#2368 - Michael Button
In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, Michael Button discusses evidence suggesting human civilization may be much older than commonly accepted. He points to archaeological discoveries like the 476,000-year-old Colombo structure in Zambia and the 12,000-year-old Göbekli Tepe site, which challenge traditional timelines of human development and capabilities.
Button and Rogan examine several historical puzzles, including the simultaneous emergence of agriculture across different continents and the existence of sophisticated pre-neolithic societies. They also explore unusual archaeological findings, such as ancient Peruvian mummies with distinct physical characteristics, and discuss how these discoveries might relate to folklore and mythology while questioning conventional theories about human evolution and history.
This is a preview of the Shortform summary of the Aug 20, 2025 episode of the The Joe Rogan Experience
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1-Page Summary
Challenging the Conventional Timeline of History and Civilization
In this podcast episode, Michael Button and Joe Rogan explore evidence suggesting that human civilization might be far older than traditionally accepted. Button points to the 476,000-year-old Colombo structure as evidence that sophisticated human settlements may have existed long before the Neolithic Revolution.
Questions About Human Progress
Button and Rogan discuss several peculiarities in human history, including the simultaneous emergence of agriculture across different continents after 300,000 years of human existence. They also examine the significance of Göbekli Tepe, a 12,000-year-old site that suggests sophisticated human culture existed before the Mesopotamian civilizations. Button criticizes the academic community's resistance to alternative historical narratives and questions the conventional wisdom that humans became "smart" only 50-60,000 years ago.
Evidence of Potential Advanced Ancient Civilizations
The discussion delves into specific archaeological sites that challenge our understanding of human capabilities. Button highlights that Göbekli Tepe is part of a network of at least 14 sites sharing megalithic architecture and symbolism, indicating a complex pre-neolithic society. The site's intentional burial 11,000 years ago and its sophisticated acoustic and cosmic alignments suggest advanced organizational capabilities.
The conversation also covers other mysterious findings, including the Colombo structure in Zambia and enigmatic "cart ruts" in Turkey and Malta that appear to be millions of years old. Button observes that archaeology's "preservation problem" might lead to overlooking evidence of advanced ancient civilizations.
Anomalous Human-Like Remains and Their Connection to Folklore
Rogan and Button examine unusual archaeological discoveries, including Peruvian mummies from 700-1700 years ago with three-fingered limbs and elongated skulls. They discuss these findings' potential connection to folklore and mythology, including their similarity to descriptions of beings in ancient narratives. Button suggests these discoveries might indicate that intelligent life existed on Earth before humans, challenging our current understanding of human evolution and history.
1-Page Summary
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Counterarguments
- The age of the Colombo structure and its interpretation as evidence of ancient human settlements might be contested by the lack of corroborating evidence such as tools, artifacts, or other signs of human life from that period.
- The simultaneous emergence of agriculture could be explained by convergent evolution or independent development rather than implying a coordinated or shared ancient knowledge.
- Göbekli Tepe's age and sophistication might not necessarily overturn the timeline of human civilization but could indicate that complex societies arose earlier than previously thought without challenging the broader timeline.
- The idea that humans became "smart" only 50-60,000 years ago is a simplification, and there is evidence of complex behavior in humans and even Neanderthals before this period.
- The network of sites with megalithic architecture could be interpreted as evidence of widespread but not necessarily connected cultures that developed similar building techniques independently.
- The intentional burial of Göbekli Tepe could have reasons other than advanced organizational capabilities, such as religious or cultural practices not yet fully understood.
- Claims about the age of the Colombo structure in Zambia and "cart ruts" in Turkey and Malta being millions of years old would require more rigorous scientific validation to be considered credible.
- The "preservation problem" in archaeology is well-known, but it does not necessarily imply that evidence of advanced ancient civilizations has been overlooked; it may simply mean that organic materials and less durable structures have not survived.
- The unusual features of Peruvian mummies could be the result of cultural practices such as artificial cranial deformation rather than evidence of non-human intelligent life.
- Connections between archaeological findings and folklore or mythology must be approached with caution to avoid conflating speculative interpretations with evidence-based historical understanding.
Actionables
- You can explore ancient human ingenuity by creating a themed garden using techniques inspired by early agriculture. Research the earliest crops domesticated by ancient civilizations and attempt to grow them using natural methods that mimic ancient farming practices. This hands-on approach can give you a deeper appreciation for the innovation and adaptability of early humans.
- Enhance your problem-solving skills by organizing a "mystery history" game night with friends. Design puzzles and challenges based on the architectural and organizational complexities of sites like Göbekli Tepe. This activity can help you understand the advanced thinking of ancient societies and apply similar strategic thinking to modern-day problems.
- Broaden your cultural perspective by starting a creative writing project that weaves ancient myths and archaeological findings into modern narratives. Use the intriguing details like the Peruvian mummies with three-fingered limbs and elongated skulls to craft stories that challenge conventional views of history and evolution, fostering a more open-minded approach to understanding human development.
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Challenging the Conventional Timeline of History and Civilization
Michael Button is questioning mainstream historical timelines and suggests that there could be more to our past than we currently accept.
Michael Button Questions the Accepted Timeline for the Rise of Sophisticated Civilization
Button finds the conventional narrative of human history questionable, especially based on recent archaeological discoveries.
Mainstream History Claims Nothing Happened Before the Neolithic Revolution, but the 476,000-Year-Old Colombo Structure Suggests Earlier Permanent Human Settlements
Michael Button discusses the Colombo structure, an archaeological discovery that suggests humans could have been building complex societies far earlier than the accepted timeline indicates. The 476,000-year-old structure's state of preservation implies that sophisticated civilization potentially predates the Neolithic Revolution by hundreds of thousands of years. This introduces the possibility that our ancestors were capable of planning, building, and potentially forming permanent settlements much earlier than traditionally believed.
Michael Button Questions Academic Timeline of Human Progress
Why Agriculture Was Invented Simultaneously After 300,000 Years
Button and Joe Rogan ponder how agriculture seems to have appeared almost simultaneously around the world after a long period of human existence without it. This simultaneous invention, occurring in regions as disparate as South America, Mesopotamia, and ancient China, questions why such a critical development in human history took so long to appear and then did so in multiple locations around the same period.
Göbekli Tepe-Mesopotamian Civilizations Gap
Button references Göbekli Tepe, a site dating back 12,000 years that implies the presence of sophisticated human culture before the Mesopotamian civilizations previously thought to be the earliest. He criticizes the narrow definition of civilization based on ancient Sumer and encourages a recognition of human adaptability and the ability to thrive under varied conditions. Rogan speculates about a potential gap between Göbekli Tepe and ancient Sumer, hinting at a possible cataclysm that led to a more primitive existence for a period afterward.
In their conversation, Button and Rogan discuss the fear-based nature of academic culture where proposing alternati ...
Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary
Challenging the Conventional Timeline of History and Civilization
Additional Materials
Counterarguments
- The Colombo structure's age and significance might be misinterpreted or overestimated; further peer-reviewed research is necessary to confirm its implications for human history.
- The idea that agriculture appeared simultaneously worldwide might be an oversimplification, as there is evidence of gradual development and independent discovery rather than a synchronous event.
- Göbekli Tepe's significance is well-recognized, but it does not necessarily negate the achievements of Mesopotamian civilizations or redefine the concept of civilization itself.
- The academic community's resistance to alternative narratives can be seen as a necessary caution to maintain scholarly rigor and prevent the spread of unfounded theories.
- The mainstream narrative of a sudden burst of human intelligence is based on a wealth of archaeological and genetic evidence, which suggests a gradual increase in complex behavior rather than an overnight change.
- The discovery of modern human remains in Morocco is significant, ...
Actionables
- You can explore alternative historical theories by reading books from authors who challenge conventional timelines, such as Graham Hancock or Robert Schoch, to gain a broader perspective on human history.
- Diving into these works will expose you to different viewpoints and evidence that may not be widely accepted in mainstream academia. For example, Hancock's "Fingerprints of the Gods" and Schoch's "Forgotten Civilization" offer insights into ancient civilizations that could reshape your understanding of human progress.
- Start a casual book club with friends focused on alternative history to encourage discussion and critical thinking about human civilization's origins.
- This can be a fun and social way to delve into the subject matter. You might select a book that presents a non-mainstream view of history, read it together, and meet regularly to discuss its implications and the evidence presented, comparing it to the established historical narrative.
- Engage in online fo ...
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Evidence of Potential Advanced Ancient Civilizations
Michael Button and Joe Rogan delve into the mysteries and enigmas surrounding ancient structures and civilizations that may indicate the existence of sophistication long before the understood historical timeline.
Göbekli Tepe Shifts Understanding of Past Human Capabilities
Göbekli Tepe has introduced a paradigm shift in how we perceive the capabilities of past human societies.
Megalithic Architecture Indicates Advanced Pre-neolithic Organization
Discussing Göbekli Tepe and the Tashtapella culture, Michael Button highlights that at least 14 sites share megalithic architecture and symbolism, indicating a complex and interconnected society. Joe Rogan stresses Göbekli Tepe's significance as evidence of complex structures from over 10,000 years ago. The fact that Göbekli Tepe was intentionally buried around 11,000 years ago points to a level of organization before the Neolithic era. These structures were built with acoustic qualities and cosmic alignments in mind, which mainstream archaeology often does not acknowledge.
Button reflects on the surplus resources that the builders must have had, challenging the traditional definition of hunter-gatherers. Rogan considers Turkey as a potential birthplace of civilization, while Button suggests that new findings, such as those at Göbekli Tepe, point to advanced capabilities in pre-neolithic times.
Mysterious Ancient Sites Defy Explanations
Several ancient sites offer clues that defy our conventional historical understanding.
Zambia's 476,000-Year-Old Colombo Structure Reveals Early Complex Woodworking and Construction Skills
The Colombo structure in Zambia, dating back 476,000 years, showcases complex woodworking and construction skills. This discovery suggests sophisticated civilization far earlier than widely recognized, contradicting established timelines.
Enigmatic "Cart Ruts" in Turkey, Malta Appear Artificial yet Date Millions of Years Ago
Cart ruts discovered in Turkey and Malta challenge conventional historical understanding. These fossilized tracks, near volcanic rock analyzed to be around 12 to 14 million years old, suggest the possibility of an advanced, ancient, and unknown civilization. Despite mainstream belief that these were created by vehicles pulled by animals, the true origin and age of these structures remain topics of hot debate.
Archaeology May Overlook Advanced Ancient Civilizations
The reluctance to accept new archaeological findings might lead to an oversight in understanding ancient civilizations.
Academics Often Resist Ideas Challenging Established Narratives
Button observes a "preservation problem" in the field of archaeology, with the potential of overlooking advanced ancient civilizations. Rogan and Button express frustration ...
Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary
Evidence of Potential Advanced Ancient Civilizations
Additional Materials
Counterarguments
- The interpretation of Göbekli Tepe's significance is still under scholarly debate, and while it is indeed old, its role in redefining human history is not universally agreed upon.
- The level of organization required for Göbekli Tepe's construction does not necessarily indicate a sophisticated civilization but could reflect a complex social structure within a hunter-gatherer context.
- The intentional burial of Göbekli Tepe could have cultural or ritual significance rather than being an indicator of advanced organization.
- Acoustic qualities and cosmic alignments in ancient structures can sometimes be interpreted as coincidental rather than intentional.
- The existence of complex woodworking and construction skills in ancient times does not automatically imply a sophisticated civilization but could indicate isolated pockets of advanced knowledge.
- The dating of cart ruts and their association with ancient civilizations is contentious, with some geologists and archaeologists questioning the methods used to date these features.
- Resistance in academia to new ideas is often a necessary part of the scientific process, ensuring rigorous scrutiny and validation of new theories before they are accepted.
- The idea that younger scholars are more open to new ideas is a generalization and does not account for the individual variability in openness to ne ...
Actionables
- You can explore ancient history through virtual reality tours to gain a deeper understanding of sites like Göbekli Tepe. By using VR apps that simulate archaeological sites, you immerse yourself in the ancient world, experiencing the scale and complexity of megalithic structures firsthand, which can alter your perception of prehistoric human capabilities.
- Start a creative writing project inspired by the mysteries of ancient civilizations. Write short stories or a novel that weaves together elements from Göbekli Tepe, the Colombo structure, and other ancient sites, using the idea of advanced prehistoric societies as a backdrop. This can help you internalize the concept of a misunderstood timeline of human civilization and the potential for sophisticated societies lost to history.
- Engage in a citizen s ...
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Anomalous Human-Like Remains and Their Connection to Folklore/Mythology
Mummified Peruvian Remains: Inhuman Features, Three-Fingered Limbs, Elongated Skulls
Joe Rogan and Michael Button delve into the perplexing findings of the tridactyl mummies in Peru. These 700 to 1700-year-old mummies display fully intact bone structures that differ from human anatomy, characterized by three toes and elongated skulls. The tissues, ligaments, tendons, cartilage, and joints found indicate they were once living creatures. Artwork depicting similar entities with three fingers and toes echoes these physical traits, suggesting a connection to folklore or mythology.
The Nazca Lines, massive geoglyphs that can only be seen from the sky, include figures resembling astronauts, adding to the enigma. Moreover, the conversation implies that historical narratives could be upended by such alternative discoveries, though specifics are not addressed in the transcript.
"1990s Virginia/Brazil Ufo Crash: Humanoid Creature Linked To Peruvian Mummies"
Joe Rogan refers to a 1990s incident wherein a soldier who came into contact with a humanoid creature from a UFO crash later died from a mysterious bacterial infection that resisted antibiotics. This creature emitted a sulfur-like odor and its physical description paralleled the mummified bodies, drawing a line between the two enigmas. Michael Button highlights their resemblance to ancient narrations, fueling speculation over the complex tapestry of human history.
Anomalous Discoveries Challenge Complete Understanding of Human Ancestry and Evolution
Button posits the idea that intelligent life might have predated humans and remained undetected in the fossil record d ...
Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary
Anomalous Human-Like Remains and Their Connection to Folklore/Mythology
Additional Materials
Counterarguments
- The physical anomalies of the Peruvian mummies could be the result of known cultural practices, such as artificial cranial deformation, rather than evidence of non-human species.
- Artwork and mythology often include exaggerated or fantastical elements that are not meant to be taken as literal representations of real creatures.
- The Nazca Lines have been interpreted in various ways, and the astronaut-like figures could be symbolic or religious in nature rather than depictions of extraterrestrial visitors.
- The connection between the 1990s UFO incident and the mummified remains is speculative and not supported by direct evidence.
- The sulfur-like odor reported in the UFO incident could have a natural explanation, such as contamination from environmental sources or decomposition.
- Anomalous discoveries often have conventional explanations that fit within the current understanding of human ancestry and evolution, which are not considered in the text.
- The fossil record, while incomplete, provides substantial evidence for the evolution of human beings without the need for pre-human intelligent life.
- The idea o ...
Actionables
- You can explore local folklore by visiting museums or cultural centers to gain a deeper appreciation for the historical context of such stories. By learning about the myths and legends of your own region, you might find parallels to the Peruvian mummies and their associated folklore, which can enrich your understanding of how different cultures interpret unexplained phenomena.
- Start a creative writing project inspired by the concept of ancient, non-human entities coexisting with humans. Use the descriptions of the Peruvian mummies as a starting point to develop characters and a narrative that weaves together science fiction and historical elements, allowing you to engage with the idea in a personal and imaginative way.
- Engage in citizen scienc ...
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