532: Economic Warfare. The Power of Business In America. Sam Rogers, Joe Cruz, Steve Simar.
In this episode of Jocko Podcast, the founders of Symmetry Sauna—Sam Rogers, Steve Simar, and Joe Cruz—share their journey of building a successful sauna manufacturing business. The discussion covers how they started their company with minimal capital, overcame significant setbacks including flood damage, and expanded from a local studio to serving international clients.
The founders explain their unconventional approach to business partnerships, including working with friends and family, and detail how they identified opportunities in the underdeveloped U.S. sauna market. They discuss their strategies for maintaining customer satisfaction, adapting to market demands, and managing the company's growth from a 1,400-square-foot studio to handling multi-million dollar contracts.
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The Founding and Background of Symmetry Sauna
Symmetry Sauna emerged from the diverse backgrounds of its three founders: Sam Rogers, a former painting company owner and outdoors enthusiast; Steve Simar, who transitioned from youth ministry and competitive skydiving to running a paint company; and Joe Cruz, who built his career in banking before entering the sauna industry. United by their vision to revolutionize the American sauna experience, they established their first studio in Coeur d'Alene, which eventually expanded into a manufacturing operation.
The Challenges of Starting and Growing the Business
The founders faced significant early challenges, including starting with minimal capital and suffering extensive flood damage to their initial 1,400-square-foot studio. Steve Simar reveals they began with just $17, while Joe Cruz notes they operated without loans or outside investment. Despite these setbacks, including an insurance payout of only $6,200 for the flood damage, they persevered and rebuilt, expanding to a 3,800-square-foot facility. The team also navigated complex partnership decisions, ultimately bringing on their general manager, Heather, as an owner.
The Importance of Business Partnerships and Relationships
Against conventional wisdom, Joe Cruz shares that they built their business by working with friends and family. This approach proved successful, with volunteers from their church eventually becoming key staff members - Josh Watkins rising to Chief of Operations and Shelley Watkins handling procurement. The founders demonstrated their commitment to customer satisfaction through extraordinary measures, such as personally flying out to fix malfunctioning saunas.
The Growth and Success of Symmetry Sauna
Sam Rogers notes that the U.S. sauna market's underdevelopment compared to Finland presented significant growth opportunities. The company has expanded from a local Northwest studio to serving international clients, including high-profile customers like Laura Trump. Their success, according to Cruz and Rogers, stems from their dedication to excellence and willingness to take risks, such as handling a $6.5 million contract. The company maintains its competitive edge through continuous adaptation and an unwavering focus on customer satisfaction.
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Additional Materials
Actionables
- You can start a small venture with minimal funds by identifying a low-cost niche market and using pre-owned or discounted equipment to minimize initial expenses. For example, if you're passionate about sustainable living, consider starting a business selling upcycled furniture by sourcing free or cheap discarded items and refurbishing them with minimal tools.
- Build resilience by creating a contingency plan for your personal projects or business endeavors, such as setting aside an emergency fund or learning basic repair skills. If you're working on a home renovation, for instance, learn how to manage minor plumbing or electrical issues to avoid costly setbacks if unexpected damages occur.
- Foster strong community ties by volunteering your skills or resources to local organizations, which can lead to valuable connections and support for your own goals. If you're a photographer, offer to take free professional headshots at a local job fair, which can help you network with potential clients while giving back to the community.
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The Founding and Background of Symmetry Sauna
Symmetry Sauna, a unique sauna company in the United States, has its roots deeply planted in the diverse backgrounds and shared interests of its founders: Sam Rogers, Steve Simar, and Joe Cruz.
Symmetry Sauna Founders' Diverse Backgrounds: Sports, Ministry, Banking
The diverse experiences of the founders provided a rich foundation for the concept of Symmetry Sauna.
Sam Rogers: Outdoors Enthusiast and Beach Volleyball Player From Montana to San Diego
Sam Rogers started his career by owning and operating a residential painting company in San Diego for 17 years. Though no longer involved in the day-to-day operations, he remains passionate about outdoors activities, including bow hunting and volleyball.
Steve Simar's Passion For Skydiving and Photography From West Point
Steve Simar grew up in West Point, New York, and attended university in Montana where he enjoyed skiing and pursued youth ministry. His move to San Diego led to him working in commercial photography and competitive skydiving before starting a paint company in Idaho, influenced by the life changes brought about by COVID-19.
Joe Cruz: From Banking Success to Sauna Business
Joe Cruz left school in 10th grade and quickly moved up the banking ladder in San Diego after starting a family. Under the mentorship of Jim Patterson and his subsequent mentor Logan Ross, Joe shifted to the sauna industry, bringing his passion for sales and management with him.
Founders United by Shared Interests and Dedication To a Unique Sauna Company
Sharing a vision for a modern sauna experience that broke away from the average American perceptions of a boxy and dingy space, the founders embarked on a journey to revolutionize the industry.
Founders Saw a Need for a Modern, Appealing Sauna Experience in the U.S
Joe Cruz, along with his family’s support, decided to exit California and settle in Coeur d'Alene, where the concept of creating a sauna business began. He shared his ambitions to transform the sauna industry, emphasizing the need to break away from traditional aesthetics like the common cedar design.
Steve Simar recognized that their sauna studio was at the forefront of a niche market for better sauna experiences which led to aggr ...
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The Founding and Background of Symmetry Sauna
Additional Materials
Actionables
- You can draw inspiration from your hobbies to innovate in your field by identifying elements from activities you love and brainstorming how they could enhance your work or business. For example, if you enjoy gardening, consider how the principles of growth and nurturing could apply to team development or customer relations.
- Explore collaboration with individuals from different backgrounds to create a unique business concept by reaching out to local community groups or online forums and proposing a joint venture that combines your varied skills and interests. If you're a baker and you meet someone with a background in technology, you might create an app that pairs artisanal bread recipes with smart kitchen appliances.
- Embrace a minimal ...
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The Challenges Of Starting and Growing the Business
When starting Symmetry Sauna, founders Steve Simar, Joe Cruz, and Sam Rogers faced a host of financial difficulties and setbacks, yet their commitment to overcoming these challenges drove the company's eventual success. Their bootstrap approach and careful navigation of business partnerships proved crucial.
Symmetry Sauna Encountered Financial Difficulties and Setbacks Early, Including Flood Damage to the Studio
Steve Simar invested all he had, a meager $17, into the fledgling business, which they initially named "heat praxia." This initial branding led to confusion among potential customers, indicating a need for better clarity. Over budget and without proper marketing, the studio faced an uphill battle right from the start.
Founders Committed To Overcoming Challenges
Tragedy struck when pipes burst due to low temperatures, resulting in significant flood damage to their 1,400 square foot studio. Unfortunately, the founders were out of pocket several hundred thousand dollars, as their insurance only covered $6,200 due to a clause regarding frozen pipes. Despite this financial debacle, the team was resolved to continue, and they rebuilt their studio, now sized at 3,800 square feet, showcasing their remarkable tenacity.
Bootstrap Approach: Funding Growth Without Outside Investment
Highlighting their bootstrap mentality, Joe Cruz admitted they started with no initial money, loans, or outside investments. Steve Simar talked about periods when founders could only take a small amount of money from the business due to financial constraints. Sam Rogers even used profits from his other business, bullet painting, to support Symmetry Sauna and transitioned to focus full-time despite a modest pay, demonstrating the founders' commitment to funding growth internally.
Founders Navigated Challenges in Business Partnerships and Decision-Making
When it came to business partnerships, the founders faced tough choices. One such instance involved a potential partner, where Rogers sensed possible exploitation, and a conflict in personality. Simar was initially optimistic about the partnership, while Cruz remained neutral before siding with Rogers against proceeding.
Founders Disagreed On a Partner, Emerged Stronger
Eventually ...
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The Challenges Of Starting and Growing the Business
Additional Materials
Actionables
- You can start a small side project with minimal investment to learn the ropes of entrepreneurship. Begin with something as simple as a pop-up stand selling homemade crafts or baked goods. This will give you a taste of starting a business with limited funds, helping you understand budget management and the importance of incremental growth.
- Create a personal brand that clearly communicates your values and what you stand for. Use social media platforms to share stories and insights that reflect your personal journey and professional ethos. This can attract like-minded individuals and potential collaborators who share your values and work ethic.
- Practice decision-making with friends or family on ...
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The Importance of Business Partnerships and Relationships
The founders of Symmetry Sauna attribute their success to the strength of their business relationships and their commitment to nurturing those connections. From working with friends and family to empowering employees and fostering customer loyalty, their approach highlights how integral relationships are to a business’s growth and prosperity.
Symmetry Sauna Founders Credit Success to Relationships and Commitment
The importance of relationship-building in the success of Symmetry Sauna is evident through the experiences shared by the founders. Joe Cruz and Steve Simar openly discuss how their approach to business has been deeply influenced by the relationships they have fostered.
Founders Value Working With Friends and Family, Despite Advice Otherwise
Joe Cruz reveals that against conventional wisdom, they started the company by involving friends and family in the business. This decision highlighted their belief in the strength of pre-existing relationships. In a classic display of community support, a couple from their church volunteered to help at their startup without expectations of immediate pay, demonstrating the level of trust and support the founders cultivated.
Joe Cruz also speaks about the importance of investing time with family and giving back through donations, indicating the founders’ high regard for relationships not just within the business, but in their broader community too.
Fostered a Supportive Dynamic to Overcome Challenges and Make Decisions
Steve Simar talks about how the other founders were gracious and supportive even when faced with a difficult situation of a bad decision to choose a partner. Rather than placing blame, they took collective responsibility for decisions, showcasing a supportive dynamic critical in overcoming challenges.
Founders Built Strong Ties With Employees, Customers, and Partners
The founders of Symmetry Sauna understood the significance of building strong relationships, not just among themselves, but with their employees, customers, and business partners.
Team Empowerment: Employee Promoted To Partner
In a notable example of employee empowerment, Heather, who started as the general manager, was later promoted to an equal partner in the studio. This kind of ladder-climbing opportunity shows a deep level of trust and recognition of talent within their team.
Volunteers Josh and Shelley Watkins, who initially worked without a paycheck, became integral to the company’s operations with Shelley handling procurement and government contracting and Josh being elevated to Chief of Operations.
The existence of dedicated teams in various locations, including Coeur d'Alene and Florida, along with important partners like Tony and Vera who run the Symmetry Build division, signifies the empowerment and ...
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The Importance of Business Partnerships and Relationships
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Counterarguments
- While involving friends and family in business can strengthen pre-existing relationships, it can also lead to potential conflicts of interest and difficulties in maintaining professional boundaries.
- The narrative of collective responsibility for bad decisions is commendable, but it may not always be practical or fair, as some decisions may be primarily driven by one individual or a subset of the group.
- Promoting employees to partners is a strong sign of empowerment, but it could also create challenges in maintaining a clear hierarchy and decision-making process within the company.
- The reliance on volunteers and unpaid work, even if it later leads to integral roles and paid positions, could be criticized for potentially exploiting goodwill and may not be a sustainable or ethical business practice in all contexts.
- Personal involvement in resolving customer issues, while demonstrating dedication, may not be scalable as the company ...
Actionables
- You can deepen your business relationships by starting a monthly "Share & Support" meetup with local entrepreneurs. This informal gathering would be a space where you and other business owners can discuss challenges, share resources, and offer mutual support, fostering a sense of community and collaboration.
- Create a "Family & Friends Investment Day" where you present your business goals and progress to your inner circle, inviting them to contribute ideas or resources in a way that feels comfortable and inclusive. This can help maintain and strengthen your personal networks while also potentially providing new insights or support for your business.
- Implement a "Customer Hero" program where you e ...
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The Growth and Success of Symmetry Sauna
Symmetry Sauna, a Leading Custom Sauna Manufacturer, Has Grown Rapidly
Jocko Willink, Joe Cruz, and Sam Rogers highlight Symmetry Sauna's rapid expansion and ascent to a leading position in the custom sauna market, servicing a global customer base and attracting high-profile clients.
The Company Expanded Its Sauna Studio to Serve a Growing Global Customer Base
The U.S. sauna market, as explained by Rogers, is not as developed as in places like Finland, implying significant room for growth. Symmetry Sauna has capitalised on this by expanding their studio, showing a willingness to support commercial sauna ventures and integrate into the wider sauna industry. They specialize exclusively in saunas, indicative of their focused growth strategy, and their incremental steps, such as building two saunas at the podcast recording location, have contributed to their expansion. With the growing customer base and inquiries coming from across the country and from places like the Bahamas and the UK, Symmetry Sauna has evolved from a local studio in the Northwest to a national and international player in the market.
Symmetry Sauna Attracts High-Profile Clients With Innovative, High-Quality Designs
The company's quality and innovation have not gone unnoticed. Symmetry Sauna's commitment to guiding customers through the purchasing process, providing high temperature capacity saunas, and focusing on the health benefits for families have contributed to its acclaim. A marketing focus on health, particularly suggesting families to use saunas, like in Finland, has aided worldwide engagement. Willink regards Symmetry Sauna as producing some of the best saunas, and high-profile clients such as Laura Trump, who sought their services for custom designs, further suggest their top-quality status. After completing a project for Laura Trump, plans are in place to redo the saunas at the Trump winery, indicating their success in attracting esteemed clientele.
Founders Credit Symmetry Sauna's Success to Dedication, Hard Work, and Risks
Symmetry Sauna's founders—echoed by Cruz and Rogers—attribute the company's success to their commitment to excel amid challenges, embodying dedication and a resilient vision.
Founders Remain Focused on Their Vision Despite Challenges
The founders have shown a focused vision, evident in the company's strong identity in the industry and a studio voted the best business in Coeur d'Alene. Their perseverance in problem-solving and unique positioning within an industry with a significant history has allowed them to attract discerning customers who appreciate custom design and superior quality. Constantly reinventing and pushing their capabilities, Symmetr ...
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The Growth and Success of Symmetry Sauna
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Clarifications
- Jocko Willink is a retired Navy SEAL and leadership expert known for his work on discipline and business leadership. Joe Cruz and Sam Rogers are likely key figures within Symmetry Sauna, possibly founders or executives involved in the company's growth. Their relevance lies in providing expert insights and firsthand accounts of the company's development and strategy. They help explain Symmetry Sauna's success and industry positioning.
- Finland has a deeply rooted sauna culture, with saunas being a traditional and integral part of daily life for most Finns. The U.S. sauna market is relatively new and less widespread, offering significant growth potential. Finnish saunas emphasize health, relaxation, and social bonding, setting a high standard for quality and experience. This cultural difference means the U.S. market is still developing awareness and demand for authentic sauna experiences.
- A sauna studio is a specialized facility where custom saunas are designed, built, and sometimes displayed. It functions as both a workshop and showroom, allowing clients to experience sauna options firsthand. The studio often serves as a hub for innovation, craftsmanship, and customer consultation within the sauna industry. It supports commercial and residential projects by providing tailored sauna solutions.
- "High temperature capacity saunas" refers to saunas designed to safely reach and maintain higher heat levels than standard models. Higher temperatures enhance the sauna's therapeutic benefits, such as improved circulation and detoxification. These saunas require specialized materials and construction to withstand intense heat without damage. They also need precise controls to ensure user safety and comfort.
- In Finland, sauna use is a deeply ingrained cultural tradition practiced by families together, promoting relaxation and bonding. Regular sauna sessions are believed to improve cardiovascular health, reduce stress, and support overall well-being. Finnish saunas often serve as a communal space where family members connect and maintain mental and physical health. This cultural emphasis highlights saunas as a holistic health practice beyond mere relaxation.
- Having high-profile clients like Laura Trump and the Trump winery serves as a strong endorsement of Symmetry Sauna's quality and reliability. Such clients attract media attention and increase brand visibility, enhancing the company's prestige. This association builds trust with potential customers who value products favored by well-known figures. It also opens doors to further elite clientele and business opportunities.
- Managing a $6.5 million contract in the custom sauna industry involves coordinating large-scale production, ensuring high-quality craftsmanship, and meeting strict deadlines. It requires significant financial planning to handle upfront costs and cash flow throughout the project. Challenges include sourcing premium materials, managing skilled labor, and navigating regulatory compliance. Effective communication with clients and suppliers is crucial to avoid costly delays and maintain reputation.
- Scaling a custom sauna manufacturing company involves financial risks like large upfront investments in materials, labor, and facilities without guaranteed sales. Legal decisions may include contracts with suppliers and clients, intellectual property protection for designs, and compliance with safety and building regulations. Managing liability risks is crucial, as faulty products can lead to lawsuits. Additionally, navigating employment laws and zoning permits becomes more complex as the company grows.
- Rebranding involves changing a company's image or identity to bette ...
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