#1021 - Louise Perry & Mary Harrington - The Performative Male Epidemic
In this Modern Wisdom episode, Louise Perry and Mary Harrington explore shifting gender dynamics and relationship patterns in contemporary society. They examine data showing declining rates of sexual activity and births in the US, discussing how factors like smartphones, obesity rates, and changing social norms contribute to these trends. The guests analyze emerging male archetypes in modern dating and how they reflect post-#MeToo cultural adaptations.
The conversation also covers how technology has altered traditional relationship formation, contrasting historical social structures with today's online-dominated landscape. Perry and Harrington discuss the intersection of gender and political movements, examining how different ideologies appeal to women and how online spaces have transformed social dynamics, particularly in how people form connections and express moral judgments.
This is a preview of the Shortform summary of the Nov 17, 2025 episode of the Modern Wisdom
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1-Page Summary
Demographic and Relationship Trends
Recent data shows a striking decline in both sexual activity and birth rates in the United States. According to experts, sexual activity among American adults has dropped from 55% having weekly sex in 1990 to just 37% today. Louise Perry suggests this decrease might be linked to changing gender dynamics, obesity rates, and biological factors.
The experts note a paradoxical trend: while society has become more accepting of casual sex, there's actually less sex happening within committed relationships. Mary Harrington points to smartphones as a major disruptor of spontaneous intimacy, while both she and Alice Evans connect this technology to declining birth rates.
Shifting Gender Dynamics and Archetypes
The discussion explores two emerging male archetypes in modern dating. Chris Williamson describes the "performative male," characterized by floppy hair, oversized clothes, and non-threatening behavior—a response to post-#MeToo expectations. This archetype represents men trying to appear less traditionally masculine while still seeking romantic attention.
In contrast, Louise Perry and Mary Harrington discuss the rise of the "himbo"—a physically impressive but emotionally open and politically ambiguous male archetype. Perry notes that many women prefer this type of partner, who can offer protection and support without being overly intellectual or aggressive.
Technology and Modern Culture's Impact on Relationships
The experts express concern about the decline of traditional social structures and in-person interactions. Harrington nostalgically references British village life as an example of organic relationship building through repeated interactions—a stark contrast to today's online-dominated social landscape.
The digital age has introduced new challenges to dating and intimacy. Harrington explains that without high-trust societies, direct approaches to potential partners can lead to negative responses. Perry notes the decline of structured social events like dinner parties where couples traditionally met, while Williamson discusses how fear of reputational damage affects men's willingness to initiate romantic contact.
The Political/Cultural Divides Emerging Along Gender Lines
The conversation turns to examining how gender influences political alignment and online discourse. Perry and Harrington explore women's attraction to "traditionalist" political movements, noting how certain political ideologies appeal to women through emotional connections and desires to protect vulnerable groups.
In online spaces, Perry observes that both "woke" and "anti-woke" movements exhibit similar patterns of behavior, particularly in their "purity spirals." Harrington adds that the internet can amplify traditional women's roles through moral dogpiling, creating a magnified version of historical village dynamics in the digital sphere.
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Clarifications
- The term "performative male" refers to men who consciously adopt a softer, less traditionally masculine appearance and behavior to align with contemporary social expectations, especially after the #MeToo movement. This performance is often strategic, aiming to appear non-threatening and socially acceptable while still seeking romantic interest. It reflects a shift from overt displays of traditional masculinity to a more curated, image-conscious identity. The implication is that masculinity is being renegotiated in dating culture, balancing societal pressures with personal desires.
- The "himbo" archetype is a cultural term describing a man who is physically attractive and muscular but perceived as less intellectually focused. This figure is often emotionally open, kind, and non-threatening, contrasting with traditional masculine stereotypes of dominance and aggression. The himbo appeals as a partner who combines physical strength with warmth and simplicity. Its rise reflects shifting gender expectations and a desire for gentler masculinity in modern relationships.
- The #MeToo movement, which gained prominence around 2017, exposed widespread sexual harassment and assault, especially by powerful men. This led to increased awareness and stricter social norms around male behavior in dating and workplaces. Men now often feel pressure to avoid actions that could be perceived as aggressive or inappropriate. As a result, some adopt more cautious, less traditionally masculine behaviors to navigate these new expectations.
- "Purity spirals" refer to escalating demands within a group for members to demonstrate increasing ideological purity or moral superiority. In both "woke" and "anti-woke" movements, this leads to intense competition over who is the most committed to the cause. This often results in exclusion or shaming of those seen as insufficiently aligned. The dynamic can create rigid, intolerant communities despite differing political goals.
- Moral dogpiling refers to a group of people collectively criticizing or shaming someone for perceived moral failings, often online. This behavior mirrors traditional women's roles in enforcing social norms and community standards within small, close-knit groups. Online, it amplifies these dynamics by enabling rapid, widespread judgment and social policing. It can reinforce conformity and pressure individuals to adhere to specific moral or cultural expectations.
- British village life traditionally involved small, close-knit communities where people interacted regularly in shared spaces like pubs, markets, and churches. These repeated face-to-face encounters fostered trust and familiarity, making it easier to form and maintain relationships. Social events were often communal and structured, providing natural opportunities for meeting potential partners. This contrasts with modern, digital interactions that lack the same depth of personal connection and social context.
- Smartphones increase screen time, reducing face-to-face social interactions and opportunities for intimacy. They also facilitate distractions and social comparison, which can lower relationship satisfaction. Online dating apps, accessed via smartphones, often promote casual encounters over long-term commitments. These factors contribute to fewer stable relationships, leading to declining birth rates.
- High-trust societies are communities where people generally believe others will act honestly and fairly. This trust reduces fear of rejection or harm when approaching someone romantically. It encourages open, direct communication because social risks are lower. Without this trust, people may avoid direct advances to prevent negative social consequences.
- "Traditionalist" political movements often emphasize preserving established social roles, including conventional family structures and gender roles. These movements may advocate for policies that support motherhood, family stability, and cultural or religious values. Women may be drawn to them due to emotional appeals centered on protection, community, and nurturing vulnerable groups. Such alignment reflects a desire for social order and clear roles amid rapid cultural changes.
- The "digital age" refers to the era dominated by internet and smartphone use, changing how people communicate and form relationships. Dating apps replace traditional meeting places, often emphasizing quick judgments based on profiles rather than deep interaction. Constant online connectivity can reduce face-to-face encounters, weakening emotional bonds and spontaneous intimacy. Social media also creates pressure to present idealized versions of oneself, complicating genuine connection.
Counterarguments
- The correlation between smartphone usage and declining birth rates might be oversimplified, as there are numerous factors that contribute to birth rates, including economic conditions, access to contraception, and personal choice.
- The concept of the "performative male" and "himbo" may not capture the full spectrum of male behavior and identity, as these archetypes can be seen as reductive and not representative of all men's experiences.
- The decline in traditional social structures and in-person interactions might not be universally negative, as online platforms can also foster new communities and relationships that were not possible before.
- The idea that British village life is an ideal form of organic relationship building may romanticize the past and overlook the limitations and exclusions of such communities.
- The assertion that direct romantic approaches are riskier in a low-trust society may not account for the ways in which consent and respect for boundaries have become more central to modern dating practices.
- The suggestion that women are attracted to "traditionalist" political movements for emotional and protective reasons could be seen as a simplification of women's political agency and the complex reasons behind their political affiliations.
- The comparison of "woke" and "anti-woke" movements' "purity spirals" may not fully acknowledge the distinct ideologies and goals of these groups, despite any superficial similarities in behavior.
- The claim that the internet amplifies traditional women's roles through moral dogpiling may not consider the diverse ways women engage with and shape online spaces, often challenging traditional roles.
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Demographic and Relationship Trends
Us Birth and Sexual Activity Decline
Recent discussions among experts point to a stark decline in both sexual activity and birth rates in the United States, which could be due to emerging cultural norms and technological distractions.
American Adults Having Sex Weekly Decline From 55% in 1990 to 37% Today
Americans are presently experiencing a record low in sexual activity, with only 37% of American adults having sex weekly, a significant drop from 55% in 1990. Louise Perry raises the question of whether this decrease in sexual frequency is related to the rise of the "La Booboo male" archetype and the need for more defined gender dynamics, while also citing obesity, and biological factors such as xenostrogens as potential contributing factors.
Factors Contributing To Declining Coupling and Birth Rates
A decline in coupling and birth rates is observed, with experts suggesting various contributing factors, ranging from changes in personal to socio-economic factors.
Shift Towards Later Marriage and Fewer Long-Term Relationships
Perry observes that there are many desirable women at Christian mingle events desperate for a spouse but unable to find one, which suggests a decline in coupling. She notes that a paradox exists where society is more accepting of casual sex, yet there's less sex within committed relationships. The increased prevalence of role models who are single and childless may discourage traditional family structures.
Social Media and Technology's Impact on Relationships and Intimacy
Technology's intrusion into relationships is highlighted by all speakers. Harrington describes smartphone use as deeply absorbing and disruptive to spontaneous sexual activity, and both she and Alice Evans blame smartphones for impacting birth rates. The speakers worry about the presence of casual sex in the culture, arguing that it coexists with a decline in sexual activity due to fewer long-te ...
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Demographic and Relationship Trends
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Counterarguments
- The correlation between the "La Booboo male" archetype and declining sexual activity is not definitively established and could be influenced by a broader range of social and psychological factors.
- The impact of xenostrogens and obesity on sexual activity and birth rates may be overstated without considering other environmental and lifestyle factors that could also play significant roles.
- The acceptance of casual sex does not necessarily lead to a decrease in sexual activity within committed relationships; other factors such as stress, work-life balance, and personal choice may also be influential.
- The influence of single and childless role models on discouraging traditional family structures could be counterbalanced by the increasing diversity of family models and the growing acceptance of different lifestyles.
- The assertion that smartphone use and technology are primarily disruptive to sexual activity and relationships may overlook the ways in which technology can facilitate communication and connection between individuals.
- Professional careers and dual-income households may not always preclude long-term commitments; for some, they may provide the financial stability and personal fulfillment that support long-term relationships.
- The role of social media in exposing personal lives and affecting intimate relationships ...
Actionables
- You can create a "tech-free" evening routine to enhance intimacy with your partner, where both of you agree to put away smartphones and other devices for a set period each night. This dedicated time allows for more spontaneous interactions and can strengthen your connection, countering the negative impact of constant connectivity on relationships.
- Organize a monthly "potluck dinner" with friends and neighbors to foster a sense of community and encourage social interactions that could lead to new relationships. By sharing a meal in a relaxed, communal setting, you create an environment conducive to forming connections without the pressure of traditional dating scenarios.
- Start a personal "fitness and wellness" challenge that focuses on improving physical health as a wa ...
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Shifting Gender Dynamics and Archetypes
Harrington, Williamson, and Perry explore the nuances of evolving gender roles and the impact of societal changes on male archetypes.
Emergence of the "Performative Male" Archetype
The discussion revolves around men adapting to new expectations for less traditionally masculine behavior and the emergence of the "performative male" archetype as a response to these societal shifts.
Aesthetic: Floppy Hair, Oversized Clothes, Totes, Matcha
Chris Williamson describes the performative male as having an aesthetic that includes floppy hair, probably oversized clothes like flared jeans, carrying totes, and consuming trendy items like matcha drinks. This particular style is quickly satirized, much like the term "woke" was before it. Perry adds that this archetype might be consumer-driven, suggesting a trend towards embracing certain fashion attributes.
Response to Post-#metoo Expectations of Less Masculine Behavior
The performative male archetype, as Williamson mentions, includes traits such as non-threatening behavior as a response to post-Me Too expectations for less traditionally masculine behavior. Harrington notes that this is a result of men socialized within a progressive environment internalizing the idea that traditional forms of masculine aggression are undesirable. Williamson comments that Me Too's message for men not to be pushy has been over-applied by those who were never pushy to begin with, which has led to the prevalence of this new, more cautious male archetype.
Attempt to Appear Non-threatening While Seeking Romantic Attention
Williamson and Harrington discuss how some men try to appear non-threatening while still seeking romantic attention, adopting a less aggressive and more consensual demeanor. This "La Boo Boo Man" is characterized by attempting to pose as softer or as someone who prefers less domineering and entitled forms of engagement in a romantic context, in line with current social expectations.
Rise of the "Himbo" as Idealized Male Partner
Louise Perry and Mary Harrington delve into the allure of the "himbo," a new ideal for some women in choosing a partner.
Physically Impressive but Emotionally Open and Politically Ambiguous
Williamson introduces the term "himbo" as someone beefy, placid, and politically ambiguous, representing a mix of physical impression with emotional openness. Chris Bumstead, a masculine figure embodying these qualities, is mentioned as an example of this archetype.
Appealing To Women Seeking Protective and Supportive Partners
...
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Shifting Gender Dynamics and Archetypes
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Counterarguments
- The concept of the "performative male" may oversimplify the complexity of gender expression and identity, ignoring the individual variations and motivations behind men's behaviors and fashion choices.
- The idea that men are adapting to less traditionally masculine behavior could be seen as reinforcing binary gender norms, rather than recognizing a spectrum of masculinities or the influence of non-binary and genderqueer identities on societal roles.
- The notion that the "performative male" archetype is consumer-driven might overlook deeper cultural and psychological factors influencing men's choices beyond consumer trends.
- The interpretation of the Me Too movement's impact on male behavior could be viewed as an oversimplification, not accounting for the diverse ways in which men have understood and responded to the movement's call for respect and equality.
- The "La Boo Boo Man" archetype might be criticized for potentially trivializing the genuine efforts of men who are consciously trying to engage in more respectful and consensual romantic behaviors.
- The appeal of the "himbo" archetype could be challenged by suggesting that it still upholds traditional gender roles and physical standards that may be unattainable or undesirable for many men.
- The preference for "high-status" men as described might be critiqued for perpetuating classist or materialistic values in partner selection.
- Th ...
Actionables
- You can explore your personal style by creating a mood board that reflects a blend of traditional and emerging male archetypes. Start by collecting images and items that resonate with you, whether they're from fashion magazines, social media, or your own wardrobe. This visual collage can help you identify what aspects of the "performative male," "La Boo Boo Man," or "himbo" archetypes you relate to and wish to express in your own style.
- Reflect on your behavior in social and romantic situations by journaling your experiences and reactions. After interactions where gender roles might play a part, such as dates or group conversations, take some time to write down how you acted, how you felt, and how others responded to you. This can help you become more aware of your own tendencies towards traditional or non-traditional masculine behaviors and consider adjustments you might want to make ...
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Technology and Modern Culture's Impact on Relationships and Dating
The rise of technology and the shifting cultural landscape have significantly affected traditional social structures, dating, and relationships.
Decline of Traditional Social Structures and In-person Interactions
Perry, Williamson, and Harrington raise concerns about how modern life has lessened face-to-face interactions, with Perry expressing that she sees Donald Trump's face more than her neighbors’. They discuss the reduced opportunities for spontaneous social connections and the loss of mentorship and guidance from older generations.
Reduced Organic Relationship Opportunities in Shared Communities and Activities
Harrington nostalgically references classic British village life as a functioning social fabric, where people's repeated interactions at common gathering spaces naturally foster relationships—a stark contrast to modern relationships known more through online data and less through shared experiences.
Loss of Mentors and Role Models for Young Men
Williamson points out the absence of wisdom-bearing figures in young people’s lives, such as "aunties" or trusted men, and notes their importance in community life. Harrington focuses on the disappearance of intergenerational networks, particularly affecting young men in fatherless households and identifies gangs as one of the remaining, yet harmful, mentorship options.
Dating and Intimacy Challenges in the Digital Age
Perry, Williamson, and Harrington discuss various aspects of how technology affects the contemporary dating scene, often leading to impersonal and superficial interactions.
Reputation Fear and Social Pressure Discouraging Direct Approaches
Harrington explains that historically, spouses were met through interlocking social networks rather than cold approaches, which, without a high trust society, could lead to negative responses, such as fear or police involvement. Perry notes the decline of dinner parties and structured social events where potential couples could be introduced. Williamson and Perry also discuss the impact of the MeToo movement on men's hesitancy to make the first move due to fear of reputational damage.
Assessing Partners' Character and Intentions Online
Harrington mentions the T-app as a flawed online substitute for the communal knowledge once used to assess individual trustworthiness, demonstrating the cha ...
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Technology and Modern Culture's Impact on Relationships and Dating
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Counterarguments
- While technology may reduce face-to-face interactions, it also creates new opportunities for connection that transcend geographical boundaries, allowing for diverse and global relationships.
- Mentorship and guidance from older generations can still occur through modern platforms, such as online forums, social media, and virtual mentorship programs.
- Online communities can also foster a sense of belonging and provide repeated social interactions, albeit in a different form than traditional village life.
- Digital platforms can offer more control and safety in dating, allowing individuals to vet potential partners before meeting in person.
- The MeToo movement has also encouraged a more respectful and consensual approach to dating and romantic advances.
- Online tools and social media can provide insights into a person's character and intentions, although they may not be as comprehensive as communal knowledge.
- Modern relationships that prioritize appearance and status may reflect personal choice and autonomy rather than a transactional approach.
- The concept of "marrying down" educationally does not necessarily reflect a transactional decision but could be based on a broader range of values and compatibility factors beyond education and finances.
- Some individuals ...
Actionables
- You can foster deeper social connections by initiating a "neighborhood book club" that meets regularly in person. This creates an opportunity for face-to-face interactions and can help bridge generational gaps as people of all ages share their perspectives on the chosen books. For example, invite a mix of neighbors from different age groups to discuss a book each month, encouraging mentorship and shared experiences.
- Start a "skills swap" within your community to encourage mentorship and learning across generations. Offer to teach something you're skilled at, like cooking or computer basics, in exchange for learning from someone else, such as gardening or car repair. This exchange not only provides practical skills but also builds relationships and intergenerational networks in a natural setting.
- Create a "real connection challenge" where you commit to making one new ...
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The Political/Cultural Divides Emerging Along Gender Lines
The discussion delves deep into the nuanced gender dynamics influencing political and social landscapes, scrutinizing women’s attraction to certain political ideologies and the gender-coded interactions within online discourse.
Women's Attraction to "Traditionalist" Political Movements
Louise Perry and Mary Harrington explore women’s complex relationship with 'traditionalist' political movements, noting emotional and social considerations that drive this alignment.
Emotional Appeal of Movements Protecting the Vulnerable
Certain political movements attract women by leveraging maternal instincts to protect perceived vulnerable groups such as trans people or refugees. Perry notes young women’s strong emotional energy towards ethnic minorities and refugees as needing protection, a trait commonly associated with political movements on the left. Additionally, there may be a shifting perspective among working-class women in Britain who change focus to view their own children as the vulnerable group deserving protection.
Desire For Stability in Social and Economic Upheaval
The uncertain political and economic climate might lead women to reassess the traits they value in a partner. Harrington speculates that women without children might gravitate toward the "refugees welcome" movement as an expression of a more abstract set of affections, as opposed to the particular concerns a mother might have. She also suggests the appearance of young men who haven't been influenced by a less masculine archetype could be related to migration issues, implying that some women may find traditional masculinity appealing for its perceived stability and resilience.
Gendered Dynamics Within Online Political Discourse
As politics become increasingly digital, Louise Perry and Mary Harrington consider the way gender influences online political behavior and the impact this may have on wider cultural divides.
Tribalism and "Purity Spirals" in "Woke" and "Anti-Woke" Movements Similarities
Perry discusses the “dissident right,” noting that while it often presents hyper-masculine views, these groups still engage in behaviors typically characterized as feminine, such as online gossip and bickering. She points out "purity spirals" within these groups, underlining that both "woke" and "anti-woke" movements exhibit similar patterns of social behavior.
Harrington talks about how the internet can amplify traditional women's roles by enabling moral dogpiling, where groups attack someone for moral infractions. This can be like a magnified, online version of women's village interactions, often with fewer real-life consequences.
Potential For Dynamics to Entrench Gender-Based Political Divides
Perry argues that "woke" politi ...
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The Political/Cultural Divides Emerging Along Gender Lines
Additional Materials
Counterarguments
- The idea that women are attracted to traditionalist movements primarily due to emotional and social considerations could be oversimplified, as women's political affiliations are influenced by a wide range of factors including personal values, education, economic status, and individual experiences.
- The notion that maternal instincts drive women's political alignments might be seen as reductive and not reflective of the diverse motivations behind women's political engagement.
- The suggestion that women's protective focus shifts from broader societal issues to their own children could be challenged by evidence of women's sustained activism in various social causes that do not directly affect their immediate family.
- The concept that women reassess the traits they value in a partner during times of upheaval might not account for the complexity of human relationships and the multitude of reasons that influence partner choice.
- The idea that traditional masculinity is appealing for its perceived stability and resilience could be contested by those who argue that masculinity is a social construct with diverse expressions, and that stability and resilience are not inherently masculine traits.
- The assertion that online political discourse is gendered might be too broad, as online behavior is influenced by many factors beyond gender, such as cultural background, age, and individual personality.
- The comparison of online behavior to traditional women's roles could be seen as perpetuating stereotypes about women's social interactions and may not reflect the diversity of women's behavior online.
- The claim that "woke" politics resonate more with young women than men could be challenged by pointing out that political engagement is complex and not stri ...
Actionables
- You can explore your own political beliefs by journaling about the emotional and social factors that influence your views. Reflect on how your personal experiences with family, community, and social issues shape your political alignment. For example, consider how your role as a caregiver or your concerns about local economic conditions might affect your stance on immigration or social welfare policies.
- Engage in conversations with friends or family members of different genders to understand how they interact with political content online. Notice if there are patterns in the types of political narratives or behaviors they exhibit, such as sharing certain types of articles or engaging in online debates. This can help you see firsthand how gender may play a role in political discourse and behavior.
- Volunteer for a local polit ...
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