In this episode of NPR's Book of the Day, Bonnie Garmus discusses her new novel and the themes that drive her writing. Garmus examines poetry's role as a vehicle for truth in an era of declining reliable information, and she explores the tension between individuality and societal pressures toward conformity, particularly in the age of artificial intelligence.
The conversation covers Garmus's specific literary techniques, including her use of a dog as a narrative device to explore human psychology and identity, and her practice of reading dialogue aloud to craft distinct character voices. Garmus also discusses the importance of dedicated editors and readers in recognizing literary substance, emphasizing that identifying quality writing requires years of committed reading practice and diverse perspectives. Throughout the episode, Garmus reflects on how her work resists conformity and champions authentic expression.

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Bonnie Garmus emphasizes that poets are trusted truth-tellers, explaining that people turn to poetry during pivotal life moments—funerals, weddings, graduations—for meaning and understanding during both crisis and celebration. Elissa Nadworny observes that the real center of Garmus's novel is the idea of truth. Garmus agrees, noting that in an age where factual information is declining, poetry offers honest emotions and perspectives. Her novel is about resisting conformity and valuing authentic expression in a world where reliable information is scarce but truth remains essential.
Garmus highlights the current societal trend pushing toward conformity, particularly through artificial intelligence. She observes that AI-generated content lacks inspiration, creativity, and originality, producing monotonous voices that fail to move audiences. Against this backdrop, Garmus points to the Peck and Peck magazine setting and its characters as exemplars of being one of a kind. She emphasizes that uniqueness is valuable and worth defending, stressing the importance of embracing what makes individuals distinctive. Garmus warns that societal pressures to conform, exacerbated by AI's uniform content, hinder true creativity and self-expression.
In her novel "Peck and Peck," Garmus uses a dog as a central narrative device to explore human psychology. She explains that dogs comfort people by listening without judgment, making them an effective literary tool for exploring universal human experiences. Nadworny highlights that the protagonist, Batter, is named after a beloved dog from his mother's past. Garmus elaborates that this naming sets up impossible benchmarks—Batter is continually compared to the dog through his mother's exaggerated tales of its bravery, causing confusion about his identity. The improbable stories create unachievable expectations that foster internal conflict. Garmus uses this device to illustrate how being misunderstood is common among people and how real understanding requires empathy and careful listening.
Garmus considers reading dialogue aloud a critical part of her writing process. She reads her work aloud to capture the rhythm of each voice, ensuring every character's speech has a unique cadence that aligns with their personality and background. She admits to performing all character voices, a practice that became particularly noticeable during COVID-19 lockdown when her husband invested in noise-canceling headphones. Garmus deliberately incorporates humor and exaggeration into her character voices, particularly enjoying over-the-top characters like the protagonist's mother. She avoids writing truly tragic novels because the world already holds enough hardship. Nadworny remarks that she sees and understands the characters from their dialogue alone, as each character's speech pattern functions as an auditory signature that makes them immediately recognizable.
Peck and Peck, a literary magazine in Garmus's novel, distinguishes itself with a panel of 39 editors, each possessing a different specialty. Garmus underscores that more editors are needed in the literary world—people committed to searching for substance and lasting artistic value. She highlights that recognizing literary quality takes years of dedicated reading practice, noting that the protagonist's lifelong commitment to reading poetry cultivates sophisticated literary judgment. This consistent engagement develops the ability to recognize enduring literary quality and discern voices with lasting power. Garmus also emphasizes that Peck and Peck's editors come from all over the world, ensuring diverse perspectives. When editorial reach is expanded, authentic voices often overlooked in mainstream venues are uncovered and given the recognition they deserve.
1-Page Summary
Bonnie Garmus emphasizes that poets are trusted because they almost always tell the truth and have no reason to lie to us, making poetry a genuine source of insight. She explains that people turn to poetry during pivotal life moments—funerals, weddings, graduations, and inaugurations—not only in times of sadness but also in times of happiness. Poetry is sought for meaning, direction, and understanding during both crisis and celebration.
Garmus notes that in an age where factual information is on the decline, poetry offers a space to discover honest emotions and perspectives, helping guide lives beyond just data or facts. Elissa Nadworny observes that the real center of Garmus's novel is not poetry itself but the idea of ...
Poetry and Truth-Seeking as Central Literary Themes
Bonnie Garmus highlights the current societal trend pushing toward conformity, particularly through the influence of artificial intelligence. She contrasts this with the celebration of individuality displayed in unique characters and settings.
Garmus observes that with the current AI generation, all the produced voices sound the same, resulting in monotonous content that lacks inspiration, creativity, and originality. In her view, AI-generated material fails to move audiences or offer anything unique.
Against this backdrop, Garmus points to the Peck and Peck building and its characters as exemplars of being one of a kind. She emphasizes that both the magazine's setting and the people within it are distinctive, serving as a reminder that uniqueness is valuable and worth defending.
Garmus stresses the importance of embracing what makes individuals a ...
Individuality and Non-conformity Versus Societal Pressure to Conform
In her novel "Peck and Peck," Bonnie Garmus uses a dog as a central narrative device, offering insight into human psychology and the complexities of identity. In conversation with NPR’s Alyssa Nadworny, Garmus argues that dogs reveal what makes us human.
Garmus notes that most people feel a strong fondness for dogs, with few exceptions. She explains that dogs comfort people by listening without judgment, providing solace simply through their presence and attentive ears. This uncritical companionship makes dogs an effective literary tool for exploring universal human experiences. According to Garmus, including a dog in a story allows deeper access to the human psyche, as people often project their inner feelings and seek understanding through their relationships with pets.
Nadworny highlights that in "Peck and Peck," the protagonist, Batter, is named after a beloved dog from his mother’s past. Garmus elaborates that this naming sets up impossible benchmarks for the character. Batter is continually compared to the dog through his mother’s exaggerated, highly improbable tales of its bravery. These comparisons weigh heavily on him, causing confusion about his identity and future. The situation is compounded by the fact that everyone consistently mispronounces his name, reinforcing his sense of alienation.
Garmus uses this narrative device to illustrate how misunderstood human experiences can be. She observes that being misunderstood is a common problem among people—it is easy to judge based on appearances rather than deeply listening and empathizing with someone’s background.
The improbabl ...
Dogs as a Narrative Device and Psychological Window
Bonnie Garmus considers reading dialogue aloud a critical part of her writing process. She explains that after writing a page or a couple of paragraphs, she reads it aloud to capture the rhythm of each voice. This habit ensures that every character’s speech has a unique cadence that aligns with their personality and background. Garmus, experienced in writing speeches, notes that the only way to refine dialogue is to read it aloud and correct it until it feels authentic. She admits to performing all the character voices in her head or out loud, regardless of how embarrassing it might seem. During the COVID-19 lockdown, this practice became more noticeable to her husband, who invested in noise-canceling headphones to block out her vocal drafts.
Garmus emphasizes that all her characters have different voices, and she actively ensures that each character sounds distinct. She adjusts and hones dialogue so that vocal qualities reflect the characters' personalities and backgrounds, further enhancing their individuality within the narrative.
Garmus deliberately incorporates humor and exaggeration into her character voices, engaging readers while diverting from unnecessary emotional heaviness. She particularly enjoys writing over-the-top characters, such as the protagonist’s mother and Sultan Peck, who is described as "absolutely as mean as he could be." These larger-than-life personas serve both comic relief and narrative purpose, adding levity to her stories. Garmus asserts that, while she loves spending time with her characters and making the process fun, she avoids writing truly tragic novels because the world already holds enough hardship. Her intention is to entertain and provide enjoyment rather than add to emotional burden.
In a typical example, Garmus reads the mother’s dialogue, showing her over-the-top manner. When asked by her child if dogs can get anxiety, the mother exp ...
Character Voice and Dialogue in Garmus's Writing Craft
Peck and Peck, a literary magazine renowned for its literary excellence, distinguishes itself with a panel of 39 editors. Each editor possesses a different specialty, allowing for comprehensive evaluation across various literary forms and voices. This unusually large editorial team is necessary to manage the millions of queries they receive, sifting through vast slush piles to identify work with true merit and substance. The editors' collective task is to distinguish between ordinary submissions and those with exceptional quality and staying power. Bonnie Garmus underscores that more editors are needed in the literary world—people committed to searching for substance and lasting artistic value.
The protagonist's lifelong commitment to reading poetry—beginning in childhood and continuing long after peers have moved on—cultivates a sophisticated literary judgment. This consistent engagement with poetry leads to deep intelligence and the ability to recognize enduring literary quality. Garmus highlights that discerning voices with lasting power, like those of Walt Whitman or Oscar Wilde, relies on readers developing timeless discernment and intelligence through years of practice. Such skill is crucial, as identifying literary work that will resonate for generations demands dedication and experience.
Readers' and Editors' Roles In Recognizing Literary Substance
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