Podcasts > Jocko Podcast > 503: Delta Force, Mogadishu, and the Legacy of Black Hawk Down. With Norm "Hoot" Hooten.

503: Delta Force, Mogadishu, and the Legacy of Black Hawk Down. With Norm "Hoot" Hooten.

By Jocko DEFCOR Network

In this episode of Jocko Podcast, guest Norm Hooten shares his journey from a challenging upbringing in West Texas to becoming a Delta Force operator. He discusses his path through the Army and Special Forces, including his role in significant operations such as the Battle of Mogadishu in 1993. The conversation covers how this battle exposed tactical vulnerabilities and led to substantial changes in Special Operations training and equipment.

Hooten also describes his transition to civilian life, where he pursued a career in pharmacy to address veterans' substance abuse issues. He details his work establishing an interdisciplinary clinic for veterans with complex needs, including those dealing with PTSD and substance use disorders. The discussion extends to his current entrepreneurial ventures, including a whiskey and cigar business that pays tribute to military service members.

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503: Delta Force, Mogadishu, and the Legacy of Black Hawk Down. With Norm "Hoot" Hooten.

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503: Delta Force, Mogadishu, and the Legacy of Black Hawk Down. With Norm "Hoot" Hooten.

1-Page Summary

Hooten's Background and Path to Special Forces

Norm Hooten grew up in a challenging environment in West Texas, where his father's criminal activities and frequent encounters with violence shaped his early life. Despite this difficult upbringing, or perhaps because of it, Hooten developed skills that would later serve him well in the military. He joined the Army after high school, finding structure and mentorship that changed the trajectory of his life.

In the Army, Hooten excelled, particularly in Special Forces training. His childhood experiences with firearms and comfort around intense situations helped him thrive. He achieved the highest score in the Defense Language Institute's Turkish language program and graduated in the top 10% of his Special Forces class.

Hooten's Experiences and Lessons Learned In Special Forces

During his Special Forces career, Hooten participated in various sensitive missions, including training Saudi Arabian forces and operations to capture Manuel Antonio Noriega. He emphasizes how his unit constantly adapted to evolving warfare environments, seeking innovations in equipment and tactics. Hooten particularly values the strong relationships formed with colleagues, including British SAS members, highlighting the importance of trust and communication in complex operations.

The Battle of Mogadishu and Its Aftermath

The 1993 Battle of Mogadishu revealed significant vulnerabilities in Hooten's unit's tactical approach and equipment. They faced challenges with poor intelligence, communication issues, and inadequate equipment for urban warfare. These experiences led to substantial changes in Special Operations training, tactics, and equipment choices, particularly regarding armored vehicles and communications systems.

Hooten reflects on the battle's profound human impact, both on himself and the families of those lost. The experience reshaped his tactical approach and highlighted the importance of proper preparation for future operations.

Hooten's Post-Military Career and Work Addressing Substance Abuse

After his military service, Hooten pursued a career in pharmacy, motivated by his experience with veterans' substance abuse issues at the VA. Despite initial doubts about his academic abilities, he completed pharmacy school at Campbell University. He later established an interdisciplinary clinic to address veterans' complex needs, particularly those with co-occurring conditions like PTSD and substance use.

Hooten has also ventured into entrepreneurship, founding a whiskey and cigar business that commemorates military service. His products, available in 34 states, integrate military stories and symbols, serving as a tribute to service members while promoting responsible enjoyment.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The Defense Language Institute (DLI) is a United States Department of Defense educational and research institution responsible for providing language education and training to military personnel. DLI offers intensive language programs in various languages to equip military personnel with linguistic skills for operational purposes. The Turkish language program at DLI focuses on teaching Turkish language and culture to students, preparing them for roles where proficiency in Turkish is essential for military operations or diplomatic purposes. Students undergo rigorous training in listening, speaking, reading, and writing Turkish to achieve fluency and proficiency in the language.
  • Manuel Antonio Noriega was a Panamanian dictator and military officer who ruled Panama from 1983 to 1989. He had ties with American intelligence agencies and was involved in drug trafficking operations. Noriega's relationship with the U.S. deteriorated in the late 1980s, leading to the U.S. invasion of Panama in 1989 to remove him from power.
  • The British SAS (Special Air Service) is a renowned special forces unit of the British Army, specializing in covert operations, counter-terrorism, and reconnaissance. They are highly trained in various combat techniques and are known for their expertise in unconventional warfare. The SAS often collaborates with allied special forces units, like the US Special Forces, to exchange knowledge, enhance capabilities, and conduct joint operations. In the context of Norm Hooten's experiences, working alongside British SAS members highlights the international cooperation and shared expertise in elite military units.
  • The 1993 Battle of Mogadishu, also known as the Black Hawk Down incident, was a military operation in Somalia involving U.S. forces. It was part of a mission to capture key lieutenants of a Somali warlord. The operation faced unexpected resistance, leading to a prolonged firefight and the loss of American lives. The battle highlighted challenges in urban warfare and had significant impacts on U.S. military strategies and operations.
  • Co-occurring conditions like PTSD and substance use refer to individuals experiencing both post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and substance abuse issues simultaneously. This co-occurrence can complicate treatment as each condition can exacerbate the other, leading to a more challenging recovery process. Addressing both conditions concurrently is crucial for effective treatment and recovery outcomes. Integrated approaches that consider the interconnected nature of these conditions are often necessary for comprehensive care.
  • Campbell University is a private Christian university located in Buies Creek, North Carolina. It offers various academic programs across different schools and campuses, including the College of Pharmacy & Health Sciences and the Norman Adrian Wiggins School of Law in Raleigh. The university has a rich history dating back to its founding as Buies Creek Academy in 1887 by James Archibald Campbell. Campbell University is known for its diverse academic offerings and strong athletic programs.

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503: Delta Force, Mogadishu, and the Legacy of Black Hawk Down. With Norm "Hoot" Hooten.

Hooten's Background and Path to Special Forces

Norm Hooten shares his journey from a tough upbringing in West Texas to a distinguished career in the Special Forces, where his childhood experiences found unexpected relevance.

Hooten's Violent Texas Upbringing With a Criminal Father

Hooten's Early Life: Poverty, Family Troubles, and Exposure to Violence and Lawlessness

Hooten's childhood was characterized by poverty and family troubles, including a father who was regularly involved in criminal activities such as bootleg whiskey production, barroom brawling, and even a charge of homicide when Hooten was about ten years old. Despite this violent and lawless environment, which included exposure to serious conflicts where people were knifed and shot, he learned to be self-sufficient and adventurous. These traits, along with his experience handling a rifle at a young age and growing up around violence that didn't scare him, inadvertently equipped him with skills that served him well in the military.

Hooten's father had a history of being in and out of jail, and as a child, Norm often felt like he was an inmate when going to school, a place he detested. His family's criminal background influenced the unconventional and often dangerous environment in which he was raised, leading him to witness violence and lawlessness from a young age.

Hooten Joined the Army After High School, a Life Turning Point

Despite the challenges of his upbringing, Hooten joined the Army straight out of high school. His entry into the military was not born from a well-informed choice but rather a desire to be involved with guns and action, shaped by an attraction to the imagery associated with the Special Forces. As he enlisted, Hooten found structure and comradeship among individuals from diverse parts of the Army, a mix that represented a significant positive shift from his past life.

Hooten reflects that if he had not joined the Army, where he found mentors like Richard Stickel and Armstrong, he might have ended up back at the ranch in Texas or potentially in prison. His time in the military became a safe space and gave his life a new direction, so much so that he contemplated a lifelong military career.

Hooten Excelled In the Army, Earning a Special Forces Spot On an Elite Team

Hooten's Skills and Adaptation Helped Him Thrive In Special Forces Selection

Upon joining the Army, Hooten found the initial training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, to be less challenging than his difficult upbringing. His ch ...

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Hooten's Background and Path to Special Forces

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Actionables

  • You can reflect on your own challenging experiences to identify skills and strengths you've developed. Write down difficult situations from your past and next to each, list the positive traits or abilities you gained. For example, if you had to mediate family arguments, you might have developed strong communication and conflict resolution skills.
  • Explore structured environments that promote growth and camaraderie, such as local clubs or volunteer organizations. Join a group that aligns with your interests, like a hiking club for adventure or a coding meetup for discipline and learning, to experience the benefits of structured support and teamwork.
  • Seek out mentors who can guide you towa ...

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503: Delta Force, Mogadishu, and the Legacy of Black Hawk Down. With Norm "Hoot" Hooten.

Hooten's Experiences and Lessons Learned In Special Forces

Norm Hooten reflects on his extensive tenure in the Special Forces, sharing the transformative lessons on adaptability, problem-solving, and teamwork that were ingrained through rigorous training, complex missions, and an evolving landscape of warfare.

Hooten's Special Forces Tenure Involved Training Foreign Forces and Conducting Sensitive Missions

Hooten Learned Adaptability, Problem-Solving, and Thriving In High-Pressure Environments

During his 18 months in Saudi Arabia on projects Roof Shingle and later Royal Oak, Hooten and his team provided a simplified Special Forces course to Saudi Arabians. With other government agencies' personnel embedded alongside them, it indicated a collaborative approach toward sensitive and classified operations. He also found himself continuously evaluated, even after leaving the training unit for an active team. His solo mission to Beirut at a young age simmered a necessity to adapt and thrive independently. Moreover, the mission to capture Manuel Antonio Noriega and conducting searches across 33 buildings showcased the massive scope and complexity of the missions he was involved in.

Hooten Witnessed the Evolving Warfare and the Need for Special Operations Forces to Adapt Tactics, Techniques, and Equipment

Hooten's Unit Acknowledged Gear and Vehicle Limitations, Seeking New Technologies and Capabilities

Learning from the British SAS on changing warfare environments and adopting new tactics became core insights for Hooten. His unit, seeking to remain relevant, pursued innovations in gear and weaponry, such as the "Panther" vehicle for better protection. In his diverse missions, ranging from orchestrating a motorcade manipulation to conducting live fire training, Hooten highlighted the importance of trial and error and equipment awareness.

Special Forces Taught Hooten the Value of Strong Relationships and Teamwork

Hooten's ...

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Hooten's Experiences and Lessons Learned In Special Forces

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Actionables

  • You can enhance adaptability by setting up a "disruption day" where you intentionally alter your routine to tackle unexpected challenges. For example, take a different route to work, use a new software for your daily tasks, or cook a meal with unfamiliar ingredients. This will train your brain to adapt to new situations and find creative solutions.
  • Develop your teamwork skills by organizing a community clean-up or improvement project. Collaborate with neighbors or local businesses to identify an area that needs attention, plan the project, and execute it together. This experience will teach you the importance of relationships and teamwork in achieving a common goal.
  • Build trust and improve communi ...

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503: Delta Force, Mogadishu, and the Legacy of Black Hawk Down. With Norm "Hoot" Hooten.

The Battle of Mogadishu and Its Aftermath

1993 Battle of Mogadishu Exposed Hooten's Unit's Tactical and Equipment Vulnerabilities

During the 1993 Battle of Mogadishu, Norm Hooten's unit faced chaotic situations characterized by poor intelligence, communication issues, and unexpected heavy enemy resistance. As Hooten describes, their operation quickly shifted from being unlikely to springing into action upon confirmation of intelligence. He recalls seeing tire fires, interpreted as enemy signals, and realizing that their movement was likely compromised by embedded informants within UN troops. Tactical missteps included difficulties in securing the crash site perimeter, indicating a lack of foresight and positioning readiness.

He also mentions equipment vulnerabilities, such as the use of a wheeled armor personnel carrier with a gun and the need to armor Humvees with sandbags due to a lack of up-armored vehicles. A significant mistake Hooten acknowledges is not being adequately prepared with necessary equipment, like night vision goggles, which became essential in suddenly dark environments. This lack of preparation was evident during debrief sessions following the battle, where issues like vehicle problems at crash sites were discussed. Hooten recalls forgetting advice about using varying Landing Zones, which might have contributed to the chaos of the situation.

Mogadishu Battle Losses and Lessons Prompted Changes in Hooten's Unit and Special Ops Community

The losses and the intense challenges faced during the Battle of Mogadishu led to tangible changes within Hooten's unit and the broader Special Ops community. The battle's aftermath focused on revising training, tactics, and equipment for urban combat scenarios. Hooten himself reflects upon the necessity of these changes, especially stressing the importance of armored vehicles, communications, and close-quarters combat readiness.

The events in Somalia led to a shared understanding across various Special Forces, including SEALs, about the importance of armoring and equipping themselves better for urban warfare. This collaboration and sharing of lessons significantly contributed to later successes in the global war on terror. Additionally, the silver lining Hooten identifies in the battle's fallout is the realization that robust armored support was critical, which ran counter to the initial resistance within the unit that armored vehicles were not considered "commando stuff."

Lessons regarding the necessity of carrying proper equipment at all times, preparing for poor visibility conditions, and dealing with high casualties emerged prominently. The importance of reliable and secure communication lines came to the forefront, as Hooten highlights from his early days in Special Forces. They observed the need to adapt their equipment to the environment and the enemy's profile. Template plans for different scenarios like a motorcade or multi-structure operations were developed to ensure readiness for dynamic situations.

Battle of Mogadishu Aftermath Impacted Hooten, Familie ...

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The Battle of Mogadishu and Its Aftermath

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Actionables

  • You can enhance personal preparedness by creating a "readiness kit" for unexpected life events, such as job loss or natural disasters, including essential documents, emergency funds, and basic supplies.
    • Just as soldiers carry equipment for poor visibility, having a flashlight, extra batteries, and a first aid kit at home and in your car ensures you're equipped for emergencies. Practice using these items in the dark to simulate power outages or nighttime scenarios.
  • Develop a habit of reflective journaling to process past experiences and plan for future challenges, akin to military debrief sessions.
    • Set aside time each week to write about recent events, what you've learned, and how you can apply those lessons moving forward. This can help you identify patterns in your decision-making and improve your ability to adapt to new situations.
  • You can improve communication in personal and professional relationships by ...

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503: Delta Force, Mogadishu, and the Legacy of Black Hawk Down. With Norm "Hoot" Hooten.

Hooten's Post-Military Career and Work Addressing Substance Abuse

Norm Hooten’s transition from military service to pharmacy is driven by a desire to address veterans' substance abuse issues while honoring service members through entrepreneurial ventures.

Post-Military, Hooten Pursues Pharmacy Career to Make a Difference

Hooten's Special Forces Background Enriched His Healthcare Insights and Perspectives

After his time at the VA handling substance abuse among veterans, Hooten recognized the severity of the problem and chose to dive deeper into the field, seeking to understand and address the underlying issues. Assisting his wife with her pharmacy studies sparked his interest in medications, and despite initially laughing off the idea of attending pharmacy school due to a lack of confidence in his academic abilities, he ultimately took the plunge. Hooten completed prerequisite courses at night school on the Fort Bragg campus, took the PCAT, and was accepted into Campbell University’s pharmacy school. The decision to shift careers was motivated by a desire to spend more time with his family and his exposure to drug abuse in the military community.

Hooten on Substance Abuse in Veterans With Co-occurring Mental Health Conditions

Hooten's Insights Into Military Challenges Shaped His Holistic, Interdisciplinary Substance Abuse Approach

Hooten's military background provided not only expertise beneficial for Air Marshal training post-9/11 but also valuable insights into substance abuse issues that afflict veterans. His recognition of a pattern among veterans who presented in clinics with comorbid conditions like PTSD, substance use, and pain, culminated in the founding of an interdisciplinary clinic. This clinic, staffed by a variety of healthcare professionals, was a response to the unique needs of veterans suffering from co-occurring conditions and has become indicative of Hooten’s holistic approach to substance abuse problems. This interdisciplinary approach was born out of Hooten's recognition of the complexities of the veterans' struggles and his acknowledgement that these issues were too substantial for one person to handle alone.

Hooten's Efforts Highlight Need for Innovative Addiction Solutions

Hooten's Whiskey and Cigar Business Honors the Military and Explores Entrepreneurship

After departing from the VA, Hooten embarked on an entrepreneurial journey and founded a whiskey and cigar business. Tying in w ...

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Hooten's Post-Military Career and Work Addressing Substance Abuse

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Actionables

  • Explore a career pivot that aligns with your personal values by identifying a societal issue you're passionate about and researching related professions. For instance, if you're moved by environmental conservation, consider roles in sustainability or environmental science that can leverage your current skills in a meaningful way.
  • Create a small-scale community initiative that combines your hobbies with a cause you care about, similar to how Hooten's whiskey and cigar business honors military service. If you enjoy baking, for example, you could start a bake sale series where proceeds support local veterans' programs.
  • Engage in responsible storytelling by sharing narratives that raise awareness about issues important to ...

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