In this episode of the Lex Fridman Podcast, David Kirtley clarifies the differences between nuclear fusion and fission, explaining how fusion—the process that powers stars—combines light atomic nuclei to release energy, while fission splits heavy atoms like uranium. He outlines the main advantages of fusion, including its simpler electricity conversion process and reduced radioactive waste production.
The conversation explores the technical hurdles of achieving nuclear fusion, which requires temperatures exceeding 100 million degrees Celsius, and details Helion Energy's progress in fusion technology development. Kirtley discusses his company's rapid prototyping approach, their success with their latest prototype, and their partnership with Microsoft to develop what they aim to establish as the first commercial fusion power plant by 2028.

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David Kirtley explains that nuclear fusion, the process powering stars, combines light atomic nuclei to form heavier ones, releasing enormous energy in the process. While fusion underlies much of the universe's energy, we haven't yet harnessed it on Earth for electricity generation. In contrast, nuclear fission, which we currently use in power plants, splits heavy atoms like uranium. While both processes release energy through mass-to-energy conversion, Kirtley notes that fusion has advantages: it produces charged particles that simplify electricity conversion and doesn't generate long-lived radioactive waste.
The primary challenge of fusion lies in creating and maintaining the extreme conditions necessary for the reaction. Kirtley describes how fusion requires heating isotopes to over 100 million degrees Celsius and maintaining sufficient density for fusion to occur. Scientists have explored various confinement methods, including magnetic and inertial approaches, each with its own complexities.
In pulsed systems, engineers must manage rapid electrical current switching at the microsecond scale and maintain precise control over plasma behavior. Advanced simulation tools, including magnetohydrodynamic code and particle simulations, help scientists understand and control these complex systems.
Helion Energy has taken an innovative approach to fusion development, rapidly iterating through prototypes using an agile, manufacturing-focused strategy. Kirtley shares that the company has built seven increasingly larger systems, with their latest prototype, Trenta, achieving 100 million degrees and successfully performing deuterium and helium-3 fusion.
Looking ahead, Helion has partnered with Microsoft to establish what they hope will be the first commercial fusion power plant by 2028. The company's technology boasts over 95% efficiency in recovering magnetic energy, and they envision their fusion technology powering data centers and potentially enabling space exploration, as Kirtley points out that helium-3 fuel is abundant on the Moon and Jupiter.
1-Page Summary
Understanding the fundamental differences between nuclear fusion and nuclear fission is crucial as humanity explores various forms of energy production.
David Kirtley explains that nuclear fusion is a fundamental force in the universe, the process that powers stars and provides the energy that has indirectly supported human civilization, even through fossil fuels derived from ancient plants. Although fusion underlies what has enabled humans to advance, this process has not yet been harnessed on Earth to generate electricity.
Fusion combines light atomic nuclei or isotopes, such as hydrogen and deuterium, to form heavier nuclei. This releases tremendous energy because the mass of the combined nucleus is slightly less than the sum of its parts, a conversion of mass to energy as described by E=mc². David Kirtley mentions that fusion releases energy in the form of charged particles, simplifying the conversion to electricity because it already has electricity built into it.
In contrast, nuclear fission, which is utilized in current nuclear power plants, involves splitting heavy atoms like uranium into smaller nuclei, thereby also releasing a significant amount of energy. The total mass of the resulting pieces is less than the original heavy nucleus, again following E=mc². However, fission results in radioactive waste that can remain dangerous for long periods and involves a risk of meltdown.
Lex Fridman emphasizes that fusion results in clean fuel from water, without long-lived radioactive waste, and is inherently safe without carbon emissions. He speculates that advanced civilizations across the universe could be powered by fusion, just as our sun powers our solar system.
Achieving fusion on Earth req ...
Fundamentals of Nuclear Fusion vs Nuclear Fission
Fusion energy holds the promise of providing an almost limitless supply of clean energy, but achieving it comes with monumental technical and engineering challenges. Kirtley and others in the field discuss these challenges comprehensively, mapping out the complexities involved in creating conditions suitable for nuclear fusion and sustaining them.
The atomic nuclei in fusion are positively charged, and their natural repulsion must be overcome for fusion to occur. To achieve fusion, particles must be heated to move fast enough to bring them close enough for the strong nuclear force to come into play. The fundamental process involves heating isotopes to over one hundred million degrees, achieving sufficient density and volume, and keeping particles together long enough to undergo fusion.
In fusion, plasma beta is a crucial ratio showing how well plasma is confined within the magnetic field. High beta levels imply plasma is exerting pressure against the magnetic field, with tilting movements due to pressure. Kirtley talks about kinetic energy and inertia, suggesting the need for imparting sufficient inertia and kinetic energy to particles to maintain stability. At around 10,000 degrees, gases become plasma with free-floating electrons and positively charged nuclei. To protect materials from damage by these high-velocity particles, magnetic fields are used for containment.
Pulsed systems aim to contain fusion reactions for set periods, with significant engineering challenges in maintaining control and stability. Kirtley explains that in magneto-inertial fusion, they aim for extremely high magnetic fields and pressure. Plasmas with high energy confinement lifetime show stability far beyond basic theory. To achieve fusion between deuterium and tritium, and even more so for helium-3 fusion, extremely high temperatures are needed. This introduces the problem of reduced density with increased temperature in a given magnetic field.
High power lasers in inertial fusion physically push particles together for fusion, while magnetic fusion, seen in tokamaks and stellarators, contains the heated particles through magnetic fields. The stability and longevity of particle containment are crucial. The curving of solenoids into tokamaks is one innovation aimed at preventing particle escape. In the field reverse configuration (FRC) method, a rapidly changing magnetic field causes plasma to self-contain due to trapped particles.
The challenge lies in managing fusion systems' dynamics, which have the potential for instability, such as a plasma donut shifting under pressure. Controlling such a solar flare-like reaction requires precision, with rapid electrical current switching at the microsecond scale. Kirtley points out that using electromagnetic force to compress fusion plasma is highly unstable, making stable containment difficult.
Rapid switching, sensitive measurement, and sophisticated integration are pivotal for controlling and sustaining fusion. Fusion codes written in languages like Fortran, Python, and Java often require assembly lan ...
Technical and Engineering Challenges Of Achieving Nuclear Fusion
Helion Energy is taking a unique, rapid approach to developing fusion technology with a goal to establish the first commercial fusion power plant by 2028. This endeavor involves a strong partnership with Microsoft and carries potential for various applications, including powering data centers and possibly aiding space exploration.
David Kirtley of Helion discusses how the company has rapidly iterated through fusion technology prototypes using an agile, manufacturing-focused approach to overcome the challenges of achieving nuclear fusion. Helion's commitment to speed and agility can be seen in their practice of using second-hand equipment from eBay to cut down on waiting times. This pragmatic strategy reflects their focus on functionality over newness.
Kirtley emphasizes the necessity of a mass-producible fusion product, mentioning that Helion has already built a series of seven systems, named colloquially after sizes of beer and coffee cups, which demonstrates their incremental scaling process. The largest system, Trenta, introduced in 2020, enabled Helion to reach 100 million degrees and perform deuterium and helium-3 fusion. Helion funded the early work on these prototypes through government grants. Additionally, the company reflects a culture of rapid building, maintaining a predominantly technician workforce to support the scientists, which is essential in their approach centred on manufacturing to construct prototypes swiftly.
Moving beyond prototypes, Helion has set a significant goal to establish the first commercial fusion power plant by 2028. They've actively been collaborating with Microsoft to achieve this objective, with plans to power one of Microsoft's data centers. Kirtley's discussions outline the plans in place for siting, interconnects, and the various regulatory hurdles associated with connecting a nuclear fusion power plant to the power grid.
The fusion power plant's impending integration employs Helion's magneto-inertial fusion technique, a method distinct from the traditional tokamaks. This approach uses magnetic fields both to compress and confine the fuel and offers an exciting aspect of Helion's technology: efficiency. Kirtley boasts of over 95% efficiency, where they can recov ...
Helion's Fusion Technology Development and Commercialization Efforts
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