In this episode of Making Sense with Sam Harris, Harris and guest James Kirchick examine the Democratic Socialists of America's platform and its implications for the Democratic Party. They argue that the DSA advances positions that extend far beyond traditional democratic socialism, including calls to abolish fundamental government institutions and embrace authoritarian foreign regimes. The conversation explores why Democratic politicians associated with these views create electoral vulnerabilities for the party.
Harris and Kirchick also discuss the alliance between far-left movements and Islamist groups through what they term "third-worldism," examining how this ideology has influenced progressive discourse on issues ranging from Israel to identity politics. The episode addresses concerns about anti-Semitism in progressive circles and analyzes specific Democratic politicians whose positions they view as problematic. Throughout, they explore why mainstream Democrats struggle to distance themselves from radical elements within their coalition.

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Sam Harris and James Kirchick critique the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) for advancing an extreme agenda that poses serious political risks for the Democratic Party.
Harris outlines the DSA platform as calling for abolishing the presidency, Supreme Court, Senate, Pentagon, police, prisons, border enforcement, capitalism, and private property itself. He argues this goes far beyond the Western European welfare-state model many assume democratic socialists support. Kirchick highlights the DSA's foreign policy as evidence of radicalism, noting the organization endorses authoritarian regimes like North Korea and Cuba. He observes that the DSA's leadership openly identifies as Marxist, with an internal structure more aligned with communism than democratic socialism.
Harris and Kirchick discuss Ron Mamdani, New York's mayor and a "proud DSA member," criticizing his introduction of government-sponsored grocery stores that could undermine private businesses. Harris expresses concern that Democratic leaders are not sufficiently distancing themselves from politicians like Mamdani, describing this as a "political suicide pact" for the party. He warns that voters faced with a choice between "communism and fascism" will choose the latter, potentially enabling right-wing authoritarian leaders by 2028.
Kirchick draws parallels to Cold War-era liberal sympathy for far-left movements, describing how many liberals refused to see communism's dangers. He argues that this residual sympathy persists, with many on the left admiring radical figures while the DSA occupies "the cool kids table," making it difficult for centrists to criticize them without risking ostracism.
Kirchick suggests liberal open-mindedness creates a vulnerability, describing an "asymmetric obligation" where center-left figures feel compelled to welcome anyone to their left while harshly criticizing the right. This prevents the left from policing boundaries within their coalition, even as Republicans have publicly confronted Trump and MAGA influence. He laments that Democratic leaders have failed to promote a robust liberalism that defends democratic values and opposes terrorism, even from groups positioned on the left.
Harris and Kirchick discuss the alliance between far-left and Islamist movements through "third-worldism." Kirchick explains that after the Soviet Union's collapse, the left replaced the proletariat with the Ummah—the global Muslim community—as representatives of the oppressed. He defines third-worldism as the belief that the industrialized West is the root of global evil, with politics becoming revenge for the oppressed developing world.
Kirchick observes this "Islamo-communism" has gained more traction in Europe than the U.S., noting France's main left-wing party is essentially Islamo-communist. He attributes this advancement to academics in Middle Eastern Studies departments and Qatari-funded institutes who obscure their positions' implications. Harris and Kirchick discuss how Islamic practices like the hijab are reframed in Western progressive discourse as symbols of empowerment rather than patriarchal control, facilitating the far-left and Islamist alliance.
Harris and Kirchick assert that contemporary progressive movements have become sources of anti-Semitism. Kirchick notes that intersectional progressive politics often exclude Jews from legitimate claims of oppression, rendering Jewish suffering irrelevant within third-worldist paradigms. Harris explains that slogans like "globalize the intifada" are deliberately ambiguous but understood to mean internationalizing violent campaigns targeting Jews.
Harris highlights Israel's unique status at the UN, noting it has received more resolutions than all other states combined. He attributes this not to uniquely egregious conduct but to strategic bloc voting by Arab states and developing nations. This ongoing demonization, they argue, is motivated less by genuine moral outrage than by anti-Western and anti-Jewish political agendas.
Kirchick describes Mamdani as "the most sinister of the bunch" due to his charisma and moderate presentation, which makes him more palatable and therefore more dangerous. He emphasizes that Mamdani implements changes slowly and incrementally as part of a long-term strategy, working gradually to transform property laws and introduce government programs while maintaining democratic appearances.
Harris highlights candidates like El-Sayed, whose positions and associations with Islamist organizations are more overtly problematic. When a Hezbollah sympathizer attempted to attack a Jewish daycare, El-Sayed attributed the cause to Israel's actions rather than condemning the act. Harris warns that Democratic leadership's tolerance of such positions threatens the party nationally, potentially presenting voters with an unappealing choice that could result in significant electoral vulnerabilities.
1-Page Summary
Sam Harris and James Kirchick critique the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) for advancing an uncompromising and extreme agenda, warning that its influence on Democratic politicians presents serious political risks for the party.
Sam Harris outlines the DSA platform as calling for abolishing the presidency, the Supreme Court, the Senate, the Pentagon, the police, prisons, border enforcement, all debt, capitalism, and private property itself. He notes the DSA presents these positions unapologetically, amounting to what he characterizes as a "communist manifesto." Harris argues that the DSA’s vision goes far beyond the Western European welfare-state model that many people assume democratic socialists support. Instead, he says it seeks the outright eradication of capitalism and private property, and is not ambiguous about these intentions.
James Kirchick highlights the DSA’s foreign policy as evidence of its radicalism, noting that the organization endorses and offers solidarity to authoritarian regimes such as North Korea and Cuba. He considers this support for what he calls the "most despicable communist dictatorships on earth" to be an indicator that the DSA fundamentally diverges from mainstream democratic values.
Kirchick further observes that the DSA’s leadership is openly composed of declared Marxists. He notes that this goes beyond mere red-baiting, as the organization's internal leadership structure (likened to a "Politburo") and self-identification with Marxism indicate a platform and power base more aligned with communism than with democratic socialism.
Harris and Kirchick discuss Ron Mamdani, the mayor of New York, as a prominent, charismatic figure in the Democratic Party who openly identifies as a "proud DSA member." Kirchick criticizes Mamdani's move to introduce government-sponsored grocery stores in New York, arguing that these efforts could undermine private grocery businesses and constitute an impractical "boondoggle." He suggests that taxpayers will ultimately subsidize failing private stores, turning the initiative into a long-term strategy that structurally challenges capitalism.
Harris express ...
The Dsa's Radical Platform and Its Impact on Democrats
James Kirchick draws a parallel between contemporary Democratic and liberal tendencies and those of the Cold War era. He recalls that many liberals and leftists in mid-20th-century America refused to see the dangers of communism, referencing the Progressive Party and its 1948 presidential candidate, Henry Wallace. While not openly pro-communist, the party was described as being controlled by the Communist Party and filled with “fellow travelers”—people ideologically sympathetic to communism, if not actual members.
This sympathy led to the popularization of phrases such as “liberals in a hurry,” implying that liberals and communists shared ultimate goals, though the far left was prepared to be more radical and aggressive in pursuit. Kirchick believes this residual sympathy persists today, asserting that many on the left still feel a sense of admiration for more radical figures, wishing they could be as outspoken or forceful as those on the far left even while engaging in pragmatic politics.
Kirchick also highlights a liberal admiration for the far left that pressures centrists not to criticize radicals. He describes the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) as occupying “the cool kids table,” making it difficult for center-left commentators and politicians to challenge their positions without risking ostracism or loss of credibility among peers. Intellectuals and journalists, he notes, often fear not being seen as "cool," which strengthens the pressure to avoid criticizing or even making fun of more radical left-wing groups.
Kirchick suggests that liberal open-mindedness creates a particular vulnerability. He describes an “asymmetric obligation” in which those on the center-left feel compelled to be welcoming to anyone positioned to their left, no matter how extreme their views, while reserving harsh criticism for those on the right. This results in an inability to police boundaries within their own political coalition, even as Republicans and conservatives have publicly and fiercely debated and confronted the influence of Trump and the MAGA movement within their party.
This liberal tendency to tolerate a broader range of ideological allies leads to the reluctance to reject radicals outrigh ...
Why Democrats Can't Distance From Radical Left and Role of Open-Mindedness
Sam Harris and James Kirchick discuss the increasing alliance between far-left movements and Islamist movements, particularly through the ideological framework known as "third-worldism."
James Kirchick explains that during the Cold War, communism maintained a strict hostility toward religion and specifically suppressed Islamic practices in places like Central Asia. With the Soviet Union's collapse, the left lost its global proletariat, the class they championed as the engine of revolution. In the absence of this group, left-wing intellectuals substituted the proletariat with the Ummah— the global Muslim community — particularly as a new representation of the oppressed. This realignment between the post-Cold War left and Islamists has been underway since the 1990s.
Kirchick defines third-worldism as the belief that the industrialized West is the root of global evil and suffering. According to this view, Western countries are to blame for most problems worldwide, and politics should then become a form of revenge for the oppressed of the developing world—especially Muslims in the Ummah, but also other marginalized groups seen as interconnected through intersectionality. Notably, Jews are excluded from this paradigm. This worldview motivates alliances that seek retribution or the reversal of Western hegemony.
Kirchick observes that this alliance, or "Islamo-communism," has gained much more traction in Britain and mainland Europe than in the United States. He notes that France’s main left-wing party, La France Insoumise, is essentially an Islamo-communist party. The UK’s Labour Party showed similar tendencies, especially under Jeremy Corbyn. Kirchick expresses hope that the U.S. will avoid repeating this pattern due to its smaller populations of both Islamic extremists and radical left-wing intellectuals, making such alliances less likely to take root.
Kirchick attributes the advancement of Islamo-leftism in the West to academics and area experts, especially within Middle Eastern Studies departments and Qatari-funded institutes. He criticizes these professors for deliberately obscuring the implications of their positions, even as they are fully aware of the societies they study. He singles them out as the real drivers of Islamo-gauchisme—Islamo-leftism—either motivated by Islamist ideology or traditional leftist dogma.
Far-left and Islamist Alliance Through "Third-Worldism"
Discussions within progressive spaces increasingly blur the lines between legitimate criticism of Israel and expressions of anti-Semitism. Participants like Sam Harris and James Kirchick highlight how certain forms of anti-imperialist and decolonization rhetoric serve as cover for anti-Jewish sentiments, while established coalitions at the international level foster Israel’s pariah status for reasons unconnected to genuine moral considerations.
Harris and Kirchick assert that contemporary progressive movements, including organizations like the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) and allied groups, have become sources of anti-Semitism. Kirchick notes that intersectional progressive politics, which attempt to unite oppressed groups into a broader coalition against Western power, often exclude Jews from legitimate claims of oppression. He observes that Jewish suffering is rendered illegitimate within third-worldist paradigms, making Jewish concerns invisible or irrelevant to these movements.
Harris further explains that slogans such as "globalize the intifada" are deliberately ambiguous for public relations, but are well-understood by informed participants to mean internationalizing violent campaigns targeting Jews. Harris points out that academics like Mahmood Mamdani, with deep subject knowledge, choose their words carefully to evade direct accountability for fostering anti-Semitism while still signaling support for extremist goals.
Sam Harris highlights the unique and disproportionate status Israel holds at the United Nations, noting that "the UN has passed more resolutions against Israel than all other states combined, including Iran and Russia and China and No ...
Anti-Semitism and Discourse Around Israel Within Progressive Circles
The discussion addresses rising concerns about certain Democratic politicians who embody ideologies or take positions that pose risks both to their party's ethical foundations and to their prospects in future elections.
Kirchick draws attention to politicians like Mamdani, who he describes as "the most sinister of the bunch" due to his charisma, charm, and agreeable demeanor. Unlike more radical activists who "scream and yell," Mamdani presents his beliefs in a moderate and affable way, making him much more palatable and, therefore, more dangerous in terms of influence. Kirchick emphasizes Mamdani's cleverness, explaining that as a DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) affiliate, he's committed to their entire platform but implements changes slowly and incrementally.
For instance, seven or eight months into office, Mamdani avoids drastic actions that could provoke backlash, like firing a well-regarded police commissioner, choosing instead to work gradually—adjusting property and tax laws, and introducing government-sponsored grocery stores—as part of a long-term strategy. Kirchick asserts that Mamdani's strategic and evasive approach reveals deeper ideological commitments, positing that, if unconstrained by American democratic norms, he would pursue revolutionary transformations similar to those seen with third-worldist political leaders elsewhere.
By contrast, Harris highlights Democratic candidates such as El-Sayed, whose positions and associations are more overtly problematic. El-Sayed, described as a "religious bully," makes little attempt to obscure his stances and maintains close ties to figures and organizations Harris deems concerning, such as Hassan Peiker and the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), which Harris labels as Islamist front groups. This reflects Harris’s broader anxieties about the normalization of Islamist-sympathetic politics within the Democratic Party.
A concrete example centers on El-Sayed's response to a foiled attack by a Hezbollah sympathizer w ...
Democratic Politicians: Problematic Ideologies and Electoral Risks
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