In this episode of NPR's Book of the Day, author Hernan Diaz discusses his new novel Ply, which is set in a future America where institutions have collapsed but focuses primarily on questions of identity, relationships, and intimacy. Diaz explains how his story centers on three women at different life stages, exploring how they form communities and found families outside traditional structures. Rather than dwelling on societal collapse, the novel examines how human connections and self-concept evolve.
Diaz also shares his perspective on technology's role in shaping human consciousness, arguing that language itself is humanity's greatest technological achievement. He discusses how the speculative future setting allows him to examine alternative social structures and humanity's relationship with nature, particularly how ecosystems rapidly recover when human activity ceases. The conversation touches on themes of knowledge, resilience, and the possibility of new forms of community emerging from the breakdown of existing systems.

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Hernan Diaz's new novel, Plie, is set in a future where institutions have collapsed, but the true focus is on selfhood and intimacy. Through writing, Diaz discovered the novel centers on questions like "Who am I?" and "How can I relate to you?" He says the book is fundamentally about frailty, resilience, trust, betrayal, found family, and love—not institutional collapse or conspiracies, but rather the evolution of personal identity and relationships.
Diaz emphasizes that profound historical shifts begin with changes in human self-concept and definitions of identity, not simply from external forces or political systems. Technology has dramatically changed the notion of selfhood, transforming how people perceive themselves and forging new forms of community—from groups coalescing around music and art to non-traditional families. At the heart of Plie are three women at different life stages whose relationships and interactions drive the plot, exploring how identity, love, and community are continually recreated through their interconnected trajectories and artistic collaborations.
Diaz challenges the perception that technology is defined by modern gadgets, viewing it instead as intrinsic to human existence and fundamentally tied to how humans understand and relay their impressions of the world. He posits that language is humanity's greatest invention—a sophisticated machine that enables all other innovations and transmits knowledge across generations.
Diaz believes humanity possesses an unquenchable thirst for knowledge that persists even when societies collapse and institutions vanish. He regards this relentless pursuit as humanity's most beautiful trait, calling it a "doomed, gorgeously doomed struggle" that gives life meaning. Diaz explains that novels have long conveyed scientific and philosophical ideas in emotionally resonant ways, situating his work within a tradition exemplified by Frankenstein and Moby Dick. By integrating complex themes into the narrative, he aims to deepen the reader's emotional experience while providing intellectual tools to comprehend a rapidly changing world. His exploration of a machine that can alter spacetime and reality serves as a metaphor for humanity's perpetual drive to transcend its limitations through knowledge and invention.
Diaz, referencing rewilding research, emphasizes how quickly ecosystems bounce back when human activity ceases. He highlights Chernobyl and the Korean DMZ as examples where nature rapidly reclaims space once people vacate, with trees growing through buildings and swamps overtaking former urban areas.
Diaz notes that the collapse of modern institutions brings profound losses—education, healthcare, and the rule of law disappear—causing significant pain. However, he points out that the modern state is relatively recent in human history, and its end opens doors to new possibilities. New forms of sociability emerge, including novel family structures that break from the patriarchal nuclear model, and people experience increased autonomy freed from surveillance. Diaz concludes that although the collapse is painful, it's accompanied by hope: alternative social forms and a renewed, harmonious relationship with nature emerge, aligning humanity more closely with ecological processes.
Diaz describes how emerging forms of family move away from traditional structures, with "found families" arising through shared artistic, economic, and creative pursuits rather than biological or legal ties. Protagonists empower musical communities, fostering collaboration and turning artistic spaces into key sites of belonging where the arts flourish.
The collapse of state authority fragments society into city-states. In some regions, private property and profit continue to dominate—the wealthy retreat to the Great Lakes, effectively seceding to form exclusive enclaves that preserve economic hierarchies. Elsewhere, people develop new economies and communal organizations outside the dominance of profit, with the decline of surveillance enabling these experiments in alternative living.
Diaz's novel unfolds in a future reshaped by climate change and societal collapse. The protagonist lives in a city reminiscent of New York but fundamentally altered, with small islands to the north and large islands to the south. The coastline is marked by silence and distant fires, while stars shine against an impossibly clean black sky. The Great Lakes region becomes a haven for the privileged elite, and the United States as a unified nation has ceased to exist, replaced by scattered, seceded city-states.
Diaz's choice to set Plie in a speculative future is a deliberate departure from his previous historical novel, Trust. He wanted to explore technology's role in shaping human consciousness—something he believes is inseparable from modern American identity. The future, he argues, is the "natural habitat of technology," making it necessary for meaningfully examining its impact. This setting allows him to imagine alternative social structures and explore how technological mediation has altered the very concept of being human, while also reinventing his stylistic and thematic approaches as a writer.
1-Page Summary
Hernan Diaz's new novel, Plie, is set in a future where institutions have collapsed. While the premise suggests a story about systems and communal organization, Diaz reveals that the true focus is on the concept of selfhood and intimacy. He explains that he did not originally anticipate this direction; instead, through the process of writing, he discovered the novel revolves around questions such as "Who am I?" and "How can I relate to you?" The core of the book lies in understanding the space—both physical and metaphorical—between individuals, which can both separate and conjoin them. Diaz says the novel is fundamentally about frailty, resilience, trust, betrayal, found family, and ultimately love. The narrative, therefore, is not centered on institutional collapse or conspiracies but rather on the evolution of personal identity and relationships.
Diaz emphasizes that profound historical shifts—ones that end up reshaping societies over centuries—begin with changes in the human self-concept and definitions of identity. These paradigm shifts do not result simply from external forces or political systems, but from evolving ideas of what it means to be human and how individuals relate to each other. Thus, the protagonist’s journey is less about institutional or political collapse and more about selfhood, intimacy, and the relationships that define and change people at their core.
Diaz notes that technology has dramatically changed the very notion of selfhood and individual experience. The mediation of technology transforms how people perceive themselves, which in turn forges new forms of community and social structure that diverge from past historical patterns. Diaz gives examples such as communities that coalesce around music, art, and non-traditional families—emergent forms enabled and shaped by new self-perceptions and the possibilities that technology provides. As technology shifts self-perception, it changes the ways people interact, organize arou ...
Selfhood and Identity
Hernan Diaz challenges the perception that technology is defined by modern, typically male-associated gadgets. Instead, he views technology as intrinsic to human existence, fundamentally tied to how humans apprehend, understand, and relay their impressions of the world. He posits that technology has been part of humanity since its earliest days, noting that the greatest and most impactful invention is language. Language, in Diaz's description, operates as a sophisticated machine, foundational to all subsequent human inventions and essential for transmitting knowledge across generations.
Diaz emphasizes that language is the primary technological achievement that enables humanity to communicate complex ideas, share discoveries, and continually innovate. It is through language that all other inventions become possible, and it stands as the enabler of civilization, progress, and culture.
Diaz believes humanity possesses an unquenchable thirst for knowledge—a drive that persists even when societies break down and institutions vanish. He regards this relentless pursuit as humanity’s most beautiful trait. According to Diaz, the more knowledgeable a person becomes, the more prone they may be to arrogance, yet this journey—this "doomed, gorgeously doomed struggle" for understanding—is noble. Even knowing it may never be fully satisfied, humanity’s pursuit of knowledge gives life meaning and stands at the center of human nature.
Diaz explains that novels have long conveyed scientific and philosophical ideas in ways that are emotionally satisfying and intellectually engaging. He situates his own writing within a tradition exemplified by works such as Frankenstein and Moby Dick, where passages dedicated to natural philosophy or cetology are fundamental to the novels' substance and emotional impact. Similarly, Ursula Le Guin's rich sociological worldbuilding renders her stories meaningful and resonant; without these elements, little would remain of their heart and connection.
Technology and Human Nature
Hernan Diaz, referencing a vast body of research on rewilding, emphasizes how quickly ecosystems can bounce back when human activity ceases. He highlights Chernobyl and the demilitarized zone (DMZ) between North and South Korea as prime examples where, once people vacate the area, nature rapidly reclaims its space. In these abandoned regions, flora and fauna proliferate, illustrating the resilience and restorative capacity of ecosystems when freed from anthropogenic pressure.
Diaz further describes a world where nature has overtaken human constructions: trees grow through buildings, and weeds and swamps reclaim former urban spaces. This process of natural rewilding vividly demonstrates how areas once dominated by civilization swiftly transform back into thriving natural environments when left undisturbed by people.
Diaz notes that the end of the epoch of modernity brings profound losses, including the collapse of vital state institutions such as education, healthcare, and the rule of law. The dissolution of the state leads to the absence of foundational societal structures, causing pain as these essential supports disappear. However, Diaz points out that the modern state is a relatively recent development in human history, and its end opens the door to new possibilities.
With the dissolution of entrenched institutions, new forms of ...
The Relationship Between Nature and Humanity
Hernan Diaz notes that profound changes in society come with both pain and enormous hope, as new structures of community and identity take shape.
Diaz describes how these emerging forms of family move away from the traditional patriarchal nuclear family. Instead, "found families" arise through shared artistic, economic, and creative pursuits, emphasizing voluntary bonds and chosen kinship over conventional biological or legal ties. These new familial arrangements reflect deeper shifts in sociability and belonging.
Within this environment, protagonists take active roles in empowering musical communities. They foster collaboration and champion cultural production, turning artistic spaces into key sites of community and belonging. The flourishing of the arts under these conditions creates opportunities for people to connect through mutual support and shared ideals.
Diaz describes a world where the collapse of state authority fragments society into city-states and disparate regions. In some areas, private property and the pursuit of profit continue to dominate, preserving economic hierarchies and social divisions.
In this upheaval, the wealthy retreat to the Gre ...
Community and Social Organization
Hernán Diaz’s novel Plie unfolds in a future reshaped by the profound effects of climate change and societal collapse. The geography of this transformed world is reminiscent of New York but is fundamentally altered: the protagonist, a young woman, lives in a city that echoes New York's legacy yet is entirely its own. The landscape features a small cluster of islands to the north and large islands due south that appear to hover, mute and blind above the horizon. The once-busy coastline is now marked by silence, broken only by a few distant fires, signaling ongoing destruction and upheaval. Stars shine placidly against an impossibly clean black sky, underlining the world’s strangeness and altered natural order.
In this future, the Great Lakes region takes on new significance. The lakes become a haven for a privileged elite who have migrated northward seeking resilience amid global crisis. Here, generations of affluent people establish a new enclave, forming a fragmented society where the United States as a unified nation has ceased to exist. Instead, the land is divided into scattered, seceded city-states. These enclaves are characterized by the survival of traditional structures based on private property, profit, and instrumental organization, even as the world around them has changed drastically.
Hernán Diaz’s choice to set Plie in a speculative future is a deliberate departure from the historical setting of his previous novel, Trust, which spanned the 19th and 20th centuries. Diaz states that one motivation was to explore technology’s role in shaping human consciousness and society—something he believes cannot be separated from modern American identity, especially since the Industrial Revolution. The future, he argues, is the “natural habitat of technology,” making it a necessary setting to meaningfully examine its impact.
By choosing a future world, Diaz creates space to imagine alternative social structures and the possibility of radical new relationships between ...
The Future World Setting
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