#1030 - Brett Cooper - Inside the Conservative Civil War
In this episode of Modern Wisdom, Brett Cooper and host Chris Williamson examine the current state of American conservatism, focusing on growing divisions within the movement. They explore how conservatives' stance on issues like free speech has evolved, with some now embracing tactics they previously opposed, and discuss the movement's uncertain direction in the post-Trump era.
The conversation also highlights a generational shift in conservative priorities, particularly among younger conservatives who are more focused on economic challenges than cultural issues. Cooper explains how concerns about housing affordability and student loans have begun to overshadow traditional cultural battlegrounds, suggesting that the conservative movement may need to adjust its focus to remain relevant to younger constituents.
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The Conservative Civil War and Internal Divisions
Chris Williamson and Brett Cooper explore the fracturing within the conservative movement, discussing how a once-unified party has begun showing signs of internal division. Cooper suggests that gaining control may have led to complacency, fueling internal disputes that weren't present when conservatives were out of power.
Free Speech Debates and Perceived Hypocrisy
The discussion turns to shifting stances within conservative circles, particularly regarding free speech and cancel culture. Cooper points out an ironic development: conservatives who once opposed cancel culture now sometimes engage in similar behavior, demanding the deplatforming of those with disagreeable views. Williamson expresses concern about the erosion of free speech, not just in authoritarian regimes but also in Western nations, citing examples of arrests for controversial speech in the UK.
Transitioning From Trump Era
The conservative movement faces uncertainty in the post-Trump era. Cooper identifies a potential power vacuum and suggests J.D. Vance could emerge as a unifying figure by 2028. She notes that since early 2023, the conservative movement appears to have imploded, risking fracture without a clear path forward. This division, Cooper warns, could advantage the political left in future elections.
The Perspectives of Younger Conservatives
Cooper and Williamson emphasize that young conservatives prioritize economic issues over cultural battles. Cooper notes that her generation is more concerned with affordability challenges, such as housing costs and student loans, than with cultural warfare. She jokes that her generation cares less about "owning the libs" and more about "owning a house." The discussion highlights the need for conservatives to offer practical economic solutions rather than focusing solely on cultural issues to effectively engage younger constituents.
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Counterarguments
- The perception of a fractured conservative movement could be overstated; internal debates and disagreements are natural in any political group and can lead to stronger, more refined policies and positions.
- The idea that complacency is the root cause of internal disputes could be challenged by arguing that these disputes are instead a sign of a healthy and dynamic movement that is adapting to new challenges and ideas.
- The shift in stance on free speech and cancel culture among conservatives could be seen as a strategic adaptation to the changing political landscape rather than hypocrisy.
- The erosion of free speech in Western nations might be contested by arguing that certain measures are necessary to maintain public order and protect citizens from hate speech and misinformation.
- The uncertainty in the post-Trump era could be viewed as an opportunity for the conservative movement to evolve and address the needs of a changing electorate, rather than a sign of impending fragmentation.
- The potential for J.D. Vance or any other figure to unify the conservative movement by 2028 is speculative and depends on numerous unpredictable political developments.
- The suggestion that the conservative movement's internal divisions could advantage the political left does not consider the possibility that the left may face its own internal challenges and divisions.
- The emphasis on economic issues by younger conservatives does not necessarily mean that cultural issues are unimportant to them; both can be priorities, and the two are often interconnected.
- The idea that conservatives should focus more on practical economic solutions might overlook the importance of cultural issues to many conservative voters, who may see cultural battles as essential to their values and identity.
- The notion that younger conservatives are less interested in "owning the libs" could be challenged by pointing out that political engagement often involves a combination of economic concerns and cultural expression.
Actionables
- You can start a blog or social media page focused on discussing and promoting practical economic policies that appeal to younger conservatives, emphasizing topics like housing affordability and student loan solutions. By creating content that breaks down complex economic issues into relatable and actionable advice, you can contribute to shifting the conversation towards these priorities and potentially influence public opinion and policy.
- Engage in local politics by attending town hall meetings or joining community boards to advocate for policies that align with the economic concerns of younger conservatives. By voicing your support for initiatives that address housing and education costs, you can help ensure these issues are on the local agenda and encourage politicians to take action.
- Create a reading group with friends or community members to explore books and articles on the evolution of conservative thought, particularly regarding free speech and economic policy. This can foster a deeper understanding of the issues and encourage informed discussions that go beyond cultural conflicts, potentially leading to more nuanced views and solutions.
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The Conservative Civil War and Internal Divisions
Chris Williamson and Brett Cooper examine the fracturing within the conservative movement as internal divisions and debates over the party's direction have begun to surface.
Conservatives Divided On Key Issues, Factions Compete For Future Direction
Williamson and Cooper address the marked shift in conservative unity. Williamson notes that the party, once seen as a strong unified force during the past four years, now exhibits clear signs of dissipation in that unity. Cooper suggests that gaining control might have led to a complacency that has fueled nitpicking and division within conservative ranks.
Both discuss the phenomenon of increased unity when conservatives were out of power, but the subsequent onset of infighting upon gaining power, changing the internal dynamics noticeably. This pattern underscores the struggle for direction and leadership amongst conservatives during a time when they hold significant influence.
Conservative Schism: Factions Debate Party's Future Path
The conversation shifts to the ideological conflicts that are surfacing within the conservative movement. Cooper speaks about the conservative "Civil War," wherein individuals and groups compete for views and dominance on YouTube, reflecting broader tensions within the movement. This competition often manifests through debates on the direction of the country and the conservative movement itself.
Cooper further defines the current fractures by outlining how different factions are vying for control over the party's future. The struggle to define what conservatism will look like moving forward has portions of the group reflecting conflicting visions and values.
Divisions Over Radical Elements and Cultural Concerns
Cooper discusses the spectrum of conservative ideologies, from personalities like Ben Shapiro, who is openly pro-Israel, to more right-leaning figures like the "groupers" and ...
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The Conservative Civil War and Internal Divisions
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Counterarguments
- The perception of dissipation in unity might be overstated; it could be a natural process of ideological refinement and debate that strengthens the movement in the long run.
- The idea that complacency is the root cause of division could be challenged by suggesting that the divisions are instead due to a healthy and vigorous debate about the party's priorities and values.
- The notion of increased unity when out of power versus infighting when in power could be countered by arguing that internal debate is a constant in any political movement, regardless of its power status.
- The term "Civil War" might be an exaggeration, as ideological debates within a party do not necessarily equate to a breakdown of the movement but can indicate a dynamic and evolving political discourse.
- The range of conservative ideologies mentioned may not fully represent the diversity within the conservative movement, and the focus on certain personalities might overlook grassroots or less visible conservative thinkers and activists.
- The criticism faced by middle-ground influencers like Megyn Kelly and Charlie Kirk could be seen as a sign of a robust marketplace of ideas rather than a weakness or a gap within the movement.
- The division over ...
Actionables
- You can foster constructive dialogue by starting a book club focused on conservative thought, inviting members with diverse viewpoints. By reading and discussing works from various conservative authors, you'll engage with the spectrum of ideologies within the movement, promoting understanding and potentially reducing infighting. For example, one month you might read a traditional conservative author, and the next, a libertarian-leaning one, followed by a discussion on how these perspectives can coexist within the broader conservative framework.
- Develop critical thinking skills by creating a personal "ideology map" that charts out where you stand on key issues compared to different conservative factions. This exercise helps you understand your own beliefs better and where they align or diverge from others within the movement. You might find that you agree with one faction on fiscal policies but align more closely with another on cultural issues, which can guide you in future discussions and affiliations.
- Encourage unity through shared goals by voluntee ...
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Free Speech Debates and the Issue of Hypocrisy
Cooper and Williamson discuss the changing stances within conservative circles on matters of free speech and highlight perceived hypocrisy when it comes to cancel culture and accountability.
Conservatives Once Opposed Purity Tests, Cancel Culture, now Embrace Them
Cooper talks about conservatives who once rallied against purity tests and cancel culture, but now seem to engage in the behavior they denounced by demanding the cancellation or deplatforming of individuals whose views they find disagreeable.
Conservatives Demand Distancing From or Condemnation of Disagreeable Individuals, Mirroring Criticized Tactics
Cooper notes a purity test within conservative circles where public figures, like Megyn Kelly, are criticized for not fitting neatly into any one conservative faction, which she sees as a reflection of the cancel culture conservatives once criticized. She points out that conservatives now amplify "woke" news stories, insisting on a stance against them, and conducting what appears to be their own form of purity tests or cancel culture.
Cooper mentions how Tucker Carlson's son is faced with demands from conservatives to disavow his father, a tactic that conservatives have criticized when used by others.
Perceived Hypocrisy Around Free Speech and Accountability Frustrates
Williamson expresses concerns about the erosion of the freedom to criticize one's own country, fearing that this isn't just an issue in authoritarian regimes like Iran or North Korea, but also emerging in places like the UK and other parts of Western civilization. Cooper supports Williamson's concern, citing the example of individuals getting arrested at the airport for making trans jokes, referring specifically to a case involving Graham Linehan.
She also expresses frustration with perceived hypocrisy within the conservative movement around free speech and accountability and a ...
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Free Speech Debates and the Issue of Hypocrisy
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Clarifications
- "Purity tests" are informal standards used within political or social groups to judge whether members hold the "correct" beliefs or behaviors. Failing these tests can lead to exclusion or criticism from the group. They often create division by demanding strict ideological conformity. This can stifle open debate and encourage cancel culture.
- Cancel culture refers to the practice of publicly calling out and boycotting individuals or groups for behavior or statements considered offensive or unacceptable. It often involves social media campaigns demanding consequences like firing, deplatforming, or social ostracism. Critics argue it suppresses free speech and promotes intolerance, while supporters see it as accountability. Examples include celebrities losing endorsements or jobs after controversial remarks.
- Megyn Kelly is a former Fox News anchor known for her influential role in conservative media. She gained prominence for interviewing high-profile political figures and covering major conservative issues. Kelly has faced criticism from some conservatives for her moderate or independent views. Her significance lies in being a high-profile figure who does not always align strictly with any single conservative faction.
- "Woke" originally referred to awareness of social injustices, especially related to race and inequality. Conservatives often use the term critically to describe progressive ideas they oppose. Amplifying "woke" news stories means highlighting these issues to criticize or mock them. This tactic can rally their base by framing such stories as examples of excessive political correctness.
- Graham Linehan is an Irish writer and director known for creating popular TV comedies like "The IT Crowd." He became a controversial figure due to his outspoken criticism of transgender rights and gender identity policies. His arrest mentioned relates to allegations of public order offenses after making transphobic remarks, which sparked debates on free speech and hate speech laws. This case highlights tensions between protecting free expression and preventing harm to marginalized groups.
- Free speech is the right to express opinions without censorship or restraint. Accountability means facing consequences, like criticism or social backlash, for what one says. In conservative debates, tension arises when free speech is defended but calls for accountability are seen as censorship. This creates conflict over where to draw the line between protecting expression and enforcing social or political responsibility.
- Alex Cooper is a media personality known for hosting the podcast "Call Her Daddy," where she openly discussed casual relationships and modern dating culture. Her views have been associated with promoting sexual freedom a ...
Counterarguments
- Conservatives may argue that their actions are not hypocritical but rather a response to changing cultural and political landscapes, and that they are adapting to new forms of political activism and discourse.
- Some may contend that what is perceived as a purity test is actually an attempt to maintain a consistent ideological stance within the conservative movement.
- It could be argued that conservatives are not engaging in cancel culture but are instead holding individuals accountable to the standards and values they profess to support.
- There may be a belief that the demands for disavowal are not equivalent to cancel culture but are calls for clarification of stance and accountability within political and social discourse.
- The erosion of freedom to criticize one's own country might be seen as a complex issue, with some arguing that certain restrictions are necessary to maintain public order or prevent hate speech.
- The legal consequences faced by individuals for offensive jokes or statements could be defended on the grounds of protecting the rights and dignity of marginalized groups.
- Some conservatives might assert that the movement is not hypocritical about free speech and accountability but is instead grappling with the complexities of applying these principles in a rapidly changing social context.
- The call for open debate might be met with the argument that not all ideas are equally valid ...
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Transitioning From Trump Era and Future of Conservatism
The conservative movement is presently wrestling with its identity and direction in the aftermath of the Trump presidency, raising questions about its future and the potential for internal division.
Conservative Movement Grapples With Defining Itself Without Trump
Concerns About a Power Vacuum and the Need for a Unifying Figure While Valuing Debate
Experts like Brett Cooper point out the conservative movement may be facing a power vacuum, and without Trump's direct influence, there is uncertainty about its future. Cooper implies that this state of flux has been causing a debate within the movement. She suggests that a unifying figure is needed to fill this gap and mentions the potential of J.D. Vance as such a figure by 2028. For Vance's messaging to resonate with the MAGA base and the wider conservative populace, she states that it must be clear and distinct from the neocon framework.
Chris Williamson adds another perspective, expressing concern over the demographic changes and the impact of immigration policies on the middle and upper-working classes, groups that were considered the core support for Trump and potential candidates like Vance.
Conservatives Risk Fracturing Without a Clear Path Forward
The discussion then moves to how Conservatives risk fracturing without a clear path forward, as Cooper notes. She feels that since January or February, the conservative movement appears to have imploded. This fracturing could give power to the left which spells trouble for conservatives in future elections, especially if they become overly critical and disunited. Cooper emphasizes the need to rally behind a leader to win and underscores the par ...
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Transitioning From Trump Era and Future of Conservatism
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Counterarguments
- The conservative movement has a diverse base with varying ideologies, and it may not be necessary to have a single unifying figure; a coalition of leaders could represent the spectrum of conservative thought more effectively.
- The idea that J.D. Vance or any single individual must become the new face of conservatism by 2028 is speculative and overlooks the potential for other leaders to emerge.
- The conservative movement's identity may not be in as much crisis as suggested; it could be undergoing a natural period of re-evaluation and adjustment common to political movements after a change in leadership.
- The notion that the conservative movement has imploded since early 2023 could be an overstatement, as political movements often experience ebbs and flows in unity and direction.
- The assertion that conservative disunity could empower the political left assumes a zero-sum game; it's possible for multiple political ideologies to evolve and adapt without one necessarily overpowering the other.
- The idea that the MAGA movement is dead may be premature; political movements often have enduring impacts and can resurface in new forms.
- The impact of demographic changes and immigration policies on the conservative base may not be as straightforward as suggested; these factors can also bring new supporters to the conservative movement.
- The need ...
Actionables
- You can start a book club focused on conservative political theory to better understand the movement's roots and potential directions. Gather a small group of friends or community members interested in politics, and select books that explore conservative philosophy, the impact of demographic changes on politics, and leadership principles. This will help you form a well-rounded view of what the future of conservatism might look like and how leaders like J.D. Vance could shape it.
- Engage in local political discussions to gauge the sentiment of conservatives in your area. Attend town hall meetings, join online forums, or participate in social media groups where political discussions are happening. Listen actively to understand the concerns and ideas of others, which will give you a clearer picture of what unifies and divides conservatives at the grassroots level.
- Volunteer for a ...
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The Perspectives and Concerns of Younger Conservatives
Young Conservatives Prioritize Affordability and Economic Opportunity Over Cultural Battles
Cooper and Williamson discuss the necessity for the conservative movement to comprehend its appeal to Generation Z, highlighting that economic issues take precedence over cultural battles for younger conservatives. Cooper, voicing her and her Gen Z counterparts' concerns, emphasizes that they are anxious about real-life affordability issues, such as housing costs and student loans. These economic challenges overshadow their interest in cultural issues. She expresses empathy for young people who feel unable to catch up, indicating that the Trump administration's economic impacts have not yet been truly felt by them.
Brett Cooper emphasizes the paramount importance of affordability and the economy for voters, particularly going into the 2024 election, even over social issues. She points out the relevance of economic issues among young women who, despite leaning further left on social matters, also vote based on economic and affordability considerations. Cooper highlights that for young people, problems like being unable to buy a house, under significant debt, high taxes, and the inability to start a family are more pressing concerns than foreign affairs or cultural issues.
Conservatives Must Offer Solutions, Not Just Cultural Emphases, to Connect With the Next Generation
Addressing the next generation's priorities requires more than cultural rhetoric; tangible improvements in their lives are what resonate. Cooper jokes that her generation cares less about "owning the libs" and more about "owning a house," signaling a shift toward economic stability over culture wars. Moreover, Cooper discusses the harmful narrative from some right-wing voices suggesting women "hit a wall" at 30, which contributes to an already existing pressure from the child-free movement on young women deliberating family life.
Cooper opens up about the overwhelming feeling she had after giving birth, questioning whether the timing of her motherhood was right due to the intense demands of new parenthood. She talks about the challenges women face regarding career decisions after having babies, underlying the need for families to receive practical support. Cooper further suggests that the right sometimes advocates for a higher birth rate without considering the logistics for working women and points to figures like JD, who may do well in providing support for families.
Chris ...
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The Perspectives and Concerns of Younger Conservatives
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Clarifications
- The Trump administration implemented tax cuts aimed at stimulating economic growth, which primarily benefited corporations and higher-income individuals. It also pursued deregulation policies intended to reduce business costs and encourage investment. However, critics argue these measures did not significantly improve affordability for younger generations facing housing and student loan challenges. Additionally, trade policies and tariffs introduced uncertainty in some markets, affecting economic stability.
- "Owning the libs" is a slang phrase used by some conservatives to describe the act of provoking or irritating liberals, often through social media or political statements. It focuses on winning cultural or ideological arguments rather than addressing policy issues. The phrase implies prioritizing symbolic victories over practical solutions. This approach can alienate younger voters who prefer tangible economic improvements.
- The child-free movement consists of individuals who choose not to have children, often advocating for personal freedom and environmental or economic reasons. It challenges traditional expectations that women should prioritize motherhood. This movement influences young women's family decisions by normalizing the choice to remain child-free and highlighting the social and financial pressures of parenting. It can create additional societal pressure or validation for women weighing whether to have children.
- The average age for first-time homebuyers exceeding 40 indicates that many people are delaying homeownership much later in life than previous generations. This delay often results from economic challenges like high housing prices, student debt, and stagnant wages. It can affect financial stability, wealth building, and life planning, such as starting a family. This trend reflects broader affordability issues impacting younger adults' ability to achieve traditional milestones.
- The phrase that women "hit a wall" at 30 is a right-wing narrative suggesting that women's fertility and career prospects sharply decline after age 30. It often implies that women must choose between having children early or sacrificing family life for career success. This idea is used to pressure women into traditional family roles and criticize delayed motherhood. Critics argue it oversimplifies complex social and biological factors and ignores the need for systemic support for working mothers.
- The broader cultural battles often refer to debates over issues like abortion, LGBTQ+ rights, racial justice, and free speech. These topics have historically divided conservatives and liberals, shaping political identity and activism. Younger conservatives, however, prioritize economic stability over these social debates. This shift reflects a desire for practical solutions rather than ideological conflicts.
- The "conservative movement" refers to a political and social ideology that emphasizes limited government, free markets, traditional values, and ...
Counterarguments
- Economic issues and cultural issues are interconnected, and focusing solely on the former may not address the root causes of some societal challenges.
- The impact of the Trump administration's economic policies may be more nuanced and could have had positive effects that are not immediately apparent or are overshadowed by broader economic trends.
- Cultural issues can have significant long-term impacts on society, and it's important not to dismiss them as irrelevant to younger generations.
- The assumption that young conservatives are not interested in foreign affairs might be an oversimplification, as global events can have profound effects on national economies and security, which in turn affect affordability and economic opportunity.
- The narrative that conservatives must shift their focus to economic issues to appeal to younger voters may not account for the diversity of opinions within the demographic, as some young conservatives may still prioritize cultural or social issues.
- The idea that the conservative movement has not provided practical support for families could be challenged by pointing out existing or proposed conservative policies aimed at family support, such as tax credits or childcare initiatives.
- The rise in the average age for first-time homebuyers could be influenced by factors beyond economic policy, such as changing cultural norms around homeownership and family formation.
- The disillusionment of young people with financial bu ...
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