Podcasts > Making Sense with Sam Harris > #492 — The Second Plane, 25 Years Later

#492 — The Second Plane, 25 Years Later

By Waking Up with Sam Harris

In this episode of Making Sense with Sam Harris, Harris reflects on the September 11 attacks twenty-five years later, examining how sincere religious conviction motivated the hijackers and continues to drive jihadist violence today. He argues that Western intellectuals have consistently failed to acknowledge religious ideology as the primary driver of such attacks, instead attributing them to poverty or political grievances despite evidence to the contrary.

Harris explores how the concept of "Islamophobia" conflates legitimate criticism of Islamic doctrine with racism, and discusses the responsibilities of liberal democracies in defending core values like free speech and secularism. He addresses immigration policy through the lens of ideological compatibility with liberal principles, and emphasizes the importance of supporting Muslim reformers and dissidents. The episode also covers how podcast independence through listener subscriptions enables Harris to address controversial subjects without external pressure.

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#492 — The Second Plane, 25 Years Later

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#492 — The Second Plane, 25 Years Later

1-Page Summary

The Enduring Threat of Jihadism and Religious Extremism

Sam Harris examines how the September 11, 2001 attacks revealed the catastrophic potential of sincere religious belief. The second plane's impact on the South Tower proved the attacks were intentional, reflecting a commitment to martyrdom rooted in genuine religious conviction. Harris notes that the hijackers were not impoverished or mentally ill—twelve attended college and all four pilots held FAA credentials. They acted on doctrines of martyrdom, paradise, apostasy, and blasphemy, believing jihad guaranteed spiritual reward.

This ideological continuity persists across decades. Harris argues that the October 7, 2023 attacks in Southern Israel demonstrated the same religious certainty, with perpetrators animated by expectations of paradise rather than despair or political calculation. Despite America's $8 trillion war on terror—including both necessary actions and major errors—Harris maintains that Western policy mistakes don't explain jihadist violence. The ideology persists independently, targeting Jews and "infidels" worldwide, from Paris to Mumbai. Notably, Muslims themselves—dissidents, reformers, and apostates—are often jihadism's primary victims.

Counter-terrorism efforts have succeeded in preventing roughly 100 attacks since 9/11, according to RAND, keeping American deaths from jihadist violence to just a few hundred over 25 years. The threat endures but remains restrained through persistent vigilance.

Western Liberal Intellectual Failures

After 9/11, many Western intellectuals blamed poverty, American foreign policy, or desperation for the attacks, despite evidence contradicting this narrative. The hijackers left behind letters, videos, and instructions explicitly referencing jihad, martyrdom, and paradise. Yet many academics and journalists refused to acknowledge religious ideology as the central motivation, instead treating the attacks as political or economic responses.

This pattern intensified after October 7, 2023. Before Israel responded militarily, over 30 Harvard student groups held Israel exclusively responsible for the massacre of its own civilians. Elite institutions now operate under an identitarian framework classifying conflicts solely as oppressor versus oppressed, leading them to defend jihadist organizations as liberation movements despite these groups' explicit advocacy for genocide.

Harris identifies an "Islamo-Leftism" convergence, where far-left and Islamist actors leverage Western liberalism's openness against its core values. Democratic figures like Abdul El-Sayed have risen politically while associating with anti-Semitic figures, and New York's mayor refuses to condemn slogans like "globalize the intifada." This marks a deepening failure among Western liberals to confront politicized religious extremism.

The "Islamophobia" Problem and Ideological Clarity

Harris argues that "Islamophobia" conflates legitimate critique of Islamic doctrine with xenophobic racism, creating dangerous ideological confusion. Organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center have labeled critics of Islam—including non-white Muslims who speak Arabic, Urdu, or Farsi—as anti-Muslim extremists. Harris distinguishes between Judaism, which has ethnic dimensions making anti-Semitism inherently racist, and Islam, which is missionary with no ethnic prerequisites. Critiquing Islam therefore targets ideas, not ethnicity—a distinction fundamental to liberal discourse.

Harris contends that Islamists weaponize "Islamophobia" claims to stifle debate and gain power. The hijab is portrayed as empowering by some in elite circles, despite being what Harris sees as a tool of gender apartheid. He cites attempts at the UN to criminalize blasphemy and campaigns blaming Salman Rushdie or Charlie Hebdo cartoonists for violence against them, rather than the violent actors themselves.

According to Harris, Islam uniquely compels even non-adherents to observe its restrictions under threat of violence, and elite Western institutions have defended Islamist intolerance in the name of tolerance for decades. He warns that this selective morality undermines fair discourse and inadvertently empowers the far right by suggesting only fascists will confront theocratic encroachment.

Immigration Policy and Liberal Values

Harris argues that immigration policy must safeguard liberal democracy's core principles: tolerance, free speech, political equality for women, secularism, and scientific rationality. Vetting should focus on ideological commitment to these values, not race or ethnicity. Harris emphasizes his "xenophile" appreciation for cultural diversity while insisting that diversity in allegiance to equality and liberty is undesirable. Jihadists and radical Islamists are adversaries with incompatible values, not misunderstood victims.

Harris prioritizes welcoming Muslim dissidents, reformers, apostates, and secularists fleeing theocratic oppression. These individuals, often the first victims of Islamic extremism, possess crucial insights from living under Islamic theocracies. Prioritizing their immigration is both morally imperative and strategically beneficial, strengthening open societies while supporting those actively resisting theocratic oppression.

The Importance of Podcast Independence

Harris's podcast "Making Sense" relies solely on listener subscriptions rather than advertisers or networks, preserving editorial integrity. Most podcasts face conflicts of interest through sponsorship deals, with some recently exposed for secretly accepting payments from political campaigns. Subscription funding frees Harris to pursue potentially career-threatening subjects without fear of losing advertiser support.

Harris notes that even wealthy figures like J.K. Rowling face overwhelming backlash for controversial views. Despite her billion-dollar success, Rowling endured public denouncements from actors who owe their careers to her, revealing how structural incentives enforce self-censorship. Most writers lacking Rowling's stature couldn't survive such pressure. Listener subscriptions enable Harris to confront sensitive topics that powerful interests might otherwise suppress, demonstrating that audiences value independent work enough to invest in honest, free-thinking content.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • In Islamic jihadism, martyrdom means dying in battle for Islam guarantees immediate entry to paradise. Paradise is depicted as a reward with eternal bliss for those who sacrifice themselves for the faith. Apostasy refers to abandoning Islam, punishable by death in extremist interpretations. Blasphemy involves insulting or disrespecting Islam or its prophet, often met with severe penalties by jihadists.
  • "Islamo-Leftism" is a term used to describe an alleged alliance between far-left political groups and Islamist movements. It suggests these groups share a common opposition to Western liberal values and collaborate to advance their agendas. The term originated in European political discourse, particularly in France, as a critique of left-wing tolerance toward Islamist ideologies. Critics argue it conflates diverse political and religious actors under a single negative label.
  • The identitarian framework is a worldview that interprets social and political issues primarily through the lens of group identity, such as race, ethnicity, or religion. It simplifies complex conflicts by categorizing parties strictly as either oppressors or oppressed based on their group membership. This binary approach often overlooks individual circumstances and nuanced motivations. It can lead to uncritical support for groups labeled as oppressed, regardless of their actions or ideologies.
  • The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) is a U.S.-based nonprofit that monitors hate groups and extremists. It publishes lists identifying organizations and individuals it considers promoting hate or extremist views. Critics argue the SPLC sometimes labels legitimate critics of Islam as "anti-Muslim extremists," conflating ideological critique with bigotry. This practice is controversial and seen by some as suppressing free speech on religious ideas.
  • Anti-Semitism targets Jews as an ethnic and religious group, making it a form of racial prejudice. Islam is a religion without a single ethnic identity, practiced by diverse peoples worldwide. Criticism of Islam addresses beliefs and practices, not the ethnicity of its followers. This distinction means opposing ideas in Islam is not inherently racist, unlike anti-Semitism.
  • The hijab is a headscarf worn by some Muslim women as a sign of modesty and religious faith. Critics argue it enforces patriarchal control by restricting women's freedom and visibility, labeling this "gender apartheid." Supporters claim it empowers women by allowing them to express identity and resist objectification. The debate centers on whether the hijab is a personal choice or a symbol of systemic gender inequality.
  • Since the early 2000s, some Muslim-majority countries have pushed the United Nations to adopt resolutions condemning "defamation of religions," aiming to criminalize blasphemy internationally. These efforts sought to make insulting religious beliefs a punishable offense under international law. Critics argue this undermines free speech and targets minority voices, especially those criticizing Islam. The proposals have faced opposition from Western countries defending freedom of expression.
  • Salman Rushdie is an author whose novel "The Satanic Verses" (1988) was deemed blasphemous by many Muslims, leading to a fatwa calling for his death issued by Iran's leader in 1989. Charlie Hebdo is a French satirical magazine known for publishing cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, which sparked violent attacks, including a deadly 2015 shooting at their office. Both cases highlight tensions between free speech and religious offense, with critics blaming the victims for provoking violence. These controversies illustrate the challenges in balancing respect for religious beliefs and protecting freedom of expression.
  • In some Islamic-majority countries, laws based on Islamic principles apply to all residents, regardless of their faith. Non-Muslims may face legal or social penalties for actions considered blasphemous or immoral under Sharia law. This can include restrictions on dress, speech, or behavior enforced by the state or religious authorities. Such enforcement creates pressure on non-adherents to conform to Islamic norms to avoid punishment.
  • "Selective morality" refers to Western institutions applying principles like tolerance inconsistently, defending Islamist intolerance while condemning similar behaviors from other groups. This inconsistency arises from prioritizing cultural sensitivity or political correctness over universal human rights. It creates a double standard that shields extremist behaviors under the guise of respecting religious beliefs. Such selective enforcement undermines fair debate and weakens societal commitment to equal rights.
  • Abdul El-Sayed is an American physician and progressive political figure known for his advocacy on social justice and public health. He has been involved in Democratic politics, including a 2018 run for Michigan governor. Harris mentions him to illustrate how some Western politicians engage with or tolerate figures accused of anti-Semitism or Islamist sympathies. This example supports Harris's argument about a convergence between far-left politics and Islamist agendas within Western liberal circles.
  • The slogan "globalize the intifada" calls for spreading Palestinian uprisings against Israeli control beyond local borders to a worldwide scale. "Intifada" refers to Palestinian resistance movements, often involving protests and violence. The phrase implies encouraging similar resistance tactics globally, which can escalate conflicts and promote violence. Its use in political discourse signals support for militant opposition to Israel, often sparking controversy.
  • Vetting immigrants based on ideological commitment means assessing their beliefs and values, such as support for democracy, tolerance, and human rights, rather than judging them by their racial or ethnic background. This approach aims to ensure newcomers uphold the host country's core principles, promoting social cohesion and security. It contrasts with policies that discriminate based on ethnicity or nationality, which can be unjust and ineffective. Ideological vetting focuses on shared values to protect liberal democratic societies.
  • Cultural diversity refers to the variety of ethnic, linguistic, and traditional backgrounds within a society. Diversity in allegiance to liberal democratic values means commitment to principles like free speech, gender equality, and secular governance. A society can celebrate cultural differences while expecting all members to uphold these shared political and social norms. Without this common allegiance, cultural diversity alone may not sustain a stable liberal democracy.
  • Muslim dissidents, reformers, apostates, and secularists often face severe social ostracism, legal penalties, and threats to their lives in Islamic theocracies. Apostasy—renouncing Islam—is frequently criminalized, sometimes punishable by death. These individuals challenge religious orthodoxy, risking imprisonment, torture, or execution. Their activism is crucial for promoting human rights and religious freedom within oppressive regimes.
  • Harris's podcast "Making Sense" is funded entirely by listener subscriptions, meaning it does not rely on advertisers or corporate sponsors. This model prevents external financial influence that could pressure content changes or censorship. Without advertiser dependence, Harris can discuss controversial topics freely without risking revenue loss. This independence supports editorial integrity and honest discourse.
  • J.K. Rowling faced intense public criticism for expressing views on gender and sex that many considered controversial. This backlash illustrates how powerful social and professional pressures can discourage individuals from speaking openly. Such pressures contribute to self-censorship, where people avoid discussing sensitive topics to protect their careers or reputations. Harris uses this example to highlight the importance of independent platforms that allow free expression without fear of retaliation.

Counterarguments

  • While religious ideology has played a role in motivating some terrorist acts, many scholars and analysts argue that political, social, and historical factors—including foreign intervention, occupation, and perceived injustice—also significantly contribute to the emergence of jihadist violence.
  • The assertion that Western policy mistakes do not explain jihadist violence is contested; numerous studies and intelligence assessments have linked radicalization and anti-Western sentiment to specific foreign policy actions, such as military interventions and support for authoritarian regimes in the Middle East.
  • The framing of "Islamo-Leftism" as a unified or coordinated phenomenon is debated; critics argue that alliances between far-left and Islamist actors are often overstated and that most left-leaning individuals and organizations do not support religious extremism.
  • The claim that Islam uniquely compels non-adherents to observe its restrictions under threat of violence is disputed; blasphemy laws and religiously motivated violence exist in other religious traditions and contexts as well.
  • The distinction between criticism of Islam and anti-Muslim bigotry is recognized by many organizations, including the Southern Poverty Law Center, which has clarified that criticism of religious ideas is not inherently bigoted, but that hate speech and incitement against Muslims as people are.
  • The portrayal of the hijab as solely a tool of gender apartheid is challenged by many Muslim women who choose to wear it as an expression of faith or identity, and who argue that agency and context matter in discussions of religious dress.
  • The idea that elite Western institutions uniformly defend Islamist intolerance is contested; many universities, media outlets, and governments have condemned religious extremism and supported secularism and liberal values.
  • The suggestion that only fascists or the far right are willing to confront theocratic encroachment is disputed; many centrist and liberal voices have spoken out against religious extremism while upholding pluralism and civil liberties.
  • The effectiveness and fairness of ideological vetting in immigration policy is debated, with concerns about subjectivity, potential for discrimination, and the difficulty of accurately assessing beliefs.
  • The claim that most podcasts face conflicts of interest due to sponsorships does not account for the diversity of funding models and editorial standards across the podcasting industry.

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#492 — The Second Plane, 25 Years Later

The Enduring Threat of Jihadism and Religious Extremism

Religious Belief Becomes Violent With Doctrines on Martyrdom, Paradise, Apostasy, and Blasphemy

The attacks of September 11, 2001, exposed how sincerely held religious beliefs can lead to catastrophic violence. When the first plane hit the North Tower, some could explain it as an accident or a random act of madness. The impact of United 175 on the South Tower, however, dispelled those illusions. The second strike demonstrated that this horror was intentional and that the perpetrators fully expected to die, revealing a degree of commitment that could not be chalked up to mere insanity or accident.

This intentionality and willingness to die reflects deep, sincere religious belief. Nineteen men committed mass murder because they were certain they would be rewarded in paradise for it. As Sam Harris notes, the hijackers’ actions were not driven by mental illness or desperation, but by the conviction that martyrdom guaranteed entry to paradise. When jihadists proclaim, "we love death more than the infidels love life," the evidence suggests we should take them at their word. Ideas—in particular, those centered on doctrines of martyrdom, paradise, apostasy, and blasphemy—can be lethally consequential.

The 9/11 hijackers were not impoverished or uneducated. Twelve of the nineteen attended college; all four pilots were FAA-credentialed. These were not desperate men with nothing to lose but individuals who believed jihad was a sacred cause and martyrdom a means to paradise. The ideological continuity is further evidenced by documented letters, videos, and instructions, which explicitly tell jihadists to anticipate paradise and seek martyrdom.

This continuity persists across decades. Harris points out that the perpetrators of October 7, 2023, in Southern Israel acted with the same "religious certainty" seen on 9/11. He describes a militant calling his family after murdering civilians, his voice ecstatic, animated not by despair but by the expectation of religious reward. Harris argues the ideological thread tying September 11th and October 7th is unbroken, with both attacks animated by doctrines treating mass murder as sacrament. Beliefs drive behavior as reliably as any ordinary conviction.

Jihadism Persists As a Threat Regardless of Western Policy or Grievances

After September 11th, the United States launched a $8 trillion war on terror, involving long and costly campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan. While these efforts included both necessary actions and major errors—like the destabilization of Iraq and the ignominious withdrawal from Afghanistan—Harris maintains that these mistakes and the resulting turmoil do not explain, let alone justify, jihadist violence. Policies and grievances do not erase the role of ideology. America's failures in Fallujah, Abu Ghraib, or elsewhere, or even longstanding grievances about Western intervention, cannot account for the persistent reality that organized religious extremism persists independent of Western action.

Jihadist attacks in Paris, Madrid, or Mumbai, Harris argues, bear little relation to American or Isra ...

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The Enduring Threat of Jihadism and Religious Extremism

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • In jihadist ideology, "martyrdom" means dying in the cause of their faith, believed to guarantee spiritual reward. "Paradise" refers to an eternal, blissful afterlife promised to those who die as martyrs. "Apostasy" is the act of abandoning or renouncing Islam, often seen as a grave sin punishable by death. "Blasphemy" involves disrespecting or insulting sacred Islamic beliefs, which jihadists consider a serious offense justifying harsh retaliation.
  • The phrase "we love death more than the infidels love life" originates from a 2004 video by Osama bin Laden, expressing the jihadist valorization of martyrdom. It reflects a mindset that embraces death in battle as preferable and more meaningful than the enemy's desire to preserve life. This slogan has been widely cited to illustrate the extreme commitment and willingness to die among jihadist militants. It underscores the ideological conviction that dying for their cause guarantees spiritual reward.
  • Sam Harris is a well-known American author, philosopher, and neuroscientist. He is recognized for his critiques of religion, especially Islam, and discussions on terrorism and secularism. Harris argues that certain religious doctrines can motivate violent extremism. His views often emphasize the role of ideology over political or social grievances in jihadist violence.
  • Jihadist ideology views mass murder as a "sacrament" due to the belief that such violent acts are a direct path to achieving martyrdom and securing a place in paradise. This belief is deeply rooted in doctrines that emphasize the rewards awaiting those who die in the cause of jihad, including eternal bliss in the afterlife. By considering mass murder as a sacred duty, jihadists believe they are fulfilling a divine mandate and serving a higher purpose beyond earthly existence. This conviction drives their actions and justifies the extreme violence they perpetrate in the name of their religious beliefs.
  • The U.S. military fought intense battles in Fallujah, Iraq, in 2004, causing widespread destruction and civilian casualties. The Abu Ghraib prison scandal in 2003 revealed U.S. soldiers abusing Iraqi detainees, damaging America's global reputation. The Iraq War led to political instability and sectarian violence, contributing to long-term regional chaos. The U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2021 ended a 20-year conflict but left the country under Taliban control, raising concerns about future security.
  • "FAA-credentialed" means the pilots were officially licensed by the Federal Aviation Administration, the U.S. agency regulating civil aviation. This certification requires rigorous training, testing, and adherence to safety standards. It matters because it shows the hijackers had legitimate skills to operate commercial aircraft, not just random or untrained individuals. This underscores their deliberate planning and capability in executing the attacks.
  • Jihadist letters, videos, and instructions serve as propaganda tools to recruit, radicalize, and instruct individuals in extremist ideologies and violent actions. These materials often glorify martyrdom, promote religious justifications for violence, and provide practical guidance on carrying out attacks. They play a significant role in disseminating extremist beliefs, fostering a sense of community among supporters, and inciting individuals to commit acts of terrorism. Such communications can help maintain ideological continuity and inspire individuals to carry out violent acts in the name of jihad.
  • Jihadist violence refers specifically to attacks motivated by extremist religious ideology, often targeting civilians to advance political or religious goals. Other causes of death in the U.S., such as accidents, diseases, or non-terrorist crimes, are unrelated to ideological motives. Statistically, deaths from jihadist terrorism are far fewer compared to these common causes. This distinction highlights that while jihadist attacks are highly publicized, they represent a small fraction of overall mortality.
  • Counter-terrorism efforts involve intelligence gathering, law enforcement, and military actions to prevent attacks. Organizations like RAND conduct independent research and analysis to assess threats and the effectiveness of these efforts. RAND's studies help policymakers understand risks and ...

Counterarguments

  • While religious ideology has played a role in motivating some acts of violence, many scholars argue that political, social, and economic factors—such as foreign occupation, state repression, or lack of opportunity—also significantly contribute to radicalization and terrorism.
  • The assertion that jihadist violence is independent of Western policies is contested; numerous studies and intelligence assessments have found that grievances related to foreign intervention, military actions, and perceived injustices have been cited by attackers as motivations.
  • The focus on Islamic extremism risks overlooking the fact that the vast majority of Muslims worldwide reject violence and that religious texts and doctrines are interpreted in diverse, often peaceful ways.
  • Other forms of extremism, including far-right, nationalist, and non-religious ideologies, have also led to mass violence, suggesting that the phenomenon is not unique to religious belief or Islam.
  • The claim that jihadist ideology is the primary driver of attacks in places like Paris, Madrid, or Mumbai is debated; some analysts point to local contexts, personal grievances, and group dynamics as important contributing factors.
  • The narrative that jihadists are motivated solely by religious conviction may oversimplify the complex psychological, social, and situational factors that influence individuals to commit acts of terrorism.
  • Counter-terrorism successes are significant, but some critics argue tha ...

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#492 — The Second Plane, 25 Years Later

Western Liberal Intellectual Failures

Misdiagnosing 9/11: Blaming Poverty, Policy, Despair Instead of Religious Motivations

After the September 11th attacks, many prominent commentators, academics, and journalists in the West quickly began asserting that the hijackers were driven by poverty, American foreign policy, or a sense of despair. This narrative, however, runs contrary to the actual backgrounds of the hijackers. Twelve of the nineteen had attended college, and all four pilots held FAA credentials, disproving the idea that the attackers were poor or desperate men with nothing to live for. Instead, they were highly motivated by religious ideology.

Evidence From Hijackers' Writings, Correspondence, and Testimony on Religious Commitments

Clear evidence exists from the hijackers themselves as well as the people who trained them. The 9/11 attackers left behind letters, made videos, and included instructions explicitly referencing their motivations. Surveillance, their recovered writings, correspondence, and witness testimony all confirm that they were obsessed with waging jihad against infidels and Jews, viewing martyrdom as a guaranteed path to paradise. The instructions they carried on the day of the attacks told them to anticipate paradise and to ask God to grant them martyrdom.

Failure to Recognize Attacks as Acts of Worship, Not Political or Economic Calculation, By Ignoring Religious Ideology

Despite this clear body of evidence, an entire class of Western liberals, academics, journalists, and intellectuals could not or would not process the fact that the 9/11 atrocities were acts of religious worship rather than acts rooted in politics, economics, or psychological desperation. Even today, many continue to avoid reckoning with the reality of religious ideology as the central motivation behind the attacks.

Response to October 7th, 2023 Shows a More Organized and Formalized Pseudo-Moral Intellectual Confusion

The aftermath of the October 7th, 2023 attacks saw this pattern intensify in speed and coordination. Celebrations and justifications for the attacks occurred almost immediately in cities such as New York and on the campuses of elite American universities. Before Israel had even begun its military response, over 30 student groups at Harvard released statements holding Israel exclusively responsible for the massacre of its own civilians, for the rape, mutilation, and murder of youth at a music festival. The acts were described as "liberation," "resistance to occupation," and "decolonization" rather than murder.

Elite institutions now operate under a pseudo-moral, identitarian framework, where conflicts are understood solely in terms of oppressor and oppressed. Once these roles are assigned, no subsequent facts alter the narrative. As a result, jihadist organizations or theocratic death cults—explicitly committed to genocide and known to commit atrocities, such as throwing gay men off rooftops—are classified as liberation movements at Harvard, Stanford, and Columbia. At universities, these groups are defended as anti-colonial revolutionaries, even when they openly advocate genocide against LGBTQ+ people.

Islamo-Leftism: Far-left and Islamist Convergence Using Liberal Tolerance Against Liberalism

The convergence between far-left and Islamist political actors has become more prevalent, leveraging the openness of Western liberalism against its core values. For l ...

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Western Liberal Intellectual Failures

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The 9/11 hijackers were mostly from middle-class backgrounds, not impoverished or uneducated. Many had received formal education, including college degrees, which contradicts the stereotype of them as desperate or unskilled. Four of the hijackers were trained pilots with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) licenses, showing they had advanced technical skills. Their motivations were driven by extremist religious beliefs rather than economic hardship or lack of opportunity.
  • Jihad in Islam primarily means "struggle" or "striving" and can refer to personal spiritual growth or armed struggle. The hijackers viewed jihad as a religious duty to fight perceived enemies of Islam, believing violent acts would grant them martyrdom and entry to paradise. This interpretation is a radical and militant one, not representative of mainstream Islamic teachings. Their actions were motivated by this extremist belief in violent jihad as a form of worship.
  • In Islamic extremist ideology, martyrdom is viewed as a supreme act of devotion to Allah. It is believed to guarantee the martyr a place in paradise and eternal rewards. Martyrdom is often glorified as a way to achieve spiritual purity and honor in the afterlife. Extremists see martyrdom through violent acts as a means to advance their cause and achieve victory over perceived enemies.
  • The student groups at Harvard are typically campus organizations focused on political activism, cultural identity, or social justice. After the October 7th, 2023 attacks, over 30 such groups issued statements blaming Israel for the violence, framing it as oppression rather than terrorism. These groups often use language of "liberation" and "resistance," aligning with a broader left-wing critique of Israeli policies. Their statements reflect a perspective that prioritizes narratives of colonialism and occupation over security concerns or acts of violence.
  • "Pseudo-moral" refers to a false or insincere display of moral concern that masks underlying biases or agendas. An "identitarian framework" is an analytical approach that interprets social and political issues primarily through the lens of group identities, such as race, religion, or ethnicity. In elite institutions, this means conflicts are simplified into oppressor versus oppressed categories, often ignoring complex realities. This framework can lead to rigid narratives that resist contradictory evidence.
  • Some academic and activist circles use the terms "liberation movements" or "anti-colonial revolutionaries" to describe groups fighting against perceived foreign occupation or oppression. This framing often emphasizes historical grievances and power imbalances rather than the groups' violent or extremist actions. It can lead to overlooking or minimizing these groups' use of terrorism or human rights abuses. This perspective is controversial because it may ignore the full scope of the groups' ideologies and tactics.
  • Certain jihadist and theocratic groups, such as ISIS and the Taliban, have enforced strict interpretations of Islamic law that criminalize homosexuality. These groups have publicly executed LGBTQ+ individuals by methods including throwing them from rooftops, stoning, or hanging. Such acts are intended to instill fear and enforce their religious and social codes. These atrocities have been widely documented by human rights organizations and international media.
  • "Islamo-leftism" refers to a perceived alliance between far-left political groups and Islamist movements based on shared opposition to Western imperialism and capitalism. This convergence often involves prioritizing anti-colonial and anti-Zionist narratives, sometimes overlooking or excusing Islamist extremism. Far-left activists may adopt Islamist causes as part of broader social justice agendas, while Islamist groups gain political support and legitimacy. Critics argue this alliance undermines liberal values by tolerating illiberal religious ideologies.
  • Abdul El-Sayed is a progressive political figure from Michigan known for his left-leaning views and past gubernatorial campaign. Hassan Peiker is a controversial figure associated with Islamist activism and has b ...

Counterarguments

  • While religious ideology was a significant motivator for the 9/11 hijackers, many experts argue that political grievances, including opposition to U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East, also played a role in their radicalization, as indicated in statements by al-Qaeda leadership.
  • The backgrounds of the 9/11 hijackers being relatively privileged does not preclude the influence of broader social, political, or psychological factors in their motivations; radicalization is often a complex process involving multiple elements.
  • Academic and journalistic attempts to analyze root causes of terrorism, including poverty and foreign policy, are not necessarily denials of religious motivation but efforts to understand the full context and prevent future attacks.
  • The characterization of university responses to the October 7th, 2023 attacks as uniformly celebratory or supportive of violence may overlook the diversity of opinions and condemnations expressed by many students, faculty, and administrators.
  • The use of terms like "liberation," "resistance," and "decolonization" by some groups does not necessarily equate to endorsement of violence or atrocities; these terms are often used in broader political discourse about self-determination and historical grievances.
  • Accusations that elite institutions or left-leaning politicians uniformly ignore or excuse religious extremism may overgeneralize and fail to account for the many public condemnations of terrorism and anti-Semitism from across the political spectrum.
  • The concept of " ...

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#492 — The Second Plane, 25 Years Later

The "Islamophobia" Problem and Ideological Clarity

Sam Harris argues that the concept of "Islamophobia" confuses legitimate critique of Islamic doctrine with xenophobic or racist prejudice, resulting in a lack of ideological clarity and dangerous concessions to theocratic demands.

"Islamophobia" Blurs Lines Between Critique of Islamic Doctrine and Xenophobic Racism

Harris points out that mainstream organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center have labeled critics of Islam—including those from non-white, Muslim backgrounds and who speak languages such as Arabic, Urdu, or Farsi—as anti-Muslim extremists or even racists. These individuals end up profiled alongside genuine hate groups, despite their criticism being directed at a set of ideas, not at people. Harris asserts that failing to distinguish between critique of dangerous ideas and animosity toward a community constitutes a capitulation to theocratic forces.

He draws a crucial distinction between Islam and Judaism as religions: Judaism is not a missionary faith and is generally regarded as having ethnic and racial dimensions, since Jews are usually born into the faith rather than converted. Anti-Semitism thus inherently involves elements of racism or ethnic hatred. In contrast, Islam is aggressively missionary, with no ethnic prerequisites for membership. This means critique of Islam targets a system of beliefs, not an ethnicity—a distinction that is foundational to liberal societies. Harris emphasizes that criticizing ideas, including the doctrines and consequences of Islam, is central to liberalism, no different than critiquing communism. In his view, calling such criticism bigotry is a fundamental misunderstanding of what liberal discourse should permit and protect.

Islamists and Apologists Weaponize Islamophobia Claims to Gain Power and Subvert Democracy

Harris argues that Islamist activists and their apologists weaponize the term "Islamophobia" to stifle debate and exert power, even within Western societies. Symbols like the hijab are portrayed as empowering by some in elite circles—even college students at Harvard, Columbia, and Stanford—despite being, in Harris’s view, the most visible method of enforcing gender apartheid across the Muslim world. Islamists are described as exploiting identity politics, grievance narratives, and liberal tolerance not to promote inclusion, but to undermine liberal norms and fortify illiberal practices.

He provides concrete examples, such as attempts by Islamists at the United Nations to criminalize blasphemy, worldwide campaigns to blame Salman Rushdie for the fatwa issued against him, or to fault the cartoonists of Charlie Hebdo and the Danish cartoon controversy for their own violent deaths. Harris claims that in each instance, rather than upholding free speech or condemning violence, significant elements of public discourse have shifted blame onto those who "offended" religious sensibilities, rather than the violent actors.

According to Harris, the reach of Islam goes beyond internal community debate: it uniquely seeks to compel even non-adherents to observe its restrictions. He argues that public figures and citizens alike cannot safely criticize or depict the Prophet Muhammad, even in Wester ...

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The "Islamophobia" Problem and Ideological Clarity

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • The term "Islamophobia" is widely used by international organizations, governments, and scholars to describe a pattern of prejudice, discrimination, and violence targeting Muslims as people, not just criticism of ideas; this is distinct from legitimate critique of Islamic doctrine.
  • Many critics of Islam are not targeted for their ideas alone, but for rhetoric that generalizes or dehumanizes Muslims, which can fuel social hostility and hate crimes.
  • The distinction between criticizing ideas and targeting people is not always clear in practice, as negative portrayals of Islam can contribute to prejudice against Muslims as individuals and communities.
  • Islamophobia is recognized by the United Nations, the European Union, and numerous human rights organizations as a real phenomenon with measurable social harms, including increased hate crimes and discrimination.
  • Criticism of Islam is not uniquely suppressed; other religions and ideologies also receive protection from hate speech and incitement to violence laws in many liberal societies.
  • The hijab and other religious symbols are interpreted in diverse ways by Muslim women themselves, including as expressions of faith, identity, or resistance, and not solely as symbols of oppression.
  • Many Muslim-majority countries and communities are engaged in internal debates and reforms regarding religious doctrine, gender equality, and freedom of expression.
  • The existence of illiberal practices in some Muslim-majority countries does not mean all Muslims or Islamic societies endorse or enforce such practices.
  • ...

Actionables

  • You can practice distinguishing between criticism of ideas and prejudice against people by keeping a personal journal where you record news stories, social media posts, or conversations about religion, then write a brief note on whether each example targets beliefs or individuals, helping you sharpen your ability to spot conflation and respond thoughtfully.
  • A practical way to reinforce open discourse is to set a monthly reminder to read or listen to a viewpoint that critically examines any ideology (including but not limited to Islam), then summarize the main arguments in your own words and note whether the critique addresses ideas or people, building your comfort with fair, idea-focused critici ...

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#492 — The Second Plane, 25 Years Later

Immigration Policy and Liberal Values

Immigration policy in liberal democracies must safeguard the foundational principles of open societies: tolerance of diversity, free speech, political equality for women, secularism, and scientific rationality. Accepting these values means recognizing the necessity to vet entrants’ ideological commitments before allowing them to immigrate. We should not welcome Islamists or jihadists, whose beliefs and intentions conflict with the core tenets that underpin liberal democracy. Radical diversity around these non-negotiable values is undesirable, as it risks undermining the very survival of open, tolerant societies. The imperative is not about racial, cultural, or ethnic prejudice, but about the maintenance and defense of key liberal values for all.

Vet Immigrants for Core Liberal Values Without Xenophobia

Goal: Ensure Newcomers Uphold Principles of a Liberal Society

Vetting immigrants should focus on their commitment to liberal democracy’s core values. This is not an expression of xenophobia or racism. The author explicitly differentiates their views from those who oppose immigration based on skin color or cultural markers—such as aversion to foreign foods or music—affirming instead a genuine appreciation and enjoyment of cultural diversity. This "xenophile" stance welcomes diversity of background and experience, but not diversity in allegiance to equality, secularism, and liberty.

Jihadists and Radical Islamists Are Enemies With Incompatible Values, Not Misunderstood Victims

Jihadists and radical Islamists are not victims with rational grievances to accommodate, but rather adversaries seeking to impose oppressive values incompatible with liberal society. Their ideological goals stand in direct opposition to the freedoms and openness of Western democracies.

Xenophile Appreciation For Diversity Aligns With Vetting That Rejects Theocratic or Anti-Equality Candidates

A love for cultural diversity can coexist with principled exclusion of those whose beliefs threaten equality and secularism. Accepting the music, food, and traditions of immigrants is entirely compatible with insisting they honor the basic principles that make peaceful coexistence possible.

Key Immigration Candidates: Muslim Dissidents, Reformers, Apostates, Secularists Escaping Theocracies

Experts in Jihadism: Insights From Life in Islamic Theocracies

Those best equipped to expose the dangers of radical Islamism are often devout believers in other faiths, former ...

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Immigration Policy and Liberal Values

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Counterarguments

  • The practical implementation of ideological vetting is fraught with challenges, as accurately assessing an individual's beliefs and future behavior is highly unreliable and may lead to unfair exclusions or false positives.
  • Liberal democracies are founded on the principle of freedom of conscience, which includes the right to hold and express a wide range of beliefs, even those that may be unpopular or critical of liberal values, as long as they do not incite violence or break the law.
  • Excluding individuals based on their perceived ideological commitments risks undermining the very liberal values—such as freedom of thought and expression—that the policy aims to protect.
  • Many people from majority-Muslim countries, including those with conservative religious views, can and do integrate successfully into liberal societies without threatening core democratic values.
  • Focusing immigration policy primarily on ideological vetting may distract from more effective integration strategies, such as education, civic engagement, and community support, which have a proven track record of fostering social cohesion.
  • The assumption that only dissidents, reformers, or secularists from Islamic countries can contribute positive ...

Actionables

  • You can intentionally seek out and read memoirs, blogs, or social media posts by secular reformers, apostates, or dissidents from theocratic regimes to better understand their perspectives and share their insights with friends or family when discussing immigration or diversity. This helps amplify firsthand accounts that highlight the value of liberal principles and the dangers of fanaticism, making your conversations more informed and grounded in real experiences.
  • A practical way to support liberal democratic values in your community is to join or donate to local organizations that help refugees and immigrants who have fled theocratic oppression, focusing on those that promote secularism, gender equality, and free speech. By doing this, you directly contribute to the integration and empowerment of individuals who share and reinforce foundational liberal values.
  • ...

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#492 — The Second Plane, 25 Years Later

The Importance of Podcast Independence

Podcast independence ensures honest discussion, shields against conflicts of interest, and supports the freedom to address controversial or career-threatening topics. The structure and values underpinning a subscription-based show distinguish it in a media landscape increasingly entangled with advertisers, networks, and political influence.

Subscription-Based Funding Allows Honest Discussion Without Self-Censorship or Pressure

Most podcasts are supported by advertisers, sponsors, or network affiliations. In contrast, “Making Sense” relies solely on listener subscriptions, a choice made explicitly to preserve the integrity and honesty of its editorial content. The absence of commercial funding means there's no need to consider brand concerns or corporate sensitivities when choosing topics or guests. Even though the host admits there are brands and products he genuinely loves and could recommend, reading ads would undermine credibility and force consideration of their interests, not just those of the listeners.

Many podcasters face unavoidable conflicts of interest—especially when discussing sensitive areas like religion, politics, or matters of identity—because their shows are entangled in sponsorship deals or obligations to networks. Recently, a New York Times article exposed a deeper level of corruption: some podcasters secretly accepted payments from political campaigns to endorse candidates. This led to abrupt and suspicious shifts in coverage, highlighting how such financial pressures corrupt editorial judgment and credibility. The host expresses strong disdain for this practice, underscoring that such compromises are inconceivable for a genuinely independent show.

Subscription-based funding frees the podcast from these entanglements, ensuring the host can pursue conversations—including potentially career-ending subjects—without fear of losing support from advertisers or parent companies. This freedom is central to maintaining the show’s credibility and mission.

Subscription Support Fosters Independence, Enabling the Host to Express Controversial Views Without Fear of Advertiser or Network Retaliation

Podcaster independence, supported by listeners rather than advertisers or institutions, creates the freedom to express and explore even unpopular or controversial views. Even the wealthy and famous, the host notes, operate under the constant threat of reputational or professional harm should they fall afoul of prevailing moral panics or social controversies. The podcast host shares that many prominent individuals confide privately that, contrary to expectations, they do not feel able to say what they believe in public. Despite their resources, they remain fearful of damaging their relationships with media platforms or institutions that could abruptly end their careers.

J.K. Rowling’s recent experience serves as a striking example. Despite earning over a billion dollars from her books and spawning billion-dollar film franchises and theme parks, Rowling faced overwhelming backlash for questioning the removal of "woman" from public discourse. She withstood this due to her extraordinary success and unique platform, but the intensity of the response—including public denouncements from actors who owe their careers to her, like Emma Watson and Daniel Radcliffe—reveals the extent to which structural incentives enforce self-censorship. These actors, regardless of their personal beliefs, publicly distanced themselves for fear of professional reprisal. Most writers lacking Rowling’s stature could not have survived such backlash; their works would have been unpublished, and their careers destroyed. This ...

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Clarifications

  • Podcast independence means a podcast operates without influence from advertisers, sponsors, or networks. This independence allows creators to discuss topics honestly without external pressure to avoid controversy. It protects the podcast from conflicts of interest that can bias content. Ultimately, it helps maintain trust and credibility with listeners.
  • Subscription-based funding means listeners pay directly to support the podcast, usually through monthly fees. Advertiser or sponsor funding involves companies paying the podcast to promote their products or services. This creates potential conflicts, as podcasters may avoid topics that upset sponsors. Subscription funding removes this pressure, allowing more editorial freedom.
  • Conflicts of interest in media occur when financial or organizational ties influence content, compromising impartiality. Sponsorships and networks may pressure creators to avoid topics that could upset advertisers or partners. This can lead to self-censorship or biased coverage favoring sponsors' interests. Such conflicts undermine trust and the integrity of the information presented.
  • Some podcasters secretly received money from political campaigns to promote candidates without disclosure. This practice misleads listeners by presenting paid endorsements as genuine opinions. It undermines trust and damages the credibility of the podcast and the broader media. Such undisclosed payments create conflicts of interest that compromise honest discussion.
  • "Career-ending subjects" refer to topics that, if publicly discussed or supported, can cause severe professional consequences, such as job loss or blacklisting. These often include controversial issues like political dissent, criticism of powerful groups, or challenging widely accepted social norms. Discussing such subjects can provoke backlash from employers, sponsors, or the public, leading to damaged reputations and halted career opportunities. The term highlights the risk of severe negative impact on one's professional life due to expressing certain views.
  • "Prevailing moral panics or social controversies" refer to widespread public fears or intense debates about issues perceived as threats to societal values or norms. These phenomena often lead to heightened emotions, media attention, and pressure to conform to dominant viewpoints. They influence public discourse by discouraging dissenting opinions and promoting self-censorship to avoid social or professional backlash. This dynamic shapes what topics are considered acceptable to discuss openly.
  • J.K. Rowling faced intense public backlash after expressing views on gender identity that many considered controversial or offensive. This backlash included widespread criticism from fans, media, and some actors from the Harry Potter franchise. The example illustrates how even highly successful individuals can face severe professional and social consequences for expressing dissenting opinions. It highlights the broader issue of self-censorship driven by fear of reputational damage.
  • Emma Watson and Daniel Radcliffe are actors who played key roles in the film adaptations of J.K. Rowling’s "Harry Potter" series. Their public denouncements of Rowling’s views carry weight because they owe much of their fame and career success to her work. Their reactions illustrate how individuals connected to powerful figures may distance themselves to avoid professional backlash. This dynamic highlights the pressure to conform to prevailing social opinions, even among those closely linked to influential creators.
  • Institutional incentives are rewards or punishments created by organizations, such as employers or media platforms, that influence behavior. They encourage individuals to conform to accepted norms to maintain their status, income, or opportunities. Self-censorship occurs when people avoid expressing certain views to prevent negative consequences from these institutions. This dynamic limits open discussi ...

Counterarguments

  • Subscription-based funding can create its own pressures, as hosts may feel compelled to cater to the preferences and biases of their paying audience, potentially leading to echo chambers or self-censorship to avoid subscriber loss.
  • Listener-supported models may limit access to important conversations for those unable or unwilling to pay, potentially reducing the diversity of the audience and the broader societal impact of the content.
  • Financial dependence on subscribers does not inherently guarantee objectivity or honesty; hosts may still have personal biases or agendas that influence editorial decisions.
  • Not all advertiser-supported podcasts experience significant conflicts of interest; some maintain clear boundaries between editorial content and sponsorship, and many listeners are capable of distinguishing between ads and content.
  • The risk of reputational or professional harm for expressing controversial views exists regardless of funding model, as public backlash can affect subscriber-supported creators as well.
  • The example of J.K. Rowling may not be fully analogous to most pod ...

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