#433 — How Did We Get Here?
In this episode of Making Sense, Sam Harris and Dan Carlin explore the evolution of podcasting and Carlin's content creation philosophy. Carlin discusses his approach to producing evergreen content and his decision to maintain an audio-only format, while sharing insights from his background as a radio host and his experience positioning himself as an independent voice in political commentary.
The conversation examines significant changes in U.S. politics, focusing on the expansion of presidential power over recent decades and its implications for democratic norms. Harris and Carlin analyze how both major political parties have contributed to this shift, discussing the role of partisan dynamics in preventing reform and drawing parallels between current political tensions and historical periods of upheaval.
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1-Page Summary
Podcasting Evolution and Carlin's Content Creation Approach
Sam Harris celebrates Dan Carlin as one of podcasting's pioneers, praising his commitment to quality over quantity. Carlin explains that he focuses on creating evergreen content that maintains its relevance over time, similar to books. This approach sometimes leads to months-long waits between episodes, but allows him to produce what Harris calls "true masterpieces." Despite industry trends, Carlin has deliberately avoided video formats, expressing concern that visual elements might detract from his distinctive audio delivery style.
Carlin's Political Views and Commentary
Drawing from his experience as a radio talk show host, Carlin describes himself as having unique political standings that often conflicted with conventional conservative programming. He successfully marketed himself as an independent voice, resonating with listeners who didn't fit into traditional political categories, though this connection somewhat diminished as political divisions deepened.
Growth of Presidential Power and Concerns
Carlin raises significant concerns about the expansion of executive power in the United States, explaining that this issue has developed over decades with both political parties contributing to the problem. He points to historical examples, such as George W. Bush's use of signing statements, as evidence of growing presidential authority. According to Carlin, politicians are disincentivized from addressing this issue due to partisan dynamics and the profitable nature of political division.
Current Political Climate and Polarization in the US
Carlin views the current political situation as the most dangerous he's witnessed in his lifetime, drawing parallels to historical upheavals of the 1930s and 1940s. Sam Harris supports this concern, particularly noting how the Trump administration demonstrated that political norms could be violated with minimal consequences. Together, they suggest a growing desensitization to breaches of democratic norms and the continued expansion of executive power.
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Clarifications
- Dan Carlin's distinctive audio delivery style is characterized by his immersive storytelling, dramatic narration, and in-depth exploration of historical events. He often uses vivid language and detailed descriptions to engage listeners and create a cinematic experience through audio alone. Carlin's approach involves minimal use of background music or sound effects, relying primarily on his voice to captivate his audience. This style has been praised for its ability to transport listeners into the past and make complex historical topics accessible and engaging.
- Dan Carlin's unique political standings conflicted with conventional conservative programming due to his independent voice and views that did not align neatly with traditional political categories. As a former radio talk show host, Carlin cultivated a following by offering perspectives that diverged from mainstream conservative ideologies, resonating with listeners seeking alternative viewpoints. This positioning allowed Carlin to carve out a distinct space in the media landscape, appealing to audiences looking for perspectives outside the typical conservative narrative. Carlin's ability to challenge established norms within conservative programming contributed to his reputation as a thought-provoking and unconventional commentator.
- Carlin is worried about the increasing authority wielded by the President of the United States, which has been expanding over many years. He highlights examples like George W. Bush's use of signing statements as evidence of this trend. Carlin believes that both major political parties have contributed to this issue, and he suggests that partisan dynamics and the profitability of political division hinder efforts to address it.
- George W. Bush's use of signing statements involved issuing statements when signing bills into law, outlining his interpretation of the legislation's scope and how it should be enforced. This practice allowed Bush to assert his understanding of the law's provisions, sometimes diverging from Congress's intent. Critics argued that this expanded presidential power by potentially influencing how laws were implemented despite Congress's original intentions. Bush's frequent use of signing statements raised concerns about the balance of power between the executive and legislative branches of government.
- Politicians may avoid addressing the issue of executive power due to partisan dynamics because taking action could be seen as benefiting the opposing party. This can lead to a reluctance to challenge or limit the powers of the executive branch, as it may be perceived as weakening their own party's position. The fear of political backlash or losing support from their party base can further discourage politicians from tackling this issue. Additionally, in a highly polarized political environment, bipartisan cooperation on such matters is often difficult to achieve.
- Carlin views the current political climate in the US as the most dangerous in his lifetime due to what he perceives as a significant erosion of democratic norms and an expansion of executive power. He draws parallels to historical periods of upheaval, expressing concern over the normalization of breaches in political norms, as seen during the Trump administration. Carlin and Harris suggest that the current political environment reflects a growing desensitization to threats against democratic principles, contributing to their assessment of the situation as particularly perilous.
- The parallels drawn to historical upheavals of the 1930s and 1940s likely reference turbulent periods like the Great Depression and World War II. These decades were marked by significant global events, economic challenges, and political shifts that reshaped societies. Comparing the current political climate to this era suggests a perception of heightened instability, polarization, and potential threats to democratic norms. The mention of this historical context underscores the seriousness of the current situation and the concerns raised by individuals like Dan Carlin and Sam Harris.
- Desensitization to breaches of democratic norms refers to a phenomenon where repeated violations of established democratic principles lead to a normalization of such behavior. Over time, people may become less shocked or outraged by actions that undermine democratic processes, weakening the societal response to threats against democratic values. This desensitization can erode the public's ability to recognize and resist authoritarian tendencies or abuses of power within a democratic system. It highlights a concerning trend where the erosion of democratic norms goes unchecked due to a diminishing sense of alarm or urgency among the populace.
- During the Trump administration, there were instances where actions or statements that traditionally would have faced significant backlash or consequences did not result in the expected level of accountability or repercussions. This lack of consequences for certain behaviors led to concerns about the erosion of established political norms and standards of conduct in the U.S. political landscape. The perceived normalization of behavior that would have been considered unacceptable in previous administrations contributed to a sense of desensitization among the public and political observers. This dynamic raised alarms about the potential long-term implications for the functioning of American democracy and the balance of power between branches of government.
Counterarguments
- While Dan Carlin is praised for focusing on evergreen content, one could argue that more frequent updates could keep the audience more engaged and help maintain relevance in fast-paced media cycles.
- Carlin's avoidance of video formats might limit his audience reach, as some people prefer visual content and platforms like YouTube for consuming podcasts.
- Marketing oneself as an independent voice is commendable, but it can also be challenging to sustain as political landscapes and public expectations shift.
- The concern about the expansion of executive power is valid, but one might argue that the system of checks and balances in the US is robust and can correct such expansions over time.
- While both parties may contribute to the expansion of presidential authority, some could argue that this is a necessary adaptation to a complex and changing world, requiring more decisive and rapid executive action.
- Drawing parallels to historical upheavals could be seen as an overstatement, as every era has unique circumstances and the current political climate might not be directly comparable to the 1930s and 1940s.
- The suggestion of a growing desensitization to breaches of democratic norms could be countered by pointing out increased public engagement and activism in response to such breaches.
- The assertion that the Trump administration demonstrated that political norms could be violated with minimal consequences might be challenged by noting the various legal and political challenges that followed such violations.
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Podcasting Evolution and Carlin's Content Creation Approach
Sam Harris celebrates Dan Carlin as a pioneering figure in the world of podcasting and as possibly the best podcaster to date.
Carlin's Reputation as a Pioneering and Exceptional Podcaster
Carlin Prioritizes Quality, Creating In-depth Podcasts Over Frequent Episodes
Carlin's approach to podcasting is described by Harris as prioritizing perfection over frequency. Several Hardcore History series are acclaimed as "true masterpieces." Carlin releases episodes infrequently, with Harris recalling a six-month wait for the next installment of a Hardcore History episode. This demonstrates Carlin's focus on quality.
Dan Carlin himself explains that he focuses on creating evergreen content that maintains its relevance, similar to the way books do. He believes that listeners who discover the content later will value its quality more than the time it took to produce it. His goal is to deliver a product that serves not only the current audience but those in the future as well.
Having the luxury of not rushing to satisfy an audience's immediate gratification or to generate ad revenue allows Carlin to prioritize producing high-quality work without the pressures often associated with content product ...
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Podcasting Evolution and Carlin's Content Creation Approach
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Dan Carlin is a prominent figure in podcasting known for his show "Hardcore History." He is recognized for his in-depth and meticulously researched historical narratives. Carlin's approach prioritizes quality over quantity, with a focus on creating timeless content. His resistance to incorporating video in his podcasts stems from a desire to maintain the integrity of the audio experience.
- Dan Carlin's Hardcore History series is known for its in-depth exploration of historical events, often spanning multiple episodes. Carlin's storytelling style is engaging and immersive, drawing listeners into the past with vivid details and analysis. Each episode can range from several hours to even longer, allowing for a comprehensive examination of the chosen topic. Hardcore History episodes are released infrequently but are highly anticipated due to their quality and depth.
- "Evergreen content" in podcasting refers to episodes that remain relevant and valuable to listeners over time, similar to how timeless books retain their significance. These episodes are not tied to current events or trends, ensuring they can be enjoyed by new listeners even if discovered at a later date. The focus is on creating content with enduring quality and relevance, aiming for longevity and continued audience engagement. By producing evergreen content, podcasters like Dan Carlin prioritize creating valuable and ...
Counterarguments
- While Dan Carlin's focus on quality is commendable, it could be argued that a more frequent release schedule might keep listeners more engaged and help maintain a consistent audience.
- The acclaim of Carlin's Hardcore History as "true masterpieces" is subjective, and some listeners might prefer a different style or approach to podcasting that is less in-depth but more frequent.
- Carlin's evergreen content strategy, while valuable for longevity, might not cater to listeners who prefer timely and topical content that aligns with current events.
- The lack of immediate gratification in Carlin's approach could be seen as a missed opportunity to capitalize on trending topics and build a larger audience in the short term.
- Carlin's resistance to video might limit the accessibilit ...
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Carlin's Political Views and Commentary
Carlin's "Political Party of one" and Independent Approach
Carlin shares his experiences from his time as a radio talk show host, noting that he often did not align with the conservative daytime lineup. His contrasting viewpoints led to frequent on-air conflicts, through which he gained valuable insights from his listeners, helping him to better understand their arguments and concerns.
Carlin's Branding and Marketing of Political Views as Strengths
Carlin capitalized on his unique political standing, branding and marketing himself as an independent with an appeal that did ...
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Carlin's Political Views and Commentary
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Counterarguments
- Carlin's contrasting viewpoints might have been more about playing devil's advocate than genuine belief, which could question the authenticity of his stance.
- Gaining insights from listeners does not necessarily mean that Carlin's views were well-informed or that he truly understood the complexities of the issues discussed.
- Branding and marketing oneself as an independent could be seen as a strategic move to appeal to a broader audience rather than a reflection of deeply held political convictions.
- The resonance of Carlin's approach with a new generation of listeners might have been due to a novelty factor that wore off as the political landscape evolved.
- The sense of hope provided by Carlin's branding could be perceived as temporary or superfici ...
Actionables
- You can embrace diverse perspectives by actively seeking out debates and discussions on social media platforms that challenge your current viewpoints. Start by following or joining groups that represent a broad spectrum of opinions and engage in conversations with an open mind. This will not only expose you to different ideas but also refine your own arguments and beliefs through constructive dialogue.
- Develop your personal brand by identifying what makes your perspective unique and sharing it through a blog or vlog. Reflect on your experiences and viewpoints that set you apart, then create content that showcases this uniqueness. Share your blog or vlog with friends and on social media to attract like-minded individuals and those curious about your perspective.
- Foster hope and positivity in your community by start ...
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Growth of Presidential Power and Concerns
Dan Carlin raises alarms about the expansion of executive power in the United States and the associated erosion of constitutional checks and balances.
Carlin's Concerns About Executive Power Expansion and Weakening Checks and Balances
Carlin discusses that the issues with the growth of presidential power and the erosion of checks and balances have been decades in the making and are not the result of actions by any single political party or part of the government. He describes the political problems facing the country as a chain reaction like dominoes tumbling over time.
Carlin: Issues Decades in Making, Both Parties at Fault
Throughout history, there has been questioning about the power of the executive branch and how to check a powerful president. Carlin points to the founding documents and debates that delved into the potential role of a chief executive and actions to be taken if such a leader acted unwisely or against the interests of the state.
Despite concerns in the past, such as the talk of an "Imperial presidency" in the 1970s, Carlin notes that the powers held by the presidency now are much stronger. The lack of public discussion about the systemic issues related to presidential power is a significant problem, Carlin implies, as it leads to an inability to identify and resolve them.
Carlin criticizes political hypocrisy surrounding executive actions such as executive orders and signing statements. He emphasizes that both major political parties are culpable for contributing to the strengthening of executive powers over time. For instance, he refers to George W. Bush's use of signing statements to sidestep parts of legislation he disagreed with—actions which Carlin sees as contributing to the overexpansion of executive authority and the weakening of intended governmental checks and balances.
Carlin also contrasts past presidents, who individually might have taken constitutionally extreme actions, with the potential scenario in which a future president might aggregate these extreme measures. This could potentially lead to a dangerous and unprecedented con ...
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Growth of Presidential Power and Concerns
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- The term "Imperial presidency" describes a situation where the President of the United States wields significant power and influence, sometimes beyond what is intended by the Constitution. Signing statements are written comments issued by the President at the time of signing legislation into law, outlining the President's interpretation of the law's intent and how it should be enforced. These statements can sometimes be controversial as they may be seen as a way for the President to influence the implementation of the law or express disagreement with certain provisions.
- Partisanship and political division in the United States often lead to a situation where politicians prioritize their party's interests over constitutional checks and balances. This can result in a reluctance to limit presidential power, as doing so may be seen as weakening their own party's ...
Counterarguments
- The expansion of presidential power can sometimes be a necessary response to the complexities of modern governance and crises that require swift action.
- Checks and balances still function, as evidenced by judicial review of executive actions and congressional oversight, which can and do limit presidential power.
- The use of executive orders and signing statements, while potentially problematic, can also be viewed as tools for presidents to fulfill their administrative duties and address issues that Congress may be too divided to act upon.
- The concentration of power in the executive branch might reflect the electorate's desire for more decisive and unified leadership, which can be seen as a democratic response to perceived inefficiencies in Congress.
- The growth of presidential power is not necessarily a sign of constitutional erosion but could be interpreted as an evolution of the office in line with the practical needs of the nation.
- Political incentives may not solely discourage the reduction of presidential power; they can also motivate politicians to champion reforms and oversight ...
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Current Political Climate and Polarization in the Us
Carlin on Current Politics Illuminating Historical Upheaval
Dan Carlin, a noted commentator on history and politics, draws comparisons between today's tumultuous political climate and those of past historical upheavals, specifically the 1930s and 1940s.
Carlin on Human Tendency to Ignore or Rationalize Political Trends
While the transcript does not provide specific details about Carlin’s views on a tendency to ignore or rationalize political trends, comments made by Carlin on the lack of public discourse about presidential powers and the systemic disincentives to address the issue suggest a broader perspective that society often overlooks or justifies ongoing political shifts.
Carlin's View: Us as the "Most Dangerous" Ever
Desensitization to Democratic Norm Breaches and Executive Power Expansion
Dan Carlin expresses that he feels the country is in its most dangerous state during his lifetime due to complacency or denial about significant changes to political norms. These changes, according to Carlin, would not have been tolerated in past decades.
Sam Harris echoes this concern, focusing on the reliance on norms rather than laws. Harris discusses how the first Trump administration demonstrated that norms could be violated with little co ...
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Current Political Climate and Polarization in the Us
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Counterarguments
- The comparison to the 1930s and 1940s might be seen as an exaggeration, as the global context and internal dynamics of the US are significantly different now, with stronger institutions and more checks and balances in place.
- Some may argue that society is not ignoring political shifts but rather engaging in them through new forms of activism and political participation, such as social media campaigns, grassroots movements, and increased voter turnout in some demographics.
- It could be contended that the US has faced other periods of significant danger and division, such as during the Civil War, the civil rights movement, or the Vietnam War, and that the current state, while challenging, is not unprecedented in terms of danger.
- Others might suggest that the expansion of executive power has been a gradual process seen across multiple administrations, both Republican and Democrat, and is not unique to the current political climate.
- There is a perspective that norms are ...
Actionables
- You can start a "Democracy Journal" to track political events and your reactions to them, fostering awareness of shifts in norms. Keep a notebook or digital document where you jot down notable political events each week. Reflect on how these events compare to historical standards of democracy and whether they represent a shift in norms. This practice will help you notice patterns and changes you might otherwise overlook.
- Engage in "Norm Audits" within your social circles to encourage conversations about democratic values. During gatherings or online discussions with friends and family, bring up recent political developments and ask for their perspectives on whether these align with or diverge from democratic norms. This can help break the bubble of complacency by fostering a culture of vigilance and discussion about political changes.
- Create a "Civic Action Plan" to transform concern into proactive citizenship. Identify one o ...
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