In this episode of The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett, neuroscientist Dr. Tara Swart Bieber shares her personal experience with grief after losing her partner Robin and explores scientific evidence suggesting consciousness may exist independently from the body. She discusses developing communication with the deceased through signs and somatic awareness, explaining how humans possess sensory capabilities beyond the traditional five senses and why trauma often requires body-based therapies rather than talk therapy alone.
The conversation examines clinical cases that challenge conventional understanding of consciousness, including terminal lucidity in severely impaired patients and near-death experiences reported by medical professionals. Dr. Swart Bieber discusses how grief can act as a transformative state that expands awareness, and explores the relationship between creativity, brain connectivity, and the ability to perceive signs. The episode addresses philosophical questions about whether the brain generates consciousness or simply receives it, and considers how future scientific discoveries might fundamentally alter our understanding of the mind's relationship to the body.

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Tara Swart Bieber explores her grief journey following her partner Robin's death, discussing how she developed communication with the deceased through signs and somatic awareness beyond traditional talk therapy.
Tara describes seeing robins repeatedly after Robin's death—a rare occurrence that stood out as a possible sign. Though initially skeptical, she began requesting specific signs and noticed patterns emerging. She compares developing this sensitivity to learning a new language, requiring years of practice from both the living and the dead. Early on, receiving a requested sign might take weeks, but over time responses became faster—sometimes within hours. She gives examples like requesting a phoenix on Robin's death anniversary and encountering a Phoenix Garden restaurant and flying through Phoenix, Arizona that same day. These experiences demonstrate how attention to detail and intention strengthen this communication over time.
Tara explains that humans possess up to 34 senses beyond the traditional five, many operating below conscious awareness. She describes how in the days between Robin's death and cremation, she would wake shivering despite the warm house—mirroring the cold storage of his body. These expanded senses, she notes, are available not just for connection with the deceased but can enhance perception, intuition, and emotional intelligence in all relationships.
Tara emphasizes that trauma stores itself in the body, often appearing as physical pain coinciding with significant dates. Before Robin's death anniversary, she experienced inexplicable aches beginning on the exact date she had taken him home from the hospital. She explains that traditional talk therapy has limits because trauma can shut down brain regions responsible for speech. When trauma can't be articulated verbally, somatic therapies like massage, dance, or tai chi become necessary to process and release it.
The discussion draws on clinical cases and scientific investigations to explore whether consciousness can exist separate from the body, particularly when the brain is severely damaged or inactive.
Tara describes "terminal lucidity," where patients with severely impaired cognitive abilities unexpectedly regain complete awareness within one to 24 hours before dying. A striking 2009 case involved an 82-year-old Alzheimer's patient who had been non-verbal for years but suddenly sat up the day before death, recognized her daughter by name, spoke clearly, and reminisced. Tara emphasizes that neurochemical surges can't fully explain such recoveries in physically compromised brains, suggesting that consciousness may operate independently from brain structure.
Three prominent cases from medical professionals support this hypothesis: Dr. Mary Neal, an orthopedic surgeon, was submerged for 15 to 20 minutes and experienced traveling to another realm; Dr. Eben Alexander, a neurosurgeon, suffered bacterial meningitis and reported experiencing heaven and cosmic consciousness; and Dr. Bruce Grayson has spent five decades documenting over 5,000 near-death experiences, offering substantial evidence resisting explanation as hallucinations.
Dr. Grayson recounts a case where an ICU patient had a near-death experience encountering his primary nurse, who told him to relay a message to her parents about "the red MG." Upon awakening, he shared this with staff who became upset—the nurse had died in a car crash driving her red MG. The patient couldn't have known this information, suggesting near-death experiences convey knowledge beyond personal memory or sensory input.
Tara and referenced scientists argue these phenomena challenge the materialist paradigm that consciousness emerges solely from healthy brain tissue. Professor Donald Hoffman posits that consciousness, not space-time, could be fundamental to the universe, inviting a model where mind exists independently of the brain and material world.
Dr. Swart Bieber examines grief as both a physiological and psychological state that can expand awareness, positioning it as a potential catalyst for transformation.
Dr. Swart Bieber describes experiencing "thought insertion" during grief—a psychiatric symptom associated with schizophrenia. She notes that grief changes neurotransmitter levels and alters brain signaling, potentially mimicking psychosis symptoms. For those unfamiliar with mental health, she emphasizes that these brain disruptions are physiological responses, not signs of permanent mental illness. Grief creates a temporary altered state that, when understood, can be part of healing.
Swart Bieber interprets grief's disruption as a doorway to exploring consciousness and reality. Her own grieving prompted research into near-death experiences and terminal lucidity. She suggests redirecting grief into creativity and discovery, viewing creativity as allowing individuals to achieve expanded awareness. By reframing grief as generative rather than destructive, suffering transforms into creative, conscious engagement with life.
Swart Bieber draws from Carl Jung's collective unconscious theory, which posits that humans inherit brain structures encoding archetypal experiences—birth, life, and death. She references ancient wisdom recognizing material and spiritual connection to nature, noting that our atoms trace back to the Big Bang. Examples like salmon nourishing forest floors illustrate how nothing is truly lost but transforms. She argues that breaking connection to these cycles contributes to widespread disconnection and that reconnecting may restore wellbeing.
Tara Swart Bieber explains that creativity depends on hyperconnectivity—when multiple brain lobes fire simultaneously. The reticular activating system (RAS) acts as a sensory filter, but in creative people it operates with lower inhibition, letting in unconventional information. These same neural patterns, however, are linked to susceptibility to depression and schizophrenia, suggesting that neurological mechanisms for creativity and certain mental illnesses are intertwined.
Swart Bieber notes that high intelligence, strong working memory, and cognitive flexibility are protective, enabling individuals to direct altered neural connectivity toward insight rather than crisis. Without these cognitive resources, hyperconnectivity can lead to fixation and mental decline. She applies this to grief, suggesting creativity can help achieve expanded awareness by deliberately loosening mental filters and perceiving previously ignored details.
While the RAS naturally shapes attention, Swart Bieber asserts that noticing signs isn't simply subjective fabrication. When individuals request specific, distinctive signs and those signs appear, it suggests the process involves more than confirmation bias. By intentionally selecting what to look for, people can differentiate true coincidences from imagined patterns and facilitate authentic insight.
Tara Swart Bieber and Steven Bartlett explore consciousness and its relationship to the body from scientific, philosophical, and spiritual perspectives.
Tara Swart Bieber contends that the energy constituting consciousness doesn't disappear at death but persists. She discusses terminal lucidity and near-death experiences as suggesting the mind and body can operate independently. She explains that reincarnation beliefs posit consciousness entering new bodies, potentially continuing existence elsewhere.
Swart Bieber references Dr. David Eagleman's proposal that the brain might not generate consciousness but function like a radio receiving signals. While unprovable, she notes it can't be dismissed and could explain consciousness functioning after severe brain injury. She maintains that not being able to conclusively prove an idea shouldn't remove it from scientific consideration.
Swart Bieber points to history showing that currently unexplainable concepts can become reality as knowledge advances. As a cognitive scientist, she champions curiosity and challenges the status quo, invoking Professor Donald Hoffman's claim that consciousness, not space-time, underpins the universe. She advocates openly discussing consciousness despite taboos, believing exploration benefits humanity. She calls for scientists to embrace curiosity and accept that future discoveries may fundamentally alter our understanding of consciousness and its relation to the body.
1-Page Summary
Tara Swart Bieber discusses her experiences following the death of her partner Robin, describing how her grief journey became an exploration of communication with the deceased, receiving signs, and developing somatic awareness beyond traditional talk therapy.
Tara recounts seeing robins repeatedly at her homes in Hampshire and London in the weeks following Robin’s passing, noting that before and since, such sightings were rare, making them stand out as possible signs. Although initially skeptical, she observed patterns and began to consider that communication with the deceased could indeed occur.
She describes this process as demanding both belief and persistent effort, much like going to the gym or learning a new language. It takes years to cultivate, requiring both the living and the dead to learn to "speak" across dimensions. Requesting and recognizing signs is an evolving skill: in early stages, receiving a requested sign might take weeks, but over time, signals manifest much faster—sometimes within hours.
Tara gives concrete examples of how she requests and receives signs. On Robin's death anniversary in America, she asked for the unusual sign of a phoenix. That day, she noticed a Phoenix Garden restaurant and ended up flying through Phoenix, Arizona. She sometimes requests highly specific signs, such as seeing a "button" three times by 11 PM the next day, or symbols meaningful only to her—an elastic band in the shape of an "H" after passing a significant hospital. Tara notes that refining criteria—where, how, and when a sign appears—strengthens the communication, making responses more personalized and immediate.
These experiences illustrate how both attention to detail and intention play a role in developing this sensitivity. Over time, asking questions in her mind and receiving clear, immediate responses became possible, deepening her sense of connection to her partner.
Tara expands on the idea that humans possess far more than five senses—up to 34—including many that operate below conscious awareness. These include senses like the body’s detection of blood pH, as well as oxygen and carbon dioxide levels. Although typically subconscious, some can be influenced with breathwork or other physical interventions.
She describes how bodily sensations may serve as communication channels. In the days between Robin’s death and cremation, she would wake up shivering with cold, despite the house being warm—mirroring the cold storage of his body. She recounts how these temperature changes weren’t consciously deliberate, but in retrospect, seemed a profound, symbolic resonance.
Tara points out that these expanded senses are available not just for connection with the deceased, but in all human relationships and self-understand ...
Communication With Deceased Through Signs and Senses
The discussion draws on clinical cases, scientific investigations, and philosophical theories to explore whether consciousness can exist separate from the body, especially in situations where the brain is profoundly damaged or even inactive.
Cases of “terminal lucidity” provide compelling phenomena suggesting that consciousness may persist independent of physical brain integrity. Tara Swart Bieber describes how, at the borderline of life and death—typically within one to 24 hours before dying—patients with severely impaired cognitive abilities, such as those with advanced Alzheimer’s, unexpectedly regain complete awareness and the ability to communicate.
A striking example from 2009 involves an 82-year-old Alzheimer’s patient who had been non-verbal and unresponsive for years. On the day before her death, she suddenly sat up, recognized her daughter by name, spoke clearly, reminisced about the past, and expressed gratitude to her family. Her speech was coherent, her memory intact, and her personality recognizable, as if she had never been ill. She died peacefully that night.
Swart Bieber emphasizes that neurochemical surges can only partially explain such recoveries, and fundamentally, these events defy explanation based on damage to neurons and synapses. The restoration of cognitive function in brains that are physically compromised points toward the possibility that mind and consciousness operate independently from the material structure of the brain.
Three prominent cases from medical professionals reinforce the hypothesis of consciousness existing beyond physical life:
Dr. Mary Neal, an orthopedic surgeon, recounted in the Netflix documentary "Surviving Death," was submerged underwater for 15 to 20 minutes and should not have survived. During this period, she experienced what she described as traveling to another realm, encountering a being of light, and being told her time was not over before she was resuscitated. She could see her physical body and friends attempting to save her.
Dr. Eben Alexander, a neurosurgeon and former atheist, suffered a coma from bacterial meningitis and was declared clinically dead. Following resuscitation, he reported experiencing heaven, encountering a cosmic consciousness, and developing a belief in a caring, benign God.
Dr. Bruce Grayson, a psychiatrist at the University of Virginia, has spent five decades rigorously documenting over 5,000 near-death experiences, with total global recorded cases surpassing 10,000. Grayson’s comprehensive research offers a substantial body of cases that resist explanation as hallucinations or delusions.
Dr. Grayson recounts the “Red MG” case. A patient in ICU, frequently in cardiac arrest, had a strong bond with a young primary nurse. During an episode with a substitute nurse present, he had a near-death experience where he encountered his primary nurse, ...
Scientific Evidence For Consciousness Independent From the Body
Dr. Tara Swart Bieber examines grief not merely as emotional pain but as a physiological and psychological state that can expand awareness. Her reflections position grief as a potential catalyst for personal transformation and deeper connection with universal cycles.
Dr. Swart Bieber describes a period when she experienced "thought insertion"—having thoughts she recognized as not her own—which is, in psychiatry, a symptom associated with schizophrenia. As both a psychiatrist and a grieving person, she is able to recognize and contextualize this symptom. She notes that grief changes neurotransmitter levels in the brain and alters electrical and chemical signaling, which can mimic symptoms associated with psychosis. This means that during intense grief, a person may undergo cognitive and perceptual shifts that, if not understood, could be frightening and mistaken for mental illness or a loss of sanity.
For those who are not mental health experts, she emphasizes the importance of understanding that the brain disruptions during grief are a physiological response, not a sign of permanent mental illness. Grief, she argues, creates a temporary altered state of consciousness, which can actually help individuals recognize their experiences as part of a healing process.
Swart Bieber interprets the disruption of grief as a doorway to exploring the nature of consciousness and reality itself. During her own grieving, she found herself questioning how her mind and the world operate, including speculation about what happens after death. She delved into research on near-death experiences, terminal lucidity, and "dark retreats," highlighting her intellectual and spiritual journey prompted by loss.
She suggests redirecting grief into creativity and discovery, viewing creativity as a conduit not only for returning to one’s previous mental state but for achieving an even more expanded state of awareness. According to her, reframing grief as generative instead of destructive allows suffering to be transformed into creative, conscious engagement with life. By loosening the mental filters and channeling grief into curiosity and art, individuals can move toward healing and new perception.
Swart Bieber draws from Carl Jung’s theory of the collective unconscious, which posi ...
Grief as a Transformative State Leading To Expanded Awareness
Tara Swart Bieber explains that creativity in the brain depends on hyperconnectivity—when more lobes are firing simultaneously and connecting through the association cortex, the brain opens to new ideas. This interconnected neural activity underpins creativity, allowing distant and distinct thoughts to link. The reticular activating system (RAS) acts as a sensory filter, but in creative people, it tends to operate with lower inhibition—a phenomenon called attenuated latent inhibition—letting in unconventional or unexpected information that most would filter out. This means creative individuals display both hyperconnection and heightened noticing of novelty or significance, leading to more insights.
These same neural patterns, however, are linked to susceptibility to mental health challenges such as depression and schizophrenia. The reduced inhibition and enhanced connectivity that support creativity can also leave individuals psychologically vulnerable, as the boundaries between normal and abnormal thoughts blur. This suggests that the neurological mechanisms for creativity and certain forms of mental illness are closely intertwined.
Swart Bieber notes that having high intelligence, strong working memory, and cognitive flexibility—an ability to think creatively and adaptively—is protective. These attributes enable individuals to direct their altered neural connectivity toward insight and growth, rather than experiencing psychological crises. Expanded awareness and understanding become possible, because altered mental states no longer overwhelm the mind but instead enhance its filtering and connecting abilities.
Conversely, if an individual has low IQ, working memory deficits, and a tendency toward perseveration—the habitual mental repetition of the same thought—persistent hyperconnectivity without protective cognitive resources can lead to fixation, crises, and mental decline. Without flexibility or intellectual reserve, the brain becomes stuck rather than finding solutions.
Swart Bieber applies this model to grief and altered consciousness, asking whether these states represent a breakdown or can instead become a breakthrough. She reflects that creativity may serve as a conduit for recovering from grief, helping her not just return to normalcy but also attain an expanded awareness. Through creativity, she can deliberately loosen mental filters, notice things previously ignored, and think in new ways about her mind, the world, and foundational questions such as what happens after loss.
As people navigate busy lives, they often mi ...
Brain Connectivity and Creativity in Sign Perception
Tara Swart Bieber and Steven Bartlett explore the questions of consciousness and its relationship to the body, drawing from scientific, philosophical, and spiritual perspectives.
Tara Swart Bieber contends that the energy which constitutes consciousness and the "soul" does not disappear at death but persists in some form. She discusses the phenomenon of terminal lucidity and near-death experiences, suggesting that at the border of life and death, people might perceive a reality in which the mind and body can operate independently—something that could be true all along but remains unacknowledged when alive and well.
Swart Bieber explains that belief in reincarnation posits that consciousness or energy enters a new body as a vessel and continues a new life. She suggests that even if consciousness leaves one body, it does not simply vanish but potentially takes on existence elsewhere.
Steven Bartlett asks what Swart Bieber believes, based on stories of near-death experiences and cases like terminal lucidity, which imply the persistence of consciousness even as the body fails. She sees these episodes as possible glimpses into the reality that consciousness can exist apart from the physical form.
Swart Bieber references Dr. David Eagleman of Stanford University, who proposes the idea that the brain might not generate consciousness but function instead like a radio that receives signals from beyond itself. While this theory remains unprovable, Swart Bieber notes that it cannot be categorically dismissed either.
Experiences where consciousness appears to function even after severe brain injury provide further reason to question the mainstream premise that consciousness relies solely on intact brain structure. Swart Bieber suggests that such phenomena could be explained if the brain works more as a receiver, picking up consciousness from a broader, non-material realm.
Swart Bieber maintains that, as with Eagleman's hypothesis, not being able to conclusively prove or disprove an idea should not remove it from scientific consideration. Scientific inquiry, she asserts, should remain open to possibilities that challenge prevailing assumptions.
Mind, Consciousness, and Soul Separate From Body
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