In this episode of NPR's Book of the Day, the show examines two novels that explore the intersection of technology and society. The discussion covers the hidden environmental and physical realities of cloud computing, revealing how massive data centers consume enormous amounts of energy and water while tech companies obscure these costs through marketing. The episode also addresses concerns about AI ethics, particularly how large language models use copyrighted creative works without compensation or permission from artists and writers.
Through the lens of horror fiction, author Paul Tremblay and journalist Nathaniel Rich explore broader anxieties about technology's impact on autonomy, corporate power, and security vulnerabilities. The conversation touches on data center security risks, corporate incentives to conceal breaches, and how economic pressures can compel individuals into ethically compromising situations. Ultimately, the episode examines how fiction serves as a vehicle for confronting uncomfortable truths about our relationship with technology and the corporations that control it.

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Nathaniel Rich emphasizes that cloud data is physically housed in massive data centers filled with servers stacked in warehouses, strategically located in areas with cheap water, abundant land, and low utility costs. If all the world's data centers were treated as a single U.S. state, their energy use would rank just behind Texas and is expected to surpass it soon. These facilities require enormous amounts of energy—mainly from coal and gas—and vast quantities of water for cooling, resulting in significant environmental costs and greenhouse gas emissions.
Indira Lakshmanan notes that most people think of the cloud as ethereal, and Rich explains this perception is intentional. Tech companies have promoted "weightless data in a cloud" as a marketing strategy to obscure the real infrastructure, energy use, and environmental damage of digital storage. The data center industry operates under secrecy, only recently coming under scrutiny as the rise of AI has brought the physical realities of cloud computing into sharper public view.
Paul Tremblay, participating in a class action lawsuit against OpenAI, emphasizes that large language models are "built off of stolen books." The core grievance is unauthorized scraping of copyrighted works, which constitutes copyright violation and intellectual property theft. Tremblay insists writers and artists should reject AI tools in creative work, declaring that using AI for art makes you "a scab," invoking union language. He concludes there is no ethical way for LLMs to be used in creative fields until artists are "paid fairly and given the permission to opt in or opt out."
Tremblay criticizes companies like OpenAI, arguing they prioritize profit without ethical consideration. He remarks on the narrative of inevitability propagated by corporations: "They want you to be afraid and feel like you're going to be left behind if you don't use it." This strategy normalizes AI adoption and discourages resistance.
Tremblay asserts meaningful resistance cannot be expected from governments or corporations. Instead, it's up to individuals to draw ethical lines and reject AI for creative work. He calls for continued support of human artistry and shunning of AI-created works, maintaining that ethical AI would require transparent opt-in/opt-out provisions and fair compensation.
Rich discusses that security experts believe heavy investment in cyber security has left physical security lacking. He points to Google promotional videos showing only third-party subcontracted guards protecting facilities containing "no less than the sum of civilizational knowledge," highlighting a key vulnerability.
Rich and Lakshmanan explain that data center operators often participate in covering up breaches. Companies prioritize projecting invulnerability rather than admitting vulnerabilities that could harm business. For example, when a thief broke into an AIG data center, the company only reported $10,000 in hardware loss rather than the theft of medical records for a million individuals.
Rich recounts a 2007 London heist where five men dressed as police officers, equipped with a fake dog, convinced guards to let them steal 80 servers. Most remain uncaught and reportedly thriving financially. These incidents demonstrate that large-scale physical breaches are possible and that victims whose information is stolen are often never informed.
Paul Tremblay's latest horror novel reflects anxieties about technological advancement stripping away personal autonomy. The story follows a gamer tasked with remotely guiding a man in a vegetative state using AI implanted in his brain.
Elissa Nadworny and Tiziana Dearing describe the disturbing premise: a person's actions guided not by his own will but by a gamer using AI. Tremblay suggests the real terror lies in the universal anxiety of being controlled, likening it to fears surrounding mental decline. He raises existential questions: if someone can alter your psyche against your will, what remains of your authentic self?
The novel situates the protagonist in circumstances dictated by technological and corporate forces. Economic desperation or manipulation can drive individuals to participate in ethically troubling actions, while surveillance and algorithmic control trap people in corporate influence.
Modern horror novels increasingly employ AI threats and dystopian scenarios to highlight vulnerabilities in corporate systems. Through narratives intertwined with technology, horror writers prompt readers to reassess their relationships with devices, algorithms, and the corporations wielding them.
Tremblay argues that art's value comes from questioning what readers take for granted, confronting them with situations that challenge assumptions. Sympathetic characters who make questionable choices foster empathy, leading readers to examine their own potential for complicity. Tremblay also incorporates disruptive typographical choices to amplify this effect, making readers experience characters' psychological upheaval.
Rich emphasizes that narrative storytelling grants readers the opportunity to wrestle with subjective ethical questions. Fiction transforms abstract technological anxieties into tangible scenarios, enabling readers to explore their own possible responses to emergent threats in a safe context. Through discomfort, empathy, and creative devices, horror fiction incites critical self-examination about technology's role in modern life.
1-Page Summary
Despite popular perception, the cloud is not a diffuse, weightless digital space. Nathaniel Rich emphasizes that cloud data is physically housed in secure, fortress-like data centers, filled with servers—rectangular black boxes stacked in cabinets resembling commercial baking racks—inside Pentagon-scale warehouses. These facilities are not invisible or ephemeral; they are strategically located in areas with cheap water, abundant land, and low utility costs, such as Pryor, Oklahoma, on the margins between exurbs and rural sprawl.
Rich explains that if all the world's data centers were treated as a single U.S. state, their energy use would rank just behind Texas, and they are expected to surpass Texas soon. The energy demands arise from the chips powering these servers, which consume enormous amounts of energy—mainly generated from coal and gas power plants. Additionally, data centers require vast quantities of water to keep these machines cool and prevent overheating or catastrophic failure. Combined, these factors result in significant environmental costs and a huge greenhouse gas footprint.
Indira Lakshmanan points out that most people have been conditioned to think of the cloud as ethereal, with our data floating somewhere high above, disconnected from any physical infrastructure. Nathaniel Rich notes that this perception is intentional. Tech companies have promoted the ...
Hidden Costs of Cloud Data Centers' Infrastructure and Environment
Paul Tremblay, participating in a class action lawsuit against OpenAI and ChatGPT on behalf of writers, emphasizes that large language models (LLMs) are “built off of stolen books.” He explains the core grievance is the unauthorized scraping of copyrighted works, which constitutes copyright violation and, in his view, represents both intellectual property theft and a “professional horror” for writers. Tremblay shares the perspective of an artist friend that AI-generated art is unethical because “they’ve taken our works, haven’t paid us and we don’t have permission.”
Tremblay insists that writers and artists should reject the use of AI tools in any creative capacity, declaring, “if you're using [AI] to write or do art or music, you're not an artist or a musician or a writer, you're a scab,” pointedly invoking union language. He criticizes those who use AI for creative work, stating, “they should not be doing that,” and calls on others to speak out: “If people say, hey, we're, I'm using this or, you know, I created a flyer, just say, no, that's not right. You should not be doing that.” Tremblay urges continued support for human-created art, advocating to “reject any and all AI slop and reject shun shame, the slop purveyors.”
He concludes there is no ethical way for LLMs to be used in creative fields until artists are “paid fairly and given the permission to opt in or opt out.” Without this, LLMs “use copyrighted works without consent,” an act he considers inherently unethical.
Tremblay criticizes companies like OpenAI, arguing that “they would totally do this if they could make money without any sort of question of ethics or morality.” He links this corporate attitude to his concerns over companies deploying AI technologies with little regard for ethical lines, motivated primarily by commercial gain.
He also remarks on the broader tone of inevitability and fear propagated by corporations: “They want you to be afraid and feel like you're going to be left behind if you don't use it.” This narrative, he says, is a deliberate strategy to normalize widespread adoption of AI and discourage resistance, relying on the argument that “AI is not going away” to coerce compliance. Tremblay expresses frustration with this attitude, saying, “I don't understand why you would just so willingly accept something that, you know, you think i ...
Ai Ethics, Corporate Misconduct, Creativity and Labor Threats
Data centers, which hold vast quantities of sensitive and valuable data, face significant risks not only from cyber attacks but also from physical breaches. However, corporations often downplay these physical risks and conceal data breaches to protect their reputations, creating incentives for both inadequate security and the quiet covering up of even large-scale theft.
Nathaniel Rich discusses that security experts believe the heavy investment and focus on cyber security over the past 20 to 30 years has left the physical security of data centers lacking. Even with top-tier cyber protections, without robust physical security, such defenses can be rendered useless—analogous to leaving expensive technology in a janitor's closet. This imbalance creates opportunities for thieves who can bypass digital barriers through physical force or deception.
Rich points to promotional videos from Google that depict their data centers as cheerful and playful workplaces. However, upon closer examination, the only visible security presence consists of third-party, local subcontracted guards rather than specialized security personnel or police forces. This is notably inadequate given that these centers contain "no less than the sum of civilizational knowledge," highlighting a key vulnerability that contrasts starkly with the centers' immense informational value.
Rich and Indira Lakshmanan outline how data center heists belong to a rare category of crime in which the victims—the data center operators or client companies—often participate in covering up the extent of the breach. For example, when a thief broke into an AIG data center through the ceiling, the company only reported the loss of $10,000 in hardware rather than the much graver loss of medical records for a million individuals stored on the server.
Rich describes this as a "perfect crime" since companies prioritize projecting an image of invulnerability and security. Rather than admit to vulnerabilities or data loss that could harm their business or cause panic among clients, companies often opt to absorb the financial cost of physical losses while downplaying or denying the theft of valuable data. The public relations response is consistently to claim only hardware was damaged or that service was briefly disrupted, never that critical data was compromised. This approach both invites further criminal attempts and leaves the true scope of breaches hidden from public awareness.
Data Center Security Risks and Corporate Concealment Incentives
The themes in Paul Tremblay's latest horror novel, Dead but Dreaming of Electric Sheep, reflect deep anxieties about technological advancement stripping away personal autonomy. The story follows a gamer tasked with remotely guiding a man in a vegetative state across the country by using artificial intelligence implanted in the man’s brain.
Elissa Nadworny and Tiziana Dearing describe the disturbing central premise: a person, rendered unconscious and unresponsive, is made to physically cross a continent—his actions guided not by his own will but by the directives of a gamer using AI. This set-up provokes the fear that someone you do not even know could control your body via artificial means, simply because technology enables such access.
Paul Tremblay expands on these fears, suggesting the real terror lies in the universal anxiety of being controlled. He likens the horror of technological control to more familiar fears surrounding mental decline—such as Alzheimer's or dementia—where the mind, the core of selfhood, is at risk of being altered or taken over without permission or awareness. He raises existential questions: If someone or something can alter your psyche against your will, what remains of your authentic self? The horror is not only losing agency over the body but also over the mind, challenging the continuity of personal identity.
The novel situates the protagonist—a gamer—in circumstances dictated by technological and corporate forces. The task of guiding the brain-implanted individual highlights how struc ...
Loss of Autonomy in a Technology-Dominated World
Contemporary horror fiction has become a vehicle for critiquing the power of technology and corporations, immersing readers in unsettling visions that provoke deeper reflection on their roles as consumers or participants in technological society.
Modern horror novels increasingly employ AI threats and dystopian heist scenarios to highlight vulnerabilities in corporate systems—often more effectively than direct commentary. Through narratives intertwined with technology, horror writers prompt readers to reassess their relationships with devices, algorithms, and the corporations wielding them. The genre reveals how deeply technology has integrated into daily life while exposing unsettling dependencies and the potential dangers of unchecked corporate power.
According to Paul Tremblay, the essence of art, and especially horror, is to create discomfort that tests beliefs. He argues that art’s value comes from its capacity to question what readers take for granted, confronting them with situations that challenge their assumptions. Tremblay notes that sympathetic characters who make questionable choices foster empathy, leading readers to recognize, "But for a few things that had happened in my life, maybe that would be me." The journey of characters like Julia, motivated by economic desperation before ultimately rejecting complicity, exemplifies this approach. By engaging with such morally ambiguous characters, readers are pressured to examine their own potential for complicity in problematic technological or corporate systems.
Tremblay also incorporates disruptive typographical choices to amplify this effect, sometimes breaking the fourth wall or allowing AI-generated fonts and experimental layouts to reflect the fractured consciousness of his characters. These design elements are intended to serve the story rather than as mere gimmicks, making readers experience the characters’ psychological upheaval and underscoring the destabilizing influence of technology.
Natha ...
Using Horror Fiction to Confront Uncomfortable Truths About Corporate Technology
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