In this episode of The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett, Nicola Kilner, co-founder and CEO of Deciem, shares her journey from retail to building a beauty company centered on belonging and authenticity. Kilner discusses how Deciem's unconventional multi-brand strategy and family-like culture have shaped the company, while addressing the tensions between kindness and high performance, and the challenges of scaling from startup chaos to enterprise structure.
Kilner offers a candid perspective on leadership, openly acknowledging her gaps in traditional CEO skills and explaining how strategic delegation has allowed her to focus on brand, culture, and people. The conversation explores the evolving nature of work-life balance, questioning whether startup intensity is necessary for success and emphasizing that authentic alignment between personal values and professional choices varies across individuals and life stages. You'll come away with insights into building organizational culture and leading with self-awareness.

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Brandon's philosophy for Deciem centers on building a workplace that feels like family—rooted in his desire to create the sense of belonging he lacked growing up. Nicola Kilner explains that Deciem's North Star value is belonging, where employees feel accepted regardless of who they are. This commitment has fostered deep bonds among team members that transcend typical corporate connections, creating a sense of "we're all in this together" and loyalty matching that of close family.
The startup environment's intensity created relationships much deeper than those Kilner encountered in corporate settings like Boots. Early team members felt they would "take a bullet" for each other, and many remain with the company as it's grown to 1,500 people. Brandon prioritized team bonding through shared experiences—company trips included visits to Niagara Falls, theme parks, shared meals, and ice cream runs. Everyone, including founders, would work in the factory during busy periods, demonstrating a collective willingness to support the company's mission.
Kilner stresses the distinction between kindness and niceness in Deciem's culture. Being nice is superficial, while kindness involves honest, difficult conversations aimed at helping teammates grow or find better-suited roles. Addressing underperformance directly is an act of kindness when the intention is supportive. Kilner acknowledges that sustaining this culture requires meeting financial realities—business performance underpins everything. High performance is viewed not as contradicting kindness but as integral to sustaining it, ensuring security and an environment where difficult decisions can be made with genuine concern for individuals.
Bartlett notes that much cultivating a dedicated culture happens outside formal work hours. Kilner agrees, emphasizing that the best ideas often emerge during informal moments rather than structured work time. Early Deciem days were fueled by youthful passion—the team enjoyed working together, and this joy translated directly into results. Deciem's culture encourages fun, learning, and experimentation without fear of failure. The use of WhatsApp groups for real-time brainstorming highlights how communication and camaraderie transform professional life into a collective voyage.
Nicola Kilner begins her career at Boots, progressing from assistant buyer to buying manager, where she gains experience in supply chain management and learns to spot innovations. She becomes heavily involved in "Latest Finds," an initiative to trial new products, learning that post-launch consumer engagement is critical. Through this work, she meets Brandon Truaxe, founder of Indeed Labs. When Brandon departs for new ventures, Nicola shares her idea for a beauty product ranking site with him, and he proposes she join him in co-founding Deciem. Despite concerns from family and friends about leaving stability, Nicola takes the leap at 24.
Deciem's strategy is to operate as a "company of 10 brands," reflected in an office sign reading "focus is overrated." The rationale is creating an integrated ecosystem where manufacturing, communications, and R&D happen in-house, allowing fixed costs to be spread across multiple brands. Instead of outsourcing everything, Deciem builds an environment where everyone works closely together, realizing economies of scale. The multi-brand approach encourages experimentation—rather than risk everything on a single idea, the company can test, fail, and pivot rapidly.
With The Ordinary's explosive success, resources and team focus naturally gravitate toward the main revenue generator, leading to neglect of smaller brands. Nicola acknowledges that the original incubator engine stalls as teams become unavailable to nurture new brands. To rejuvenate innovation, the organization dedicates specific resources to ensure every brand can progress and potentially thrive.
Kilner considers herself the least qualified CEO by conventional metrics, openly admitting she lacks expertise in finance, planning, and detailed operations. Instead, she identifies as a people person focused on values and brand rather than metrics. Her self-awareness has been repeatedly noted by her team, who appreciate her lack of ego and willingness to acknowledge gaps without defensiveness. For Kilner, authenticity is at the heart of effective leadership—trying to be something you're not is unsustainable.
Understanding her limitations, Kilner brought in a general manager with significant supply chain and operations experience to fill gaps in basic processes and transform operations. This strategic delegation allowed Kilner to focus on her core strengths: brand, people, culture, and social impact. The arrival of the manager was transformative, balancing the company's passion with the operational expertise necessary for scaling.
Kilner emphasizes that different leadership skills are required as organizations grow. In small startups, quick decisions and chaos can be energizing, but in larger organizations like Deciem with 1,500 staff, such chaos becomes demotivating. Kilner acknowledges that transitioning from startup agility to corporate structure isn't about personal failure but about embracing mature leadership and delegating areas where others have stronger expertise.
Kilner observes that chaos energizes startups but demotivates large organizations. As the company scaled, the lack of basic systems became a liability. The decision to bring on a GM marked a pivotal point, allowing Kilner to shift focus toward her passions while the GM established foundational systems.
After initially exceeding targets, a post-Covid performance dip shook Kilner's confidence and led her to repeatedly offer resignation to Stefan from Estée Lauder Companies, their parent company. However, reassurance from ELC leadership emphasized that challenges were rooted in structural issues, not leadership failure, and could be addressed through organizational changes.
Kilner highlights the importance of preserving brand authenticity, asserting that brand identity and culture demand in-house expertise and founder-level passion. In contrast, operational functions benefit from experienced professional management. The optimal setup is a blend: founders offer mission guidance while delegated professionals manage operations and growth.
Bartlett questions the idea of universal work-life balance, and Kilner agrees that the right balance varies by individual and changes across life stages. She recalls her 20s, when she willingly prioritized work, finding deep happiness in building something extraordinary. Kilner emphasizes that what constitutes balance evolves as life changes—there are seasons when one might joyfully invest most hours into work, while at other times personal circumstances may require stepping back.
Kilner reflects on how working weekends and evenings was normalized at Deciem and in early startups. While sometimes fueled by genuine passion, this intensity raises questions about whether it's necessary for success. With growing awareness of mental health and burnout, contemporary perspectives now question whether demanding work-life sacrifice is essential or if sustainable practices yield better long-term results.
Kilner believes authenticity in work arises when personal interests and capabilities align with the work itself. When engagement is fueled by genuine alignment, work can be energizing rather than depleting. By aligning values with choices, individuals and teams can find purpose, maintain balance, and create extraordinary outcomes without compromising wellbeing.
1-Page Summary
Brandon’s philosophy for Deciem centers on building a workplace that feels like family—a response to his troubled upbringing and a desire to create a sense of belonging that he may not have experienced at home. Nicola Kilner describes how Deciem’s North Star value is belonging, emphasizing that employees should feel accepted regardless of who they are or what they believe. This commitment has resulted in deep bonds among team members that go far beyond typical corporate connections. Kilner reflects that at Deciem, people cared for one another intensely and reciprocated love, generating a familial sense of internal support. During tough times, there was a palpable sense of “we’re all in this together,” and loyalty among colleagues matched what one might find in a close family—if an outsider criticized someone on the team, others would immediately defend them.
The intensity and camaraderie of the startup environment fostered relationships that Kilner says are much deeper than those she encountered in corporate environments like Boots. Early team members often felt as if they would “take a bullet” for each other—a bond so strong that many are still with the company as it has grown to 1,500 people. Work at Deciem felt less like employment and more like sharing a journey or adventure together, traveling, building something special, and collectively taking on challenges.
Brandon prioritized team bonding through shared experiences outside of work. Company meetings and business trips included visits to Niagara Falls, theme parks in Toronto, shared meals, and spontaneous ice cream runs. These outings blurred the line between work and fun, making enjoyment and togetherness central to work life. Even during busy periods, everyone—including founders and office staff—would work in the factory or warehouse to fulfill orders, demonstrating a collective willingness to “wear every hat” and support the company’s mission.
Nicola Kilner stresses the distinction between kindness and niceness in the Deciem culture. Being nice can be superficial—greetings and pleasantries—whereas kindness involves honest, sometimes difficult, conversations aimed at helping teammates grow or find better-suited roles. Addressing underperformance directly is seen as an act of kindness if the intention is to support the person, whether through training, coaching, role adjustments, or, if necessary, guiding them to opportunities beyond the company.
Kilner acknowledges that sustaining a culture of kindness requires financial realities to be met; business performance underpins everything. If targets aren’t hit and financial pressures mount, layoffs or other tough decisions become necessary. Deciem aims to approach these moments compassionately by providing support systems like counseling and career transition assistance to help employees move on productively and with dignity. High performance is viewed not as contradicting kindness but as integral to sustaining it: a performin ...
Company Culture and Building a "Family" Organization
Nicola Kilner begins her career at Boots, progressing from assistant buyer to buying manager. In this role, she gains key experience in building relationships, collaborating across departments, and mastering the supply chain for consumer goods. She learns to spot innovations and handhold entrepreneurs through the process of launching products at Boots, working closely with finance, legal, and other departments to assess feasibility and compliance. She also develops an understanding of demand creation—learning that getting a product listed in-store is just the start, while real success requires generating consumer pull.
Nicola is heavily involved in Boots’ “Latest Finds,” an initiative to trial new products for three months and determine their suitability for long-term stocking. She learns to guide brands on launching products, works with PR agencies, and crafts plans to drive product awareness—recognizing that post-launch consumer engagement is critical. Through this, Nicola meets Brandon Truaxe, founder of Indeed Labs, whose energetic partnership leaves a strong impression.
Eventually, Brandon departs Indeed Labs for new ventures, and Nicola, seeking a more entrepreneurial path, shares her idea for a beauty product ranking site with him. Brandon proposes that she join him in co-founding Deciem, a company with the ambitious plan of running multiple brands at once across beauty, technology, and food. Despite concerns from family and friends about leaving a stable position, Nicola takes the leap at 24, co-founding Deciem and marking the start of a new phase in her career.
Deciem’s strategy is to operate as a “company of 10 brands,” flying in the face of typical business advice emphasizing focus. On the office wall in Melbourne, a sign reads “focus is overrated,” reflecting Deciem’s core philosophy. The rationale is to create an integrated ecosystem where manufacturing, communications, R&D, and operations happen in-house. This allows fixed costs—such as professional communications teams—to be spread across multiple brands, making high-caliber support accessible to each.
Instead of the common startup model, where entrepreneurs outsource PR, labs, and R&D—becoming mere coordinators—Deciem builds an environment where everyone generating ideas works closely together. In this structure, economies of scale are realized: a trip to meet buye ...
Entrepreneurial Journey and Strategy
Nicola Kilner considers herself the least qualified CEO by conventional metrics, especially in areas expected from leaders at her level such as finance, planning, and operations. She openly admits she is not the CEO who deeply understands numbers, nor is she skilled in detailed planning. Despite her history with the company from the beginning, Kilner believes that if she were to go to another billion-dollar company with 1,500 employees, she wouldn't be a good fit for the typical CEO role by traditional standards. Instead, she identifies as more of a people person, focused on values and brand rather than metrics and systems.
Kilner recognizes that many areas are simply not her strengths. She is forthright about her lack of expertise in finance, relying instead on a capable VP of Finance and a general manager who understand these aspects deeply. Her self-awareness has been repeatedly noted by her team, who appreciate her lack of ego and her willingness to acknowledge skills gaps without defensiveness or pretending competence. Even early in her career at Boots, Kilner considered whether her skill set aligned with prospective roles, asking herself what truly made her happy. Her team describes her as instinctively knowing her strengths and weaknesses, delegating well, and being unafraid to bring in talent to address her gaps.
For Kilner, authenticity is at the heart of effective leadership. She believes that trying to be something you're not is unsustainable, and authenticity is increasingly valued in today’s world.
Kilner’s approach to her own career, both in earlier roles and as CEO, has been consistently guided by self-awareness and a desire for authenticity. She evaluates opportunities based on fit with her strengths and the kind of work that fulfills her.
Understanding her limitations, Kilner took decisive action to bring in complementary expertise. She hired a manager who brought significant supply chain, scaling, and operations experience, areas that the company struggled with as it grew rapidly without solid foundational systems. The new general manager recognized gaps in basic processes and quickly transformed operations, filling in the missing infrastructure needed to support growth.
This strategic delegation allowed Kilner to focus on her core strengths and passions: brand, people, culture, belonging, and social impact. By removing herself from the day-to-day management of operations, she made a significant positive difference to the business. The arrival of the manager was transformative, balancing the company's pas ...
Leadership, Self-Awareness, and Delegation
Nicola Kilner observes that chaos and rapid decision-making inject energy into startups but can have the opposite effect in large organizations, where chaos quickly becomes demotivating. As the company scaled, the lack of basic systems and processes became a liability, generating inefficiencies apparent at a larger scale. Kilner describes how the rapid growth outpaced the organizational infrastructure, resulting in gaps that hindered performance and coordination. The decision to bring on a General Manager (GM) marked a pivotal point: the GM's professional expertise in establishing foundational systems allowed Kilner to shift focus toward her passions—brand, people, culture, belonging, and social impact. This addition enabled the recalibration of priorities, balancing the need for professional management with the flexibility that fueled early growth.
The business initially enjoyed a meteoric rise, consistently exceeding financial targets, which fostered a sense of confidence and momentum. However, a post-Covid performance dip shook Kilner's confidence as CEO and led her to consider resignation, feeling overwhelmed and uncertain of her capability to lead through the challenge. She recounts repeatedly offering to resign to Stefan from Estée Lauder Companies (ELC), their parent company, believing she might be the issue. However, reassurance from ELC leadership emphasized that the challenges were rooted in structural issues—not leadership failure—and could be addressed through organizational changes rather than a change at the top. Navigating through this period required Kilner to balance meeting financial targets with maintaining the company's values of organizational kindness and culture.
Scaling Challenges and Organizational Evolution
Steven Bartlett questions the idea of a universal work-life balance, arguing that it assumes everyone should strike the same kind of balance between work and life. Nicola Kilner agrees, asserting that the right balance varies by individual and changes across different life stages. She recalls her 20s, when she willingly prioritized work over social activities, finding deep happiness and meaning in building something extraordinary with her team. For Kilner at that stage, work was not just a job but also a passion and a hobby, blurring the line between professional and personal fulfillment.
Kilner emphasizes that what constitutes balance evolves as life changes. There are seasons when one might joyfully invest most hours into work because it brings purpose, while at other times, personal circumstances—such as supporting an elderly parent or raising young children—may require stepping back. Kilner advocates for teams to support each other when life demands shift, understanding that the need for a different balance is both natural and cyclical.
Kilner reflects on the culture at Deciem and in early startups, noting how working weekends and evenings was normalized and often expected. This culture, while sometimes fueled by genuine passion, raises questions about whether such intensity is healthy or necessary. Kilner observes that, with growing awareness of mental health and burnout, contemporary perspectives now question whether enduring such work habits is a true necessity for success or merely a cultural leftover that can diminish team wellbeing and retention.
Today’s leaders must consider whether demanding work-life sacrifice is essential for a competitive edge or if sustainable practices yield better results in the long run. Kilner suggests tha ...
Work-Life Balance, Authenticity, and Startup Culture
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