Short Stuff: Pies
In this episode of Stuff You Should Know, the hosts delve into the rich history of pies, tracing their origins from ancient Egypt through their evolution in Greece and medieval Europe. The discussion covers how early pies were made with grains and honey, the introduction of meat fillings, and some peculiar historical serving methods—including the use of bones as handles and the practice of hiding live entertainment inside elaborate pie presentations.
The hosts also explore how pies became woven into American cultural identity, particularly through apple and pumpkin varieties. They examine the transformation of pumpkin pie from its earliest form as a whole stuffed pumpkin to its modern incarnation, and discuss other notable varieties like the Key lime pie, whose origins sparked debate between Florida Keys fishermen and the Borden Condensed Milk Company.
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1-Page Summary
The History and Origins of Pies
The history of pies stretches back approximately 8,000 years to ancient Egypt, where early versions were made with grains and honey, baked over hot coals. The Greeks later advanced pie-making by introducing savory meat fillings and developing what would become modern pastry dough, marking a significant evolution in pie-making techniques.
The Development and Spread of Pies in Europe
During the Middle Ages and Renaissance, European bakers experimented extensively with both sweet and savory fillings, creating regional variations like empanadas and spanakopita. The English made particularly notable contributions, including the practice of using bones as handles in meat pies. In elaborate cases, English pies would sometimes contain live surprises, such as birds or musicians, for entertainment at royal dinners.
The Cultural Significance of Pies in American Identity
Pies have become deeply embedded in American culture, particularly pumpkin and apple varieties. Chuck notes that pumpkin pie arrived with the Mayflower colonists and became firmly associated with Thanksgiving traditions. The phrase "as American as apple pie" emerged in the early 20th century, and during World War II, "mom and apple pie" became a patriotic symbol of home and comfort.
Specific Types of Pies and Their Characteristics
Chuck explains that early pumpkin pies were actually whole pumpkins filled with honey, milk, and spices, with the modern version first appearing in Amelia Simmons's 1796 cookbook "American Cookery." Clark and Bryant reveal that apple pie, despite its American associations, was actually perfected by the Dutch before becoming an American staple. The Key lime pie, originating in the Florida Keys in the late 19th century, has become renowned for its distinctive tart flavor and creamy texture, though its exact origins remain debated between local fishermen's recipes and possible connections to the Borden Condensed Milk Company.
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Actionables
- Explore the evolution of pies by baking a historical pie each month, starting with the simplest ancient recipes and progressing to more complex modern variations. This hands-on approach allows you to experience the development of pie-making firsthand. Begin with an ancient Egyptian-style pie using grains and honey, then move on to a Greek meat pie with pastry dough, and so on, until you reach the American classics like pumpkin and apple pies.
- Create a "Pie Around the World" potluck dinner with friends or family, where each person brings a pie representing a different culture or historical period. This not only makes for a fun and educational gathering but also allows you to taste a variety of pies and learn about their origins. You could have empanadas to represent the European Middle Ages, a Dutch apple pie, and a Key lime pie from the Florida Keys.
- Start a blog or social media page documenting your pie-making journey, focusing on the historical context and personal experience rather than just recipes. Share photos, taste reviews, and insights about the cultural significance of each pie you make. This can be a platform for connecting with others who have an interest in culinary history and for exchanging knowledge about traditional pie recipes from around the world.
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The History and Origins of Pies
The humble pie, a beloved culinary creation, has a storied history which traces back to the ancient civilizations of Egypt and Greece.
Pies Date Back to Ancient Egypt and Greece
Pies can be traced back to ancient times, around 8,000 years ago in Egypt, where early versions consisted of a rustic concoction of grains. These pies utilized honey as a natural sweetener and were baked over hot coals, forming a semi-sweet smorgasbord that probably bore little resemblance to the pies we enjoy today.
Greeks and Romans Advanced Pie-making, Creating Modern Pastry Dough
The Greeks were instrumental in pie development, taking inspiration from the Egyptians. They introduced a significant culinary innovation by shifting from the sweet foundations, such as honey fillings, to ...
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The History and Origins of Pies
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Counterarguments
- The assertion that pies originated around 8,000 years ago in Egypt might be challenged by the lack of concrete evidence or detailed records from that time period, making it difficult to pinpoint the exact origin and form of these early pies.
- The transition from sweet to savory fillings in pies is attributed to the Greeks, but other cultures may have also influenced the development of pies independently, suggesting a more complex history of culinary exchange and innovation.
- The claim that the Greeks developed a pastry dough that closely resembles modern pastry dough could be contested by noting that pastry dough has evolved significantly over time, influenced by various cultures and available ingredients, which means that the Greek version was likely quite different from what we use today.
- The idea that Greek innovations were solely responsible for transforming pies into versatile dishes migh ...
Actionables
- Explore the evolution of pies by baking a pie inspired by ancient recipes and then creating a modern twist on it. Start by researching ingredients that were available in ancient Egypt, such as grains and honey, and use them to make a simple, rustic pie. After tasting the traditional version, experiment by adding contemporary flavors or techniques to the recipe, like incorporating modern fruits or using a food processor to blend the pastry dough.
- Host a pie-themed potluck where each guest brings a pie that represents a different era or culture. Encourage friends to get creative by choosing a specific time period or region for their pie, such as a Greek meat pie or a medieval English pie. This activity not only allows you to taste a variety of pies but also sparks conversations about the history and evolution of this dish.
- Create a "Pie of the Month" challenge where ...
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The Development and Spread of Pies in Europe
Pies, a beloved staple in culinary traditions, saw their popularity and innovation soar in Europe during the Middle Ages and the Renaissance.
Pies Gained Popularity In Europe During the Middle Ages and Renaissance
While the Romans did not significantly advance pie-making techniques, they were pivotal in introducing pies to Europe, where they became deeply rooted in the culinary landscape. During the Middle Ages and Renaissance, European bakers began to experiment extensively with a range of fillings for their pies, leading to a rich diversity in pie types.
European Bakers Experimented With Sweet and Savory Fillings Like Fruits, Nuts, and Meats
Pies across Europe took on regional characters and featured various sweet and savory fillings such as fruits, nuts, and meats. This experimentation gave birth to a wide array of pies, including internationally recognized versions like empanadas, spanakopita, and tourtière, each with its own unique ingredients and preparation styles.
English Influence on Pie Evolution Introduced Baking Bones and Legs as Crust Handles
The English played a significant role in the evolution of pie-making. They were especially known for their meat pies, often spelled "P-Y-E," which contained various types of meat.
Elaborate Engl ...
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The Development and Spread of Pies in Europe
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Clarifications
- The Romans spread pie-making by bringing the concept and basic recipes to the regions they conquered. Their pies were simple, often using a thick crust mainly as a container rather than for eating. This introduction laid the foundation for later European bakers to innovate and diversify pie recipes. Thus, the Romans' role was crucial as cultural transmitters rather than technical innovators.
- The Middle Ages, also called the medieval period, lasted roughly from the 5th to the late 15th century. It began after the fall of the Western Roman Empire and ended as Europe transitioned into the Renaissance. The Renaissance, spanning the 14th to 17th centuries, was a cultural revival emphasizing art, science, and exploration. This era marked a shift from medieval traditions to early modern European society.
- Empanadas are pastry turnovers filled with meat, cheese, or vegetables, originating from Spain and popular in Latin America. Spanakopita is a Greek savory pie made with spinach, feta cheese, and phyllo dough. Tourtière is a traditional Canadian meat pie, typically made with minced pork or a mixture of meats and spices. Each reflects the culinary traditions and ingredients of its region.
- The spelling "pye" is an archaic form of the word "pie" used in Middle and Early Modern English. It was commonly used in English cookbooks and literature from the 14th to 17th centuries. The variation reflects historical changes in English spelling before standardization. Over time, "pie" became the dominant spelling in modern English.
- In medieval English pies, game bird legs were left attached to the meat and baked into the crust to serve as natural handles. This allowed diners to hold and eat the pie without utensils, which was practical for feasts and outdoor settings. The bones were sturdy enough to support the pie's weight and added a decorative element. This technique reflects the period's blend of functionality and showmanship in food ...
Counterarguments
- The assertion that Romans did not significantly advance pie-making techniques could be challenged by noting that they did contribute to the spread and development of pie-making, even if their techniques were not revolutionary.
- While pies did become popular in Europe during the Middle Ages and Renaissance, it's worth noting that their development was not uniform across all regions and that some areas may have adopted pies at different times or with varying degrees of enthusiasm.
- The text implies a linear progression of pie innovation, but it's possible that some traditional pie-making techniques and recipes were preserved over time rather than continuously innovated upon.
- The claim that English pies sometimes included baked-in bones for handles could be questioned in terms of how widespread this practice was, as it may have been more of a novelty than a standard technique.
- The mention of live animals being used in pies for entertainment could be criticized for not acknowledging the ethical considerations and the potential distress caused to the animals involved in such practices.
- The focus on English influence on pie evolution might overlook contributions from other European cultures, which also had signific ...
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The Cultural Significance of Pies in American Identity
The culinary delight known as pie holds a special place in the American heart, often embodying traditions and cultural sentiments that span from the early settlers to modern-day festivities.
Pies, Notably Apple and Pumpkin, Link to American Culture and Traditions
Pies have long been intertwined with American culture and traditions, especially when it comes to flavors that have become iconic, like apple and pumpkin.
Pumpkin Pie Was Brought by Mayflower Colonists; Thanksgiving Solidified Its Popularity
Chuck remarks on the historical journey of pumpkin pie, stating that it was introduced to the New World by the English colonists aboard the Mayflower. The flavor of pumpkin pie, combined with spices commonly associated with it but not directly derived from pumpkin, has since become a symbol of the Thanksgiving holiday.
'As American as Apple Pie' Emerged In the Early 20th Century
The saying "as American as apple pie" emerged in the early 20th century, reflecting apple pie's strong associati ...
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The Cultural Significance of Pies in American Identity
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Counterarguments
- While pies, particularly apple and pumpkin, are indeed popular in American culture, it's important to recognize that the United States is a melting pot of various cultures, each with its own culinary traditions. Therefore, pies might not hold the same significance for all Americans.
- The history of pumpkin pie in America is more complex than simply being introduced by the Mayflower colonists; indigenous peoples of North America were using pumpkins and squash for food long before European settlers arrived, and the modern version of pumpkin pie developed over time.
- The phrase "as American as apple pie" overlooks the fact that apples are not native to North America and that apple pie recipes originated in Europe, with the dish only becoming Americanized in the context of the ingredients and cultural significance over time.
- The association of pies with American identity and nostalgia can sometimes oversimplify or romanticize American history, ignoring the diverse and sometimes contentious aspects of the nation's past.
- The use of pies, and particularly the phra ...
Actionables
- Explore the history of pies in your family by asking relatives about their favorite pie recipes and the stories behind them. This can create a personal connection to the cultural significance of pies and provide an opportunity to pass down traditions. For example, you might discover that your great-grandmother had a unique recipe for apple pie that was always served at family reunions, which you can then recreate and share with the next generation.
- Start a pie-themed book club where members read and discuss books that feature American pies, their history, or their cultural significance. This can deepen your understanding of pie's role in American culture while connecting with others who share this interest. You could kick off with a book like "American Pie: Slices of Life (and Pie) from America's Back Roads" by Pascale Le Draoulec to explore how pie weaves into the fabric of American life.
- Create a "Pie Across America" challe ...
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Specific Types of Pies and Their Characteristics
A deep dive into the history and distinctive qualities of various pies that have not only delighted taste buds but are also entrenched in cultural identity.
Pumpkin Pie, an Iconic American Treat Since the Colonial Era
Pumpkin Pie Was Originally Baked In Pumpkins Before Modern Crusts Became Popular In Europe and the United States
Clark mentions that, although pumpkin pie seems very American, the idea of baking pumpkin in a pie shell might have been puzzling with regard to its French influence. Josh explains that the earliest versions of pumpkin pie were not like the pies we know today; instead, they involved entire pumpkins filled with honey, milk, and spices and then baked. Chuck adds historical context by stating that the pumpkin pie as we know it today first appeared in "American Cookery by an American Orphan" by Amelia Simmons in 1796. This featured a pumpkin pudding that is quite similar to the modern pumpkin pie.
Dutch Perfected Apple Pie Before It Became American Dessert
Apple Pie's Link to American Identity Began In the Early 20th Century, Though It Has European Roots
Clark and Bryant touch on the apple pie, often deemed a symbol of American identity, revealing its European roots. Apples themselves are native to Asia, and it was the Dutch who mastered the art of the apple pie long before it became an American household staple.
Key Lime Pie: Florida Keys Specialty Since 19th Century
Key lime pie stands as the pride of Florida with a vibrant taste and an interesting history.
Key Lime Pie's Tart Flavor and Creamy Texture Make It a Popular Dessert Across the United States
The t ...
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Specific Types of Pies and Their Characteristics
Additional Materials
Actionables
- Explore the evolution of pie by making a historical pie series, starting with the original pumpkin pie recipe and progressing to modern variations. Begin by sourcing a simple recipe for a whole baked pumpkin, then move on to the 1796 pudding-style pumpkin pie, and finally, create your own version using contemporary ingredients and techniques. This hands-on approach will give you a taste of history and the progression of culinary arts.
- Host a pie-themed potluck where each guest brings a pie that represents a different part of the world or a unique point in history. Encourage friends to research and prepare pies like the Dutch apple pie or the debated Key lime pie, sharing stories about their origins and preparation methods. This gathering will not only be a celebration of diverse culinary traditions but also a fun way to learn about the global influences on what many consider quintessentially American desserts.
- Create a "Pie Passport" for your kitchen where ...
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