Podcasts > Rotten Mango > #390: Spoiled Teen Angry, Drives 105mph, Kills Friend - Because Mom Won’t Give Him Amex Gold Card

#390: Spoiled Teen Angry, Drives 105mph, Kills Friend - Because Mom Won’t Give Him Amex Gold Card

By Stephanie Soo & Ramble

In this episode of the Rotten Mango podcast, the summary delves into the tragic consequences of reckless driving by a teenage boy named Kiernan Tagge. It explores Kiernan's history of dangerous behavior behind the wheel, where he pushed speeds beyond 150 mph and engaged in residential area maneuvers that endangered pedestrians and other motorists.

The summary also examines the extent of parental responsibility and potential legal implications. It discusses how Kiernan's mother, Elizabeth, was aware of his reckless driving but failed to take action. The episode raises questions about whether parents should be held accountable for their adult children's choices and the complexities involved in assigning liability. The summary presents various perspectives, shedding light on a nuanced issue.

#390: Spoiled Teen Angry, Drives 105mph, Kills Friend - Because Mom Won’t Give Him Amex Gold Card

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#390: Spoiled Teen Angry, Drives 105mph, Kills Friend - Because Mom Won’t Give Him Amex Gold Card

1-Page Summary

Reckless driving behavior and its dangers

Kiernan Tagge's driving exhibited extreme recklessness, involving speeds exceeding 150 miles per hour on public roads, as well as reckless maneuvers in residential areas that posed serious threats to pedestrians and other motorists.

Parental responsibility and accountability

Elizabeth, Kiernan's mother, was aware of his dangerous driving through alerts but failed to take appropriate action. Flynn's parents argue any reasonable person would have taken away Kiernan's keys. Elizabeth even asked Kiernan to purchase alcohol using a fake ID, demonstrating lack of proper parental boundaries.

The case sparked debates on whether Elizabeth should face legal responsibility for Kiernan's actions leading to Flynn McCrell's death. Some argue Elizabeth's inaction constituted criminal negligence, drawing parallels to cases where parents were charged for their children's harmful actions. Others contend parents can't be liable for adult children's choices.

Legal experts highlight complexities, noting Elizabeth may have faced retaliation if forcibly taking away driving privileges. Community opinions reflect the nuances involved in assigning parental accountability.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While Kiernan's driving was reckless, it's possible that the speeds reported may be exaggerated or inaccurately measured.
  • Elizabeth's awareness of Kiernan's driving habits does not automatically imply she had the means or authority to control his actions, especially if Kiernan was legally an adult.
  • The belief that any reasonable person would have taken away Kiernan's keys assumes that all parents have the same level of control or influence over their adult children.
  • Asking Kiernan to purchase alcohol with a fake ID is certainly questionable parenting, but it may not be directly related to his driving behavior or the accident.
  • The debate on legal responsibility may overlook the autonomy of adult children and the limits of parental control.
  • Arguing that Elizabeth's inaction constituted criminal negligence assumes that she had a legal duty to prevent Kiernan's behavior, which may not be clear-cut in the eyes of the law.
  • The complexities noted by legal experts suggest that there may be valid reasons why Elizabeth did not or could not take away Kiernan's driving privileges.
  • Community opinions may vary widely, and some may believe that parental accountability should have limits, especially when dealing with adult children.
  • The argument that parents can't be liable for adult children's choices recognizes the legal and ethical principle of individual responsibility.

Actionables

  • You can create a family driving agreement that outlines expectations and consequences for unsafe driving behaviors to promote responsibility among driving-age family members. Draft a contract that includes speed limits, areas where driving is permitted, and rules against driving under the influence. Have all driving-age members sign it and agree to terms like revoking driving privileges if the rules are broken. This formalizes the understanding and makes expectations clear, potentially preventing reckless driving.
  • Develop a personal code of ethics regarding enabling illegal behavior to ensure you're not inadvertently supporting unlawful actions. Reflect on your values and write down your stance on issues like providing alcohol to minors or supporting the use of fake IDs. This self-guided exercise helps you establish boundaries and stick to them, even in challenging situations with loved ones.
  • Engage in community discussions or online forums about parental accountability to broaden your perspective on the topic. Look for local community meetings or find online platforms where this topic is being discussed. Participate by sharing your thoughts and listening to others, which can help you form a well-rounded view on the extent of parental responsibility for adult children's actions.

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#390: Spoiled Teen Angry, Drives 105mph, Kills Friend - Because Mom Won’t Give Him Amex Gold Card

Reckless driving behavior and its dangers

Kiernan Tagge's story is a grim reminder of the dangers that come from extreme reckless driving, posing threats not only to the driver but also to the community at large.

Kiernan Tagge's Dangerous Behavior on the Road

Kiernan's driving patterns involve a series of extremely dangerous and potentially fatal maneuvers, which include driving at incredible speeds that grossly exceed safe limits and engaging in reckless actions on public roads.

Kiernan's driving reached speeds far beyond safe limits, with documented instances of him pushing his vehicle to 153 miles per hour for an extended distance of 20 miles. To put this into perspective, going 153 miles per hour for 20 minutes translates to approximately 8 minutes of continuous driving at that extreme speed.

His vehicular recklessness was not confined to highways. In residential areas, Kiernan exhibited a disregard for public safety; he was recorded peeling out and speeding through neighborhoods. This behavior put pedestrians and fellow motorists in direct danger. One such incident involved him filming himself driving at 140 miles per hour—four times the posted speed limit—and on another occasion, waiting for an elderly woman to pass by before sla ...

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Reckless driving behavior and its dangers

Additional Materials

Actionables

  • You can use driving simulators or video games to experience the consequences of high-speed driving in a controlled environment. By setting up scenarios that mimic the dangerous driving behaviors mentioned, you can safely feel the potential outcomes without risking lives. For example, choose a racing game that allows you to drive at high speeds in residential areas and observe the virtual consequences of such actions.
  • Volunteer for a road safety campaign to help spread awareness about the dangers of reckless driving. By sharing stories and statistics similar to those discussed, you can help educate others on the importance of safe driving practices. Create flyers or social media posts that highlight the risks of speeding and reckless maneuvers, and distribute them at local community centers or on ...

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#390: Spoiled Teen Angry, Drives 105mph, Kills Friend - Because Mom Won’t Give Him Amex Gold Card

Parental responsibility and accountability

Elizabeth, Kiernan's mother, faced criticism and pointed questions about her responses to her son's dangerous behaviors, leading to a wider discussion on the need for parental responsibility and accountability.

Kiernan's mother, Elizabeth, was aware of her son's dangerous driving behaviors but failed to take appropriate action to curb or stop them.

  • Flynn's parents expressed the view that a reasonable person would have taken away Kiernan's keys to prevent his reckless driving. This commentary implies that Elizabeth did not react proactively or appropriately to her son's dangerous habits. Elizabeth knew of Kiernan's speeding through the Life360 app, which alerted her when Kiernan drove at 123 miles per hour. Despite receiving 94 alerts in October for Kiernan's speeding and sending angry texts to him to slow down, Elizabeth continued to allow him access to high-performance vehicles.
  • Flynn's parents suggested that even if Elizabeth felt she couldn't take the keys away, she could have limited Kiernan's access to the faster car and instead given him keys to a slower vehicle, such as a Subaru.
  • A legal expert highlighted that Elizabeth had months of knowledge of her son's reckless driving, yet failed to take away his keys and even provided him with a car capable of higher speeds.
  • Comments from the community further emphasized the belief that Elizabeth should not have allowed her son to drive and that she might bear some responsibility for his actions.

Elizabeth even asked Kiernan to purchase alcohol for her using a fake ID, demonstrating a lack of proper parental boundaries and responsibility.

  • Text exchanges between Elizabeth and Kiernan showed her asking him to pick up a bottle of wine for her and, a week later, sending him a screenshot of an article about the consequences of using a fake ...

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Parental responsibility and accountability

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • Elizabeth may have been unaware of the most effective ways to address her son's behavior, indicating a need for better resources and support for parents in similar situations.
  • Taking away Kiernan's keys might not have been a feasible or effective long-term solution, as he could have found other ways to engage in reckless behavior.
  • Elizabeth's decision to allow Kiernan access to a vehicle could have been influenced by other factors, such as the need for him to have transportation for education or employment.
  • The legal system and societal structures may share responsibility in preventing such behaviors by offering more robust interventions for at-risk youth.
  • The text exchanges about purchasing alcohol could have been taken out of context, and Elizabeth's intentions might not h ...

Actionables

  • You can create a family driving agreement to set clear expectations and consequences for driving behavior. Draft a contract that outlines acceptable driving practices, the repercussions for violations, and a commitment to not enabling illegal activities, such as purchasing alcohol. This agreement should be signed by all family members who drive, ensuring that everyone is aware of the rules and the importance of safe driving.
  • Establish a routine check-in with family members about their well-being and behavior. Use these check-ins to discuss any concerns regarding behavior, including driving habits, and to reinforce the importance of personal responsibility. This can be a weekly sit-down where each person can express any issues they're facing, allowing for open communication and the opportunity to address problems before they escalate.
  • Develop a personal code of conduct that includes how ...

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#390: Spoiled Teen Angry, Drives 105mph, Kills Friend - Because Mom Won’t Give Him Amex Gold Card

Legal implications and debates around parental liability

The tragic death of Flynn McCrell has sparked intense legal and public debates about whether Kiernan's mother, Elizabeth, should bear legal responsibility for the actions of her adult son.

The case has sparked debates around whether Kiernan's mother should be held legally responsible for the death of Kiernan's friend, Flynn McCrell.

Flynn’s parents and news articles have drawn comparisons to a case in Michigan where a school shooter’s parents were charged for their inaction. They argue that Elizabeth exhibited negligence by not restricting Kiernan’s access to the car, which they view as a weapon. They point out that Elizabeth left the car keys in a drawer, readily available for Kiernan when she was away, despite knowing his propensity for reckless driving.

This notion of parental liability is compared to a New York case where parents were criminally charged after their son's car crash led to a fatality. There's an ongoing debate on Elizabeth’s liability, as some argue that a parent can face charges for criminal negligence resembling situations where they did not take reasonable measures to prevent their children from causing harm.

Some argue that Elizabeth's knowledge of Kiernan's reckless driving and failure to intervene constitutes criminal negligence, similar to cases where parents were charged for their child's actions.

Part of the argument hinges on the belief that Elizabeth, aware of her son’s dangerous behavior, should have intervened. Flynn’s parents view the incident as preventable, suggesting that any reasonable person would have taken the keys from Kiernan to avoid the crash. They see Elizabeth's failure to act as neglectful.

Others contend that parents cannot be held accountable for the actions of their adult children, and that the responsibility lies solely with the individual driver.

On the other end of the debate, some people question whether Elizabeth had any control over Kiernan’s actions, noting that taking away his car keys could have resulted in violence targeted at her. There’s also an opinion that if Kiernan was truly out of control, the correct course of action would have been to involve the police rather than resorting to measures that could provoke retaliation.

One comment points out that Elizabeth reported her fear of Kiernan’s abusive behavior to the police, as evidenced by multiple calls regarding violence and s ...

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Legal implications and debates around parental liability

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • The legal system typically recognizes adults as responsible for their own actions, and holding parents accountable for the actions of their adult children could set a concerning precedent.
  • Elizabeth's fear of retaliation may have been a significant factor in her decision-making, suggesting that her failure to act was not necessarily due to negligence but rather self-preservation.
  • Charging parents for the actions of their adult children could potentially infringe on the autonomy of adults to make their own decisions and face the consequences of those decisions.
  • The comparison to other cases where parents were charged may not be entirely appropriate, as each case has unique circumstances that may not be publicly known or considered in the debate.
  • The argument that parents should foresee and prevent all potential harm caused by their adult children may be unrealistic and place an undue burden on parents.
  • The principle of free will and personal responsibility is a cornerstone of the legal system, and it may be argued that Kiernan, as an a ...

Actionables

  • You can create a personal safety protocol for your household to prevent unauthorized access to potentially dangerous items. Start by identifying items like car keys, medications, or firearms that should be secured. Then, invest in appropriate storage solutions such as a lockbox or safe. Regularly review who has access and under what circumstances it's granted, ensuring that only responsible and qualified individuals can reach these items.
  • Engage in open dialogues with family members about personal responsibility and legal consequences. Use dinner time or family meetings as an opportunity to discuss the importance of understanding the law and how one's actions can affect others. Share stories from news articles that illustrate the consequences of negligence to reinforce the message.
  • Volunteer ...

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