In this episode of Making Sense with Sam Harris, Sherry Turkle and Sam Harris examine how smartphones and social media have fundamentally altered human connection and empathy. Turkle traces the shift since 2010 toward preferring mediated communication over face-to-face interaction, exploring how corporate profit motives transformed digital platforms from tools that strengthened communities into systems designed to maximize engagement through anger and division.
The conversation addresses the distinction between genuine human empathy and AI's simulated version, questioning what happens when people increasingly accept chatbots as substitutes for authentic relationships. Turkle and Harris also discuss the developmental consequences of constant digital stimulation, including the loss of solitude and boredom necessary for psychological growth, and how the erosion of conversational skills among young people threatens both individual well-being and democratic society. The episode offers a critical look at technology's role in shaping modern relationships and social cohesion.

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Sherry Turkle and Sam Harris discuss how smartphones and social media have fundamentally eroded genuine human connection and empathy.
Turkle observes that since smartphones became widespread around 2010, people increasingly prefer texting over talking, citing real conversations as too difficult and demanding. This shift reflects a retreat from the vulnerability and unpredictability of spontaneous dialogue, with many now preferring to interact with avatars rather than navigate complex human relationships. Turkle confirms that quantitative research, including psychologist Sarah Conroth's study, documents measurable declines in empathy indicators between 2010 and 2014.
Turkle contrasts early computing pioneers who aimed to use technology to strengthen real-world communities with current tech leaders like Mark Zuckerberg, who through Meta suggests replacing authentic friendships with virtual ones—avatars and chatbots—because real connections are too demanding. This corporate approach has led people to withdraw from genuine community engagement in favor of screen-based, algorithmically mediated interactions.
Turkle argues that losing the capacity for solitude undermines authentic relationships. Without the ability to sit alone and tolerate silence, people cannot develop the internal stability needed for genuine connections. Instead, they become needy, seeking validation rather than engaging as autonomous individuals capable of mutual self-recognition.
Turkle recalls how early platforms like Facebook initially connected people innocently—enabling grandmothers to see baby pictures and classmates to reconnect. However, once corporate profit motives took over, companies optimized platforms for engagement at all costs. Harris highlights banner ads and algorithmic feeds as early tactics, while Turkle explains that experts engineered platforms to provoke anger and create echo chambers, keeping users glued to screens for maximum ad revenue and data extraction.
Turkle argues this model undermines democracy, which requires citizens to communicate across differences and tolerate diverse perspectives. Instead, algorithms create echo chambers where people feel comfortable only with their own kind while remaining angry at outsiders. Trapped in these environments, individuals become anxious, withdrawn, and lose the ability to navigate disagreement, ultimately harming both personal well-being and civic health.
Turkle and Harris examine what distinguishes genuine human empathy from AI's simulated version.
Turkle argues that true empathy arises from lived experience—pain, joy, vulnerability, loss, and mortality. While chatbots can access information about human experiences and perform empathy, they lack embodied experience and never actually feel emotions. Turkle distinguishes between cognitive empathy (understanding feelings) and embodied empathy (feeling alongside others), stressing that machines only possess the former.
Turkle warns that the real danger emerges when people accept AI's simulated empathy as replacement for authentic human bonds. As more people settle for performative empathy, motivation for genuine, invested relationships diminishes, creating a troubling preference for perfect-seeming chatbots over imperfect human care.
Harris raises a scenario of a perfectly tuned humanoid robot versus an imperfect person. Turkle counters that even the most advanced robot lacks genuine vulnerability—it doesn't face illness, death, or care for children. True caring requires the willingness to be hurt or disappointed, a moral substance that comes only from lived experience and consciousness. Accepting performance as real threatens to erode what makes human bonds meaningful.
Turkle recalls that early internet pioneers aimed to use digital technology to enhance real-world community, with the mantra of improving virtual spaces to improve quality of life in the real world. She contrasts this with today's corporate platforms that promote virtual interactions as substitutes for real friendships because real life is perceived as too difficult. Turkle warns that this retreat from reality is disastrous for individuals, communities, child development, and politics, urging people not to abandon the real world when it needs engaged, present humans most.
Turkle warns that constant digital stimulation erodes essential developmental experiences with deep consequences for young people and society.
Turkle explains that brains need downtime during boredom for reflection and development of autobiographical memory and coherent self. Digital overstimulation means children don't experience the essential boredom required for neurological growth, instead feeling anxious without devices as their brains expect constant stimulation.
Turkle observes that young people today lack skill in face-to-face communication, struggling with reading facial expressions, managing unpredictability, and tolerating vulnerability. Screen-raised children prefer the predictability of algorithmic relationships over complex human bonds.
Turkle argues that a generation lacking the ability to converse, empathize, and resolve conflicts in person threatens democracy itself, as these relational skills are fundamental to functioning as prepared citizens in a democratic society.
1-Page Summary
Sherry Turkle and Sam Harris discuss the widespread decline in genuine human connection and empathy, tracing these shifts to the rise of smartphones and social media.
Sherry Turkle observes an increasing trend where people wish to escape vulnerability in conversation by turning to their phones and preferring mediated communication. Since the widespread adoption of smartphones around 2010, people commonly say, “I’d rather text than talk.” They cite real-time conversation as difficult, uncontrollable, and too demanding of empathy and attention. Rather than navigate the unpredictable "rough and tumble" of spontaneous dialogue, individuals opt for asynchronous channels like texting, or even prefer to interact with avatars over real people.
Turkle notes the progression from talking to each other directly, then through machines, and now increasingly to machines themselves. This marks a decline in our willingness and capacity to handle the emotional and social complexities of direct human relationships. Instead of facing the nerves and discomfort of social life, people are staying home and avoiding face-to-face contact.
Turkle confirms that quantitative research supports these observations. She cites psychologist Sarah Conroth’s study and other research showing a measurable drop in all indicators of empathy since smartphones became widespread, with a pronounced decline between 2010 and 2014.
Turkle recalls that early personal computer pioneers aimed to use technology to improve real-world life and strengthen communities. Their motto was to "use the virtual to improve the quality of life in the real."
Turkle contrasts initial utopian visions with the current attitude of tech leaders like Mark Zuckerberg. Zuckerberg, through Meta, suggests that people are too busy with their jobs for substantial real-life friendships and proposes supplementing limited real connections with virtual ones—avatars, chatbots, or programs tuned to individual users. This represents a corporate willingness to replace genuine membership in communities with interactions based entirely on screens and algorithms.
Decline of Human Connection and Empathy in Smartphone-Social Media Era
Sherry Turkle recalls the early days of platforms like Facebook, when technology held the promise of simply connecting people and providing information. She describes how, at first, social media enabled grandmothers to see pictures of babies and classmates to reconnect for reunions—innocent and desirable functions that encouraged the sense that technology was intrinsically good. However, Turkle emphasizes that nothing in technology remains intrinsic for long, as the social, political, and economic environments quickly shape its development.
Once American corporate culture became involved, companies focused on profit started to alter technology’s function. Sam Harris highlights the introduction of banner ads and algorithmic feeds as early corporate tactics. Turkle points out that these corporate structures soon started optimizing platforms for engagement at all costs, prioritizing user attention above all else.
Turkle explains that powerful minds went to work figuring out how to keep people staring at their screens. The strategy they landed on was to provoke anger and then keep users siloed among those who shared their views—a combination that proved extremely effective for maintaining attention. Once people were glued to their screens, companies could serve them ads and harvest their data, turning user engagement directly into profit.
Turkle and Harris agree that, instead of designing technology for social good, experts engineered platforms to stoke anger and tribalism, since those emotions best kept people engaged with content and returning to the site.
This attention economy leaves users anxious and activated, constantly exposed to enraging content and rarely challenged by differing perspectives. Users are siloed into echo chambers, finding comfort only with their own kind and avoiding engagement across social divides.
Turkle argues that this mo ...
How Incentives, Algorithms, and Attention Economy Corrupted Technology
Sherry Turkle and Sam Harris discuss the essential qualities distinguishing genuine human empathy from the simulated empathy displayed by AI chatbots. They examine what it means to truly feel, why machines ultimately fail this test, and highlight the risk of accepting performance as authentic care.
Sherry Turkle argues that empathy arises from the lived arc of a human life. Humans understand pain, illness, joy, desire, dependency, vulnerability, rejection, loss, and mortality through personal experience. The ability to connect comes from this resonance: when two people face each other, they tune in to specific life experiences they both know—the anxieties of childhood, the memories of longing, and the shared reality of loss and fear. True empathy involves not only recognizing these stories in others but genuinely feeling what they evoke.
Turkle explains that chatbots and AI programs may access a wide range of information about human lives, but they only "perform" empathy. Machines can simulate understanding by referencing stories of loss or fear, but, lacking any lived experience, they can't feel these emotions. Their interaction is limited to performance. Turkle makes a distinction between signaling and contagion; for humans, tuning into another person's experience is not simply mimicking but actually feeling alongside them.
Turkle stresses that cognitive empathy—such as reading, analyzing, or reciting what others have written about emotion—is only one component. True empathy requires embodied experience, a lived-and-felt engagement with life's joys and suffering. AI can approximate theory of mind and simulate caring responses, but it never "feels" pain, joy, or connection. Machines lack the equipment—the lived arc, the memories, and anxieties—to truly empathize.
Turkle warns that the real social danger comes when people accept AI's simulated empathy as a replacement for authentic human connection. Social media and chatbots increasingly provide companionship or comfort, but this simulation undermines person-to-person empathy. As more people settle for performative empathy, motivation for authentic, invested human bonds diminishes.
Turkle explores the troubling trend that, for many, the appearance of care from a chatbot becomes "enough." The crisis arises when simulated empathy replaces genuine, messy, imperfect, but fully human care. People might start to prefer chatbots, which seem perfect, over humans, who are vulnerable and flawed.
Both Turkle and Harris emphasize the importance of separating cognitive empathy—the ability to understand others' feelings—from embodied empathy—the felt, lived response. Granting machines equivalence based only on their cognitive simulation is a category mistake. Machines can perform empathy but do not, and cannot, possess it. This dis ...
Genuine Human Empathy vs. Ai's Simulated Empathy: Why Chatbots Can't Truly Care
Sherry Turkle recalls that pioneers of the early internet, such as Lee Felsenstein and users of platforms like The Well, aimed to use digital technology to create community online that would ultimately translate into more and better community offline. The core mantra among these early groups was to improve the virtual in order to improve the quality of life in the real world. Technology was seen as a tool to enhance, not replace, authentic community participation and civic engagement.
Turkle explains that there has been a shift from this early optimism to a present-day reality where corporate platforms now promote virtual and avatar-based interactions as substitutes for real human friendships. Instead of technology serving to enhance reality, the prevailing vision has regressed to one where people retreat into the virtual because real life is perceived ...
From Early Internet Optimism to Today's Screen-Driven Isolation
Sherry Turkle warns that constant digital stimulation is eroding solitude, boredom, and the development of healthy relationships, with deep consequences for young people and society.
Turkle explains that the brain needs downtime for reflection, which occurs during moments of boredom. This downtime is essential for the development of autobiographical memory and a coherent sense of self. Without the opportunity for minds to wander and experience inner peace, neurological growth is stunted. Digital overstimulation means children and youths don’t get the essential boredom required for their brains to develop. Instead, they feel anxious whenever they are without their devices, as their brains have come to expect constant stimulation. This anxiety further hampers neurological growth and deprives them of important developmental possibilities.
Turkle observes that young people today are frightened of relationships and lack skill in face-to-face communication. The loss of solitude and reflection time means children are not practicing reading facial expressions, managing the unpredictability of direct social contact, or tolerating vulnerability necessary for authentic connection. As a result, screen-raised children lack real-world interaction skills, struggle to engage in genuine conversation, and often ...
Consequences: Digital Stimulation Eroding Solitude, Boredom, Healthy Relationships
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