sclerosis, Lyme disease, and Parkinson's disease. While not a cure, ibogaine appears to slow disease progression and open windows for functional recovery.
Despite its promise, ibogaine involves 12 to 16 hours of semi-paralysis, intense vomiting, and an experience likened to appearing before the "judgment throne of God." Joe Rogan observes it is "absolutely not a recreational compound." However, for those who have exhausted other options, its transformative power restores agency and wellbeing. Ongoing clinical trials, including a three-year Stanford study, aim to provide further insights into ibogaine's mechanisms and sustained impacts.
At the close of 2024, Texas advocates mobilized to pursue FDA approval of ibogaine at the state level. Over 5.5 months, leaders like Bryan Hubbard and Logan Davidson of Texans for Greater Mental Health lobbied 188 Texas legislators. By mid-May 2025, 181 legislators had agreed to support the initiative, and Texas committed $100 million in public funds—making it the largest psychedelic research effort in U.S. history.
This bold commitment catalyzed a movement, with states like Mississippi quickly introducing similar legislation. Rick Perry, former Texas governor, became a leading voice, calling himself the "Johnny Appleseed of Ibogaine." Key institutions like the Center for Brain Health in Dallas have joined as collaborators, lending major credibility to the cause.
Perry, whose background includes decades of opposition to drug liberalization, describes a personal transformation fueled by relationships with wounded veterans. Bryan Hubbard has played a critical policy role, crafting legislative language and advocating for FDA trials. Together, they have inspired bipartisan momentum. Joe Rogan notes that Perry's Republican credentials have made the cause more relatable across the political spectrum.
One major challenge is ibogaine's federal Schedule I classification, which designates it as having "no medical use"—criteria supporters say it doesn't meet. Hubbard explains that federal "right to try" legislation technically allows patients to access medications that have cleared phase one safety trials, but the DEA has refused to include Schedule I substances. Both Perry and Hubbard argue that Presidential directive is required to reschedule ibogaine or instruct the DEA to allow right-to-try access.
The Choctaw Nation announced its intention to play a leading role in ibogaine integration, leveraging tribal sovereignty. Bryan Hubbard confirmed that the Choctaw Nation—the third largest Native tribe—will seek to expand the ibogaine clinical trial onto tribal land, potentially sidestepping federal and state regulatory hurdles.
Hubbard is preparing to lobby the intertribal council meeting of five tribes in April, aiming for a joint resolution in solidarity with Americans for Ibogaine. This would position Native American territories at the forefront of the national movement, with Hubbard hoping for a Native-led federation by year's end.
Rick Perry and advocates relay clinical evidence supporting ibogaine as a breakthrough for treating addiction, PTSD, and traumatic brain injury. Dr. Gull Dolan's work highlights a critical 48 to 72-hour period enabling neuroplastic healing. The organization Forward Intent has funded more than 250 Americans traveling to ibogaine treatment centers in Mexico, where demand outpaces capacity.
Marcus and Morgan Luttrell personally testified that ibogaine saved their lives and those of fellow combat veterans. A firefighter from Oklahoma emerged sober after decades of alcoholism. Robert Gallery, a former NFL player with CTE and suicidal thoughts, credits ibogaine with saving his life. Clinical trials with 30 veterans demonstrated significant PTSD and addiction benefits.
Ibogaine provides breakthroughs for survivors of extreme psychological trauma. Two fashion model twins who were abused for a decade developed eating disorders and treatment-resistant neuroses. After exhausting every other option, ibogaine restored their quality of life. Author Wendi Rees, sexually abused by her pastor father, credits ibogaine with her healing and dedicates her book "A Christian's Guide to Psychedelics" to explaining its redemptive potential.
Beyond neurobiological repair, advocates emphasize the essential spiritual dimension of the ibogaine experience. Legislators have been moved by accounts describing ibogaine as a "confirming of our individual human divinity," helping individuals release guilt and fear while supporting lasting behavioral change.
Bryan Hubbard describes the ibogaine mission as an "emancipation movement for the mind, body, and soul," reconnecting people to their true identity and purpose. This spiritual insight is key to social healing: only by recognizing our collective divinity, Hubbard argues, can humanity overcome systemic ills. Rick Perry affirms the indispensability of the spiritual dimension of ibogaine's therapeutic power.
Rick Perry and Bryan Hubbard emphasize that states including Texas, Mississippi, Tennessee, Kentucky, and others are driving major ibogaine initiatives. Texas is launching the largest ibogaine research study to date through partnerships between the Center for Brain Health at UT Dallas, Americans for Ibogaine, and Forward Intent.
Mississippi's initiative won nearly unanimous support in both chambers and a $5 million appropriation from opioid settlement funds, with Governor Tate Reeves signing it into law. Tennessee, Missouri, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Kentucky, and West Virginia all have active bills or passed legislation. Other states considering or preparing bills include Alabama, Georgia, Idaho, Maryland, Michigan, and California. Americans for Ibogaine hosted 200 state officials from 22 states at an Aspen summit to support legislative action and create a multi-state partnership.
The strategy underlying these state-driven efforts is to circumvent federal regulatory slowdowns and form collaborative coalitions to drive unified FDA trials and speed ibogaine's clinical integration. Americans for Ibogaine has also been named by the government of Gabon as its official global partner for advancing ibogaine medicine.
Tribal nations are emerging as crucial partners. Bryan Hubbard confirms that the Choctaw Nation will seek to join Texas in expanding the ibogaine trial onto sovereign territory. On April 7, Hubbard will attend an Intertribal Council meeting to advocate for a unified tribal resolution declaring solidarity with Americans for Ibogaine.
Joe Rogan raises the possibility that tribal sovereignty could allow Native nations to establish ibogaine treatment centers independently of state and federal regulations. The inclusion of tribes promises not only faster clinical rollout but also opportunities to develop culturally informed models of care, expanding access to historically underserved communities.
1-Page Summary
Ibogaine is an alkaloid extracted from the iboga shrub, native to the central Congo basin, and has been used for centuries in the spiritual and healing traditions of the Bawiti, including Pygmies and Bantu tribes of Gabon. Since the early 1960s, researchers have found that ibogaine possesses a remarkable ability to disrupt dependence on substances, with profound implications for treating addiction and trauma.
A pivotal moment in the 1960s involved a longtime heroin addict who took ibogaine and subsequently reported no withdrawal symptoms and no desire to use drugs again. This extraordinary effect led to decades of open-label field studies, confirming ibogaine’s singular capacity to interrupt physiological addiction to opioids, alcohol, cocaine, methamphetamines, and even tobacco. Recent evidence also indicates ibogaine can dramatically reduce compulsive behaviors tied to the brain’s [restricted term] system, such as gambling.
Unlike traditional abstinence-based addiction therapies, which can take up to 18 months and see low completion rates, ibogaine has produced life-changing results with a single oral dose—eliminating addiction symptoms in 48 to 72 hours. As Rick Perry and Joe Rogan note, two doses have yielded even higher sustained recovery rates, with figures up to 98%. Not only is ibogaine non-addictive, but it is not recreational, as the intense experience discourages misuse. Numerous personal stories illustrate ibogaine's impact: a demoted Oklahoma firefighter was restored to full-time work after struggling with alcoholism, and Rick Perry describes Marcus, who overcame opioid and alcohol addiction after other treatments failed.
Ibogaine’s effects extend far beyond addiction. In 2018, U.S. Special Forces veterans began seeking ibogaine treatment in Mexico for traumatic brain injuries (TBI) and related symptoms such as depression, anxiety, and suicidality after failing to find relief through conventional pharmacology. These veterans consistently reported profound recoveries. This led Stanford University scientists, supported by philanthropic funding, to investigate. Their research demonstrated ibogaine’s neuro-regenerative capacity, detecting changes in the brain that exceed what is commonly observed in Western medicine.
Veterans’ MRIs before and after treatment showed rapid restoration of brain function, with a follow-up at six months recording an 87% rate of zero PTSD symptoms. Admiral Jim Hancock and others report significant improvements in cognition, sleep, substance use, and overall well-being. Rick Perry describes how his own brain atrophy, identified after repeated concussions, disappeared six months post-ibogaine, with a neurologist remarking that his brain resembled that of a healthy 40-year-old.
The treatment’s potential is not limited to military populations. A former Charlottesville police officer, grievously injured during riots, regained lost function; professional athletes with chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), such as former NFL player Robert Gallery, credit ibogaine with saving their lives and restoring hope. Players from the NHL and international rugby and so ...
The Medical and Therapeutic Potential of Ibogaine
At the close of 2024, advocates in Texas began mobilizing a core group of 30 individuals impacted by trauma, addiction, and the wounds of war. Inspired by a plan first put forward in Kentucky to bring Ibogaine through the FDA as a breakthrough treatment for addiction and trauma, these Texans committed their networks and resources to pursuing FDA approval of Ibogaine at the state level. Their mission was ambitious: secure unprecedented state funding for a drug development project that could address pressing public health crises and become a model for the nation.
Over a blistering 5.5-month campaign, advocates, with leaders like Bryan Hubbard and Logan Davidson of Texans for Greater Mental Health, personally lobbied and educated 188 Texas legislators about Ibogaine’s promise as a non-addictive compound with significant therapeutic potential. The campaign’s outcome was extraordinary. By mid-May 2025, 181 out of 188 members of the Texas House and Senate had agreed to support the Texas Ibogaine initiative. After a critical series of eleventh-hour negotiations with House Speaker and Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick, Texas decided not only to move forward, but to commit $100 million in public funds—making the initiative the single largest psychedelic research and medical development effort in U.S. history.
The original plan had been structured as a public-private partnership. However, Texas ultimately chose to fund the project in its entirety, launching Ibogaine’s path through the FDA drug development pipeline independently and for the public good. This bold commitment catalyzed a movement, with other states, such as Mississippi, moving quickly to follow Texas’s lead by introducing similar legislation. Rick Perry, former governor of Texas and prominent Republican, became a leading voice for Ibogaine, shifting from skepticism to calling himself the "Johnny Appleseed of Ibogaine," and helping Americans for Ibogaine spread ambassadors and chapters nationwide.
Key institutions like the Center for Brain Health in Dallas, affiliated with UT Dallas and UT Southwestern, have since joined as public collaborators, lending major credibility to the cause and reflecting the shifting landscape around psychedelic research. Perry credits these developments as the most personally meaningful project of his life, recognizing its potential to save families devastated by addiction.
Rick Perry and Bryan Hubbard have provided the movement with high-profile leadership. Perry, whose background includes decades of opposition to drug liberalization rooted in his Air Force service and the "Just Say No" era, describes a personal transformation fueled by relationships with wounded veterans and their struggles with addiction. Bryan Hubbard, meanwhile, has played a critical policy role, helping to craft legislative language and advocate for the FDA trial. Together, they have inspired bipartisan credibility and momentum. Joe Rogan, in conversations with Perry, emphasized that Perry’s Republican credentials have made the cause more relatable across the spectrum and earned wider seriousness.
One of the movement’s biggest challenges remains the federal classification of Ibogaine as a Schedule I substance, a vestige of the Nixon-era war on drugs. Schedule I is reserved for drugs with "no medical use" and "high abuse potential"—criteria that Ibogaine does not meet, according to its supporters. Both Perry and Hubbard recount the broader context: decades of punitive drug policy intended to target marginalized groups rather than sound science.
W. Bryan Hubbard explains that federal "right to try" legislation technically allows patients with life-threatening conditions to access medications that have cleared phase one safety trials. However, the DEA has refused to include Schedule I substances in this provision, even after the law’s sponsor, Senator Kyrsten Sinema, confirmed its language was meant to be inclusive. Hubbard calls this a "fictitious legal reality" maintained by bureaucratic inertia and demands executive action to correct it.
Both Perry and Hubbard argue that ultimately, a directive from the President of the United States is required to reschedule Ibogaine—potentially from Schedule I to Schedule II or III—or to instruct the ...
Ibogaine Legalization and Promotion Efforts
Personal accounts and clinical observations highlight Ibogaine’s transformative impact for individuals facing trauma, addiction, neurological disorders, and severe psychological wounds. These stories, drawn from military veterans, athletes, abuse survivors, first responders, and advocates, frame Ibogaine as both a medical and spiritual intervention with profound therapeutic potential.
Rick Perry and advocates relay clinical evidence and deeply personal testimonies supporting Ibogaine as a breakthrough for treating opioid addiction, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and traumatic brain injury (TBI)—especially among former military, first responders, and professional athletes. Dr. Gull Dolan’s work, cited by Perry, highlights a critical period of 48 to 72 hours in which Ibogaine enables neuroplastic healing, “repairing and resetting the brain.” Perry quotes trials showing up to 85% of people addicted to opioids can become clean within 72 hours.
The organization Forward Intent has funded more than 250 Americans—veterans, athletes, first responders—traveling to Ibogaine treatment centers in Mexico, including Transend and AMBO, where demand now outpaces capacity. AMBO alone has treated around 2,000 additional fighters. Veterans find Ibogaine effective for both addiction and PTSD after conventional systems let them down. Marcus and Morgan Luttrell personally attested to Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick that Ibogaine saved their lives and those of fellow combat veterans. Perry recalls Marcus arriving at the governor’s mansion in 2007 “on the doorstep of committing suicide,” suffering from opioid addiction masked with alcohol. Despite multiple failed rehab attempts, Marcus became “completely clean” after Ibogaine, and credits it for helping with PTSD and brain injury as well.
Many others mirror this pattern of life-restoring outcomes. A firefighter from Oklahoma emerged sober after decades of alcoholism. A Charlottesville police officer found relief from traumatic injury. A military pilot suffering from moral injury and insomnia experienced restored well-being and cognitive function. Robert Gallery, a former NFL player with CTE and suicidal thoughts, credits Ibogaine with saving his life. Rear Admiral Jim Hancock, who served as Chief of the Navy Medical Corps, also received Ibogaine for wounds of war.
Clinical trials with 30 veterans, all with moderate to severe PTSD and some with alcohol addiction, demonstrate significant benefits. Even among non-military, Perry shares his own concussion and insomnia history—severe knockouts and anxiety that no one in his professional life knew about. After Ibogaine, brain scans reportedly showed a 27% increase in prefrontal cortex activity a week post-treatment, linked to better focus, concentration, and emotion regulation.
Bryan Hubbard describes “Lonnie,” who after multiple concussions and a traumatic brain injury, regained both motor and cognitive function thanks to Ibogaine. The restoration went beyond mere symptom relief, allowing Lonnie to return to a normal life.
Ibogaine also provides breakthroughs for survivors of extreme psychological wounds. Two fashion model twins, abused for a decade by their father, developed eating disorders and treatment-resistant neuroses. After exhausting every other option, Ibogaine restored their quality of life and joy, a story documented on the Americans for Ibogaine website.
Author Wendi Rees, sexually abused by her own father—a church pastor—credits Ibogaine with her healing and dedicates her book “A Christian’s Guide to Psychedelics” to explaining its redemptive potential. Another testimony comes from a volunteer at a clinic for sexual abuse survivors, who recounts how a girl named Tamara—after suffering horrific abuse at age 10 and turning to opioids post-surgery—was later encountered again, incarcerated from [restricted term] dependency. These stories reinforce the unique capacity of Ibogaine to heal wounds both psychological and spiritual when all else fails.
Hubbard points to stories where children’s trauma led to lifelong compulsions—such as eating disorders—only finally alleviated after Ibogaine therapy. These were last-resort cases, where every traditional therapy had failed.
Personal Experiences and Testimonies About Ibogaine's Impact
Efforts to advance ibogaine research and clinical access have accelerated at the state and tribal levels, bypassing lengthy federal processes to confront addiction, PTSD, and trauma-related disorders.
Rick Perry and Bryan Hubbard emphasize that states such as Texas, Mississippi, Tennessee, Kentucky, and others are driving major ibogaine initiatives. Rick Perry notes that Texas is “proving without a doubt” to legislatures nationwide—including Mississippi, Tennessee, Arizona, West Virginia, and more—that ibogaine has a legitimate medical purpose for conditions like PTSD, sexual trauma, and addiction. Texas, through new partnerships between the Center for Brain Health at the University of Texas at Dallas, Americans for Ibogaine, and Forward Intent, is launching the largest ibogaine research study to date. This study focuses on ibogaine's effects on the brain, particularly in veterans, and is designed to answer practical questions regarding benefits and impacts on daily functioning.
Other states are rapidly aligning with this approach. In Tennessee, two bills—one in the house and one in the senate—are moving swiftly, with the Senate Finance Committee unanimously advancing their bill. Ricky Harris leads the Tennessee campaign. In Missouri, two active bills (House Bill 2817 and Senate Bill 1581) are under consideration. Oklahoma’s House has passed its ibogaine bill, which now awaits Senate consideration. Louisiana introduced Senate Bill 43, aiming to join Texas. Kentucky’s Senate passed Senate Bill 77 by a wide margin; it awaits action in the House. West Virginia’s House of Delegates and Senate both passed their bill unanimously, and it has been sent to the governor for signing.
Mississippi's initiative stands out for tying directly to Texas, winning nearly unanimous support in both state chambers and a $5 million appropriation from opioid settlement funds to develop ibogaine as a breakthrough trauma and addiction treatment for state residents. Governor Tate Reeves has signed this legislation into law.
Rick Perry highlights Texas and Mississippi’s early adoption, now joined by others, as key to creating a national movement. W. Bryan Hubbard describes Kentucky's rollout, which combined opioid settlement dollars, extensive public input from 20 statewide town halls, and a focus on access and transparency to determine funding priorities. Kentucky now has the opportunity to directly address addiction's tragic toll from previous decades. General Glenn Curtis is a visible advocate for Louisiana’s pending legislation. At Stanford, Dr. Nolan Williams ran a 30-veteran ibogaine trial, pioneering the data-gathering needed to educate the public and inform policy.
Other states considering or preparing bills to join Texas in ibogaine trials and reform include Alabama, Georgia, Idaho, Maryland, Michigan, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Vermont, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, South Dakota, and California. National momentum is growing: Americans for Ibogaine hosted 200 state officials from 22 states at an Aspen, Colorado summit to support legislative action and create a multi-state partnership, bypassing what they view as a slow, incompetent, and sometimes corrupt federal bureaucracy. Governor Perry and Bryan Hubbard’s efforts at the American Legislative Exchange Council led to a formal ALEC endorsement and model legislation supporting a unified state-based approach for ibogaine drug development.
The strategy underlying these state-driven efforts is to circumvent federal regulatory slowdowns and instead form collaborative coalitions—effectively “crashing through the federal wall”—to drive unified FDA trials and speed ibogaine’s clinical integration. States are appropriating funds, joining research networks, and creating external coalitions anchored by Texas’ leadership.
Americans for Ibogaine has a ...
State and Tribal Ibogaine Initiatives
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