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Katherine Rundell says it's a mistake for adults to discard children's literature

By NPR (podcasts@npr.org)

In this episode of NPR's Book of the Day, author Katherine Rundell makes the case that adults shouldn't dismiss children's literature as lesser or frivolous. Rundell argues that the best children's books tackle life's biggest themes—power, love, fear, and endurance—with a directness that adult fiction often cannot match. She describes these books not as escapism but as "findism," helping readers discover what is most essential about the human experience.

The conversation explores how children's literature evolved from moral instruction to imaginative storytelling, and how modern classics balance darkness with hope and joy. Rundell also discusses her own approach to writing fantasy, creating stories that honor both the adventurous spirit of childhood and the emotional truths that resonate across all ages. The episode offers a fresh perspective on why children's books deserve serious consideration as literature that speaks to readers of any age.

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Katherine Rundell says it's a mistake for adults to discard children's literature

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Katherine Rundell says it's a mistake for adults to discard children's literature

1-Page Summary

The Literary Merit of Children's Literature

Katherine Rundell challenges the common dismissal of children's books as frivolous, arguing that the greatest children's literature offers readers access to what is "most sharp and clear within us." Rather than escapism, Rundell describes these books as "findism"—tools for seeking out life's biggest themes including power, endurance, fear, faith, and love. She points to classics like "Northern Lights," "Earthsea," and "Pippi Longstocking" as examples where readers can "find the very meat of the human heart."

Rundell explains that children's literature provides unique benefits for adults that adult fiction often cannot. These books celebrate joy and hope directly and unashamedly, acknowledging that "the world burns" while insisting it's always worth teaching how to rejoice. Reading children's books as an adult serves as "a kind of defibrillator for the imagination," reigniting wonder and reminding adults of the beauty and possibility in the world.

The prejudice against children's literature is long-standing, with writers like Martin Amis dismissing it as beneath serious authors. However, Rundell argues that children deserve the highest caliber of creative work, especially since a children's book may be the very first book a young person reads in full, shaping future imaginations and hearts.

Evolution From Instruction To Imagination

Early children's literature focused primarily on behavioral control and moral instruction. Medieval texts emphasized rules against behaviors like spitting or nose-picking, while 18th and 19th century books aimed to shape children's morality through discipline rather than entertainment.

The "golden age" of children's literature marked a dramatic shift as pioneering writers like Lewis Carroll, Rudyard Kipling, and J.M. Barrie began exploring the authentic nature of childhood rather than adult anxieties. Rundell notes that the genre became liberated from the schoolroom and pulpit, flourishing as an independent and creative literary form. Masterworks like "Mary Poppins," "The Tiger Who Came to Tea," and "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" celebrated the wild, strange, and idiosyncratic nature of children who hadn't yet learned to conform.

Universal Themes Across Ages

Children's literature addresses immense themes through works like Philip Pullman's "Northern Lights" and Ursula Le Guin's "Earthsea," revealing enduring truths that speak universally. Rundell emphasizes that children's fiction reaches the essence of the human heart by stripping away adult complications.

The greatest children's books acknowledge darkness and difficult truths while balancing these with hope and joy. Stories brimming with delight serve as potent antidotes to despair, remaining honest about adversity while steadfast in the possibility of wonder and enduring love.

Rundell's Approach To Writing Fantasy

Rundell writes for three audiences simultaneously: her twelve-year-old self (craving adventure and peril), her adult self (seeking emotional and psychological truth), and children today. She refuses to write based on outdated assumptions about what kids can handle, actively saluting children's cleverness and depth.

In "The Never Fear," the third book in her Impossible Creatures series, Rundell uses a ship that undergoes breaking and rebuilding as a metaphor for surviving life's struggles. The protagonists face Herculean tasks representing the universal truth that nobody escapes adulthood without being shipwrecked, but each rebuilding leaves a person tougher and more resilient. Her writing balances adventure and entertainment with deeper human truths, creating stories that respect and challenge both young and grown readers.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • "Findism" is a term coined by Katherine Rundell to describe children's literature as a process of discovery rather than mere escape. It emphasizes how these books help readers uncover deep, universal truths about life and human nature. Instead of avoiding reality, "findism" involves actively seeking meaning in themes like love, fear, and endurance. This approach highlights the role of children's books in guiding readers toward self-awareness and understanding.
  • "Northern Lights" is the first book in Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" trilogy, known for its complex themes and rich fantasy world. "Earthsea" is a series by Ursula K. Le Guin, exploring magic, identity, and balance through a young wizard's journey. "Pippi Longstocking," by Astrid Lindgren, features a strong, unconventional girl who challenges norms with humor and independence. These books are celebrated for their depth and appeal to both children and adults.
  • The "golden age" of children's literature, roughly late 19th to early 20th century, marked a shift from didactic to imaginative storytelling. Authors like Lewis Carroll and J.M. Barrie created works that embraced fantasy and childhood wonder rather than moral lessons. This era established children's literature as a respected literary genre with enduring classics. It reflected broader cultural changes valuing childhood as a unique and important life stage.
  • Lewis Carroll created imaginative, nonsensical worlds in works like "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland," pioneering playful language and fantasy. Rudyard Kipling wrote stories such as "The Jungle Book," blending adventure with moral lessons rooted in nature and culture. J.M. Barrie is best known for "Peter Pan," introducing the theme of eternal childhood and the magic of imagination. Together, they shifted children's literature from didacticism to creative exploration of childhood's unique perspective.
  • The ship metaphor symbolizes personal growth through hardship. Breaking represents life's challenges and failures that cause pain or disruption. Rebuilding signifies recovery, learning, and becoming stronger after adversity. This cycle reflects how people develop resilience by overcoming difficulties.
  • A defibrillator is a medical device that restarts a stopped heart by delivering an electric shock. Metaphorically, calling children's books "a kind of defibrillator for the imagination" means they revive or jump-start creativity and wonder in adults. This suggests that reading these books can awaken dormant imaginative abilities. It emphasizes the power of children's literature to refresh and energize the mind.
  • The prejudice against children's literature stems from a long-standing cultural bias that equates complexity and seriousness with adult literature. Some authors dismiss it because they view children's books as simplistic or lacking intellectual depth. This attitude often overlooks the sophisticated themes and emotional truths that children's literature can convey. Additionally, the commercial success and mass appeal of children's books sometimes lead critics to undervalue their artistic merit.
  • Early children's books were mainly designed to teach proper behavior and social rules, often using strict, didactic tones. Over time, authors began to value children's natural creativity and emotions, shifting focus from control to celebrating imagination. This change allowed stories to explore fantasy, adventure, and emotional depth, reflecting children's real experiences and inner lives. The shift marked a move from adult-imposed lessons to literature that respects and nurtures a child's unique perspective.
  • "Mary Poppins," "The Tiger Who Came to Tea," and "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" are iconic children's books that showcase imaginative worlds where ordinary rules are bent or broken. They highlight children's unique perspectives and creativity, emphasizing wonder and curiosity. Each story features characters who face challenges with bravery and kindness, reflecting childhood resilience. These books helped shift children's literature from moral lessons to celebrating childhood's magic and individuality.
  • Writing simultaneously for multiple audiences means the author creates layers in the story that appeal to different age groups and perspectives. The "child self" reflects the author's own childhood feelings and desires, adding authenticity and excitement. The "adult self" brings emotional depth and complex themes that resonate with mature readers. Contemporary children are considered to ensure the story remains relevant and engaging for today's young readers.
  • "The very meat of the human heart" means the deepest, most essential emotions and experiences that define being human. Children's literature often explores fundamental themes like love, fear, courage, and identity in a clear, direct way. These stories strip away adult complexities, revealing universal truths accessible to all ages. This makes them powerful tools for understanding core human feelings and values.
  • Children's literature often presents difficult or dark themes to reflect real-life challenges children may face. However, it balances these by offering hope, resilience, and positive outcomes to encourage emotional growth. This approach helps children understand adversity without becoming overwhelmed or fearful. It fosters optimism and the belief that problems can be overcome.
  • "Masterworks" refers to highly acclaimed and influential books considered exemplary within children's literature. These works often set standards for quality, creativity, and emotional depth. They have enduring popularity and impact across generations. Examples include classics that have shaped the genre and inspired readers and writers alike.

Counterarguments

  • While children's literature can address profound themes, some critics argue that its simplified language and narrative structures may limit the depth and complexity with which these themes are explored compared to adult literature.
  • The assertion that children's books uniquely reignite adult imagination may overlook the capacity of other genres—such as fantasy, poetry, or literary fiction—to inspire wonder and hope in adult readers.
  • The claim that children's literature is universally beneficial for adults may not resonate with all readers, as some adults may find these works less engaging or relevant to their current experiences and intellectual interests.
  • The idea that early reading experiences shape imaginations and hearts is widely accepted, but it could be argued that later reading and life experiences play an equally significant role in shaping a person's worldview and emotional development.
  • While the "golden age" of children's literature is celebrated for its creativity, some scholars note that many works from this period also reflect the social prejudices and colonial attitudes of their time, which can complicate their legacy.
  • The notion that children's literature strips away "adult complications" to reveal universal truths may be challenged by the argument that adult perspectives and complexities are essential for a fuller understanding of those truths.
  • Some may contend that not all children's literature aspires to or achieves the literary merit attributed to the genre's greatest works, and that a significant portion of children's books remain formulaic or didactic.
  • The metaphor of shipwreck and rebuilding as a universal experience may not resonate with all readers, as individual experiences of adversity and resilience can vary widely and may not fit this narrative model.

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Katherine Rundell says it's a mistake for adults to discard children's literature

Value of Children's Literature For Adults and the Misconception Of It Being Frivolous or Escapist

Katherine Rundell passionately argues for the importance and depth of children’s literature, challenging the common misconception that such books are merely frivolous or escapist.

Adults Dismiss Children's Books As Frivolous, Ignoring Literary Merit

Many adults tend to dismiss children’s books, failing to recognize their literary merit. Rundell insists that the greatest children’s books, at their finest, offer a way for readers to access what is "most sharp and clear within us." These books are not just simple stories—they become tools for searching out large ideas, questions, and answers. Rundell encapsulates this spirit as “findism” rather than escapism: children’s literature is about seeking, discovering, and grappling with life’s biggest themes.

Children’s books speak across generations about power, endurance, fear, faith, care, love, doubt, and passion. Rundell points to classics like "Northern Lights," Ursula K. Le Guin’s "Earthsea," "Pippi Longstocking," "Paddington Bear," and "Stuart Little" as examples where these themes emerge profoundly. Adults who read children’s books find themselves accessing their sharpest and clearest selves, stripped of adult compromises and affectations. Rundell asserts that in these stories one can “find the very meat of the human heart.”

Children's Literature Offers Unique Benefits For Adult Well-Being Unattainable in Adult Fiction

Rundell explains that children’s literature offers specific benefits for adults that adult fiction often cannot. These books celebrate joy and hope in a direct, unashamed way. The best children’s fiction does not ignore darkness or hardship; it acknowledges that “the world burns, it is on fire and there will be more to come,” but insists it is always worth teaching children and adults how to rejoice. The joy found in these books “explodes” from their pages—it is “a kind of stick of dynamite.”

Returning to children’s books as an adult serves as a reminder that imagination is vital, not optional. Rundell contends that imagination is indispensable not only to personal happiness, but also to political change, to love—since to imagine is to enter another person’s inner world—and to the building of civilizations themselves. Reading children’s books reignites daily wonder and serves as “a kind of defibrillator for the imagination.” These stories can revive a s ...

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Value of Children's Literature For Adults and the Misconception Of It Being Frivolous or Escapist

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Counterarguments

  • While some children’s books contain profound themes, many are intentionally simple or didactic, and may not offer the same literary complexity or depth as adult literature.
  • The assertion that children’s literature uniquely benefits adult well-being may overlook the fact that adult fiction and other genres can also inspire joy, hope, and imagination in readers.
  • The idea that children’s books allow access to one’s “sharpest and clearest self” is subjective; for some adults, these works may feel nostalgic but not necessarily transformative or insightful.
  • Not all adults dismiss children’s literature; many appreciate and study it for its artistic and cultural value, suggesting the stereotype of widespread adult dismissal may be overstated.
  • The claim that children’s literature is central to nurturing adult imagination and empathy may undervalue the role of other literary forms, arts, ...

Actionables

  • you can set aside a weekly time to read a children’s book aloud to yourself, focusing on how the language, themes, and emotions resonate with your current life challenges or joys, then jot down a few sentences about any new perspectives or feelings that surface.
  • a practical way to reignite your sense of wonder is to keep a “daily marvels” journal, where you write down one thing each day that surprised, delighted, or puzzled you, inspired by the openness and curiosity found in children’s stories.
  • you can challenge yo ...

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Katherine Rundell says it's a mistake for adults to discard children's literature

Evolution of Children's Literature: From Instructional Texts To Celebrating Imagination

Children’s literature has undergone a remarkable transformation over centuries, moving from moral instruction and behavioral control toward embracing the authentic nature and imagination of children.

Children's Literature Was for Behavioral Control and Moral Instruction, Not Entertainment

Medieval and Early Modern Children's Books Emphasized Rules on Behavior

Katherine Rundell highlights that the earliest children's books, dating back to the Middle Ages, were chiefly concerned with controlling children's behavior. These texts focused on instructing children not to engage in frowned-upon habits, such as spitting on the ground or picking their noses. This theme of behavioral regulation persisted for hundreds of years.

18th-19th Century Children's Literature: Morality via Instruction and Discipline

In the 18th and 19th centuries, the purpose of children's literature shifted further towards shaping the morality of children. Rundell explains that these books were not intended to delight or entertain children. Instead, their chief purpose was to provide constant instruction and discipline, aiming to mold children’s moral character and maintain control over them, rather than to captivate their imaginations.

Golden Age Honored Children's Authentic Nature and Experiences

Pioneering Writers Focused On the Child's Heart Over Adult Anxieties

With the onset of the “golden age” of children’s literature, pioneering writers such as Lewis Carroll, Rudyard Kipling, J.M. Barrie, and E. Nesbitt began to look directly at the reality of what a child is. Rather than addressing adult anxieties, these authors explored and honored the true nature of the child’s heart. For instance, Alice from “Alice in Wonderland” is depicted as a difficult girl who doesn’t obey the rules, showcasing children as they are rather than as adults wish them to be.

Children's Fiction Flourishes Independently From Institutions

This golden age marked a turning point: children’s fiction was unhooked from its previous attachments to the schoolroom and the pulpit. Rundell notes that the genre became liberated, flourishing independently from the instituti ...

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Evolution of Children's Literature: From Instructional Texts To Celebrating Imagination

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Counterarguments

  • The distinction between "instructional" and "imaginative" children's literature is not always clear-cut; many works from earlier periods contained elements of fantasy or entertainment alongside moral lessons.
  • Even during the so-called "golden age," some children's books continued to include moral instruction or reinforce social norms, suggesting that the shift was not absolute.
  • The idea that earlier children's literature was solely about control and discipline may overlook the enjoyment and engagement some children found in those texts, even if adults intended them to be didactic.
  • Institutional influences, such as schools and religious organizations, have continued to shape children's literature even after the golden age, through curriculum choices, censorship, and publishing trends.
  • Celebrating the "wild" and "unconstrained" ...

Actionables

  • you can create a weekly storytime where you and a child take turns inventing stories that feature characters making unexpected choices or breaking small, harmless rules, encouraging both of you to celebrate imagination and authentic reactions rather than focusing on perfect behavior; for example, let a character decide to eat dessert before dinner or talk to animals in a park.
  • a practical way to nurture a child’s authentic nature is to set aside a “no-correction hour” where you intentionally avoid correcting manners, grammar, or minor misbehavior, instead observing and joining in their play or conversation to better understand and appreciate their uni ...

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Katherine Rundell says it's a mistake for adults to discard children's literature

How Children's Books Explore Universal Themes and Emotions Across Ages

Children's Literature Explores Themes of Power, Endurance, Fear, Faith, and Love

Katherine Rundell explains that children's literature addresses immense themes such as power, endurance, fear, faith, care, love, doubt, and passion. She offers examples from a wide range of works to illustrate how children's books engage with the spectrum of human experience: Philip Pullman's "Northern Lights," Ursula Le Guin's "Earthsea," Astrid Lindgren’s "Pippi Longstocking," "Paddington Bear," and "Stuart Little." In these stories, deep emotional currents and existential questions appear, presented in ways that are accessible to young readers but resonant for all ages. Rundell emphasizes that children’s fiction reaches the very essence—"the meat of the human heart"—by stripping away the adult complications and poses, revealing enduring truths that speak universally.

Children's Books Convey Hard Truths While Maintaining Hope and Joy

Rundell asserts that the greatest children's books acknowledge the existence of darkness, fear, and difficult truths in the world, but balance these with lessons of hope and love. The genre does ...

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How Children's Books Explore Universal Themes and Emotions Across Ages

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While many children's books address universal themes, a significant portion of children's literature is primarily focused on entertainment, humor, or didactic lessons, and may not engage deeply with complex emotions or existential questions.
  • The assertion that children's fiction strips away adult complications to reveal enduring truths can be challenged by noting that some children's books may oversimplify issues, potentially glossing over important nuances present in adult literature.
  • Not all children's literature resonates equally across all ages; some stories may primarily appeal to children and may not have the same emotional or thematic impact on adult readers.
  • The examples cited (such as "Northern Lights" or "Earthsea") represent a select group of critically acclaimed works, and may not be representative of the broader landscape of children's literature, which includes many formulaic or commercial titles.
  • The idea th ...

Actionables

  • you can keep a daily journal where you retell a challenging moment from your day as if you were writing a story for a child, focusing on the emotions involved and ending with a note of hope or resilience; this helps you process complex feelings honestly while practicing balancing hard truths with optimism.
  • a practical way to deepen your understanding of universal themes is to pick a favorite childhood book and write a short letter to your younger self about how the book’s themes show up in your adult life, making connections between the story’s lessons and your current experien ...

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Katherine Rundell says it's a mistake for adults to discard children's literature

Katherine Rundell's Approach To Writing Fantasy For all Ages, Blending Metaphor, Truth, and Adventure

Katherine Rundell creates fantasy that appeals to both children and adults by blending adventure, emotional nuance, and a deep respect for her readers’ intelligence.

Rundell Writes For Three: Her Childhood Self, Her Adult Self, and Children Today

Rundell explains that she writes for three audiences at once. First, she writes for her twelve-year-old self, which means her books are filled with big adventures, peril, vivid descriptions of food, and humor that would have delighted her as a child. She blends this youthful longing for excitement and delight with her adult desires as a writer: to include reality—not necessarily in plot, but reality in the sense of emotional and psychological truth. She strives to reveal not the sanitized world, but the deeper layers of human nature, including aggression and the darkness that each person carries.

In addition, Rundell is acutely aware of writing for children living in the world today, not children from decades past. She refuses to write stories based on outdated assumptions about what kids can handle or understand. Rundell actively salutes children's cleverness and the depth of what they deserve from literature.

The Never Fear Uses a Shipwreck Metaphor to Explore Adult Resilience

The Never Fear, the third book in Rundell’s Impossible Creatures series, is named after the ship navigated by Christopher and his best friend and co-hero, Anya Argan. The ship undergoes breaking and rebuilding, serving as a metaphor for the process of surviving and recovering from life’s inevitable struggles. Rundell crafts the ship as a symbol of hope at the moment of failure and despair, representing the idea that everyone will experience being shipwrecked by adulthood, but it is always possible to rebuild with renewed skill, resilience, and flair.

Christopher and Anya are thrust into Herculean tasks—challenges that directly reference the trials of Hercules. They experience failure so profound that it threatens to consume them with despair and the potential permanent loss of loved ones. ...

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Katherine Rundell's Approach To Writing Fantasy For all Ages, Blending Metaphor, Truth, and Adventure

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • Some readers may feel that blending adult themes such as darkness and psychological complexity into children's literature could make the stories less accessible or enjoyable for younger readers who seek escapism rather than confrontation with difficult truths.
  • The approach of writing for both children and adults simultaneously may risk diluting the impact for either audience, potentially resulting in stories that are not fully satisfying for either group.
  • While Rundell avoids outdated assumptions about children's understanding, some critics might argue that not all children are ready for or interested in the depth and complexity she provides, and that lighter, more straightforward stories also have value.
  • The use of metaphor, such as the ship ...

Actionables

  • you can write a short story or journal entry from the perspective of your younger self, your current self, and a child you know or imagine, then compare how each voice approaches adventure, challenge, and emotional truth to better understand and respect different viewpoints in your own life
  • (for example, describe a recent setback as your twelve-year-old self might, then as your adult self, and finally as a modern child, noticing how each version processes hope, fear, and resilience).
  • a practical way to challenge yourself is to intentionally include both humor and honest emotional depth when telling a story or recounting an event to friends or family, aiming to balance entertainment with real feelings and complexity
  • (for example, when sharing a story about a difficult day, weave in a funny mishap alongside a candid reflection on what you learned or how you felt, respecting your listeners’ intelligence and emotional r ...

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