In this episode of Hidden Brain, Jamil Zaki breaks down empathy into three distinct psychological systems—emotional empathy, cognitive empathy, and empathic concern—each supported by different brain regions. He and Shankar Vedantam examine how modern life, from urbanization to technology and online anonymity, has altered the way people connect and understand one another. The conversation also addresses empathy's paradox: while it benefits those who receive it, chronic empathy can burden caregivers and lead to emotional withdrawal.
The episode explores practical strategies for building empathy, including reading fiction, acting, and using virtual reality to experience unfamiliar perspectives. Leslie John joins to discuss how vulnerability and self-disclosure create trust and connection, while also highlighting the risks when disclosure is met with dismissiveness or exploited by those with harmful intent. Together, these conversations examine both the challenges and opportunities for strengthening empathy in contemporary life.

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Jamil Zaki discusses empathy as a multi-faceted process that operates through three independent yet interconnected psychological systems. Drawing from his experience as a child of divorced parents, he learned to adapt to each parent's different emotional frequencies—an "empathy gym" that strengthened his connections with both. The first system, emotional empathy, involves catching another person's feelings vicariously. Cognitive empathy is about understanding what someone feels and why through perspective-taking. The third component, empathic concern or compassion, manifests as genuine care and desire to improve another's well-being. Zaki notes that distinct brain systems support each component, and people may excel at one while struggling with others. Shankar Vedantam likens these components to different muscle groups—full empathic capacity emerges when all are exercised together.
Zaki and Vedantam explore how urbanization, solitary living, and technology have reshaped empathy. Although city dwellers encounter more people than ever, sustained connections are rarer—most interactions are transactional rather than communal. Vedantam notes that among people aged 18 to 34, ten times as many live alone today compared to 1950. Technology further flattens social cues through text and avatars. Research by Juliana Schroeder shows people are more likely to dehumanize others when reading text versus hearing voices. Online anonymity removes social inhibitors, enabling harmful actions without consequences. Zaki notes that empathy itself can be parochial—it favors in-groups at the expense of outsiders. [restricted term], a "pro-social" hormone, intensifies this effect by increasing empathy for one's own group while worsening gaps toward out-groups. His research with police officers demonstrates how strong in-group empathy can come at the expense of understanding those outside the group.
While empathy produces consistently positive outcomes—patients of empathic doctors show higher satisfaction, spouses of empathic partners report greater happiness, and adolescents with emotion-perception skills handle stress better—those who provide empathy face psychological burdens. Zaki explains that "emotional labor" erodes caregivers' well-being through chronic exposure to suffering. About half of oncologists report heartbreak when delivering bad news, and therapists may avoid certain clients to protect their personal lives. This leads to "defensive dehumanization," where professionals distance themselves emotionally to cope. In everyday life, people actively avoid empathy triggers—a classic study showed passersby physically avoided a donation table manned by someone in a wheelchair. Ironically, those who are innately more empathic often withdraw further to shield themselves from overwhelming emotional burden.
Zaki and Vedantam highlight multiple strategies for strengthening empathy. Reading fiction is particularly powerful—research shows that both children and adults who read more fiction become more empathic, as novels allow readers to immerse themselves in lives very different from their own. Acting is another effective method, requiring performers to embody another person's consciousness so deeply that the boundary between self and other fades. Research comparing adolescents in performing arts schools found those studying acting showed greater empathy boosts than visual arts students. Zaki's research with virtual reality placed participants through the experience of becoming homeless, resulting in increased empathy and support for housing policies even a month later. The scope of empathy can also be broadened by expanding group identity—a study showed Manchester United fans who reflected on their love of soccer extended help even to rival Liverpool fans. Zaki stresses that recognizing different viewpoints originate from life experiences, not ignorance or malice, reduces naïve realism and creates room for greater understanding.
Shankar Vedantam and Leslie John explore how sharing vulnerabilities serves as the foundation of trust and meaningful connection. When someone discloses something sensitive, they signal trust, which powerfully encourages reciprocal sharing. John explains that self-disclosure fosters closeness, reduces loneliness, and elevates well-being—feelings are valuable data that are hard to fake and disarming in their honesty. However, non-reciprocal or dismissive responses can be devastating, as when one caller shared her son's vulnerable apology only to receive a noncommittal response. John identifies this as a "reciprocity fail" that breeds disconnection. Effective self-disclosure requires choosing the right recipient, timing, and context—disclosing to someone with very different values risks having vulnerability undermined or weaponized. The best responses focus on validating the courage behind disclosure rather than problem-solving, with John emphasizing that "less is often more." Vulnerability can also be exploited by scammers who share fabricated crises to build rapport, making it essential to recognize suspicious patterns while safeguarding the profound rewards that thoughtful disclosure and reception can bring.
1-Page Summary
Jamil Zaki discusses how empathy is a complex, multi-faceted process that allows people to connect, understand, and care for one another in varied ways. He draws from his personal experiences and psychological research to break down the core components of empathy.
As a child of divorced parents, Zaki learned to "tune [himself] to [his] parents' different frequencies," adapting to each parent's diverse priorities, values, and fears. This challenge worked like an "empathy gym," forcing him to exercise the different psychological muscles of empathy. He realized that understanding both parents' pain offered him a sense of kinship and strengthened his connections with each of them.
Zaki explains that the first system, often called emotional empathy, is when you vicariously catch another person's feelings—for example, becoming upset yourself when you see someone else suffering.
The second component, cognitive empathy, involves figuring out what someone is feeling and why. This is more about perspective-taking and intellectual understanding of another's situation.
The third system is empathic concern, or compassion. This manifests as genuine care for another person and a desire to improve their well-being when they are in distress.
Empathy’s components may work together but also split apart in people. Zaki notes that distinct brain systems support emotional empathy, cognitive empa ...
The Nature and Components of Empathy
Jamil Zaki and Shankar Vedantam discuss how transformations in how people live, connect, and communicate have impacted empathy. They explore the effects of urbanization, solitary living, technological mediation, and the proliferation of anonymity on the development and experience of empathy.
Modern living increasingly pushes people toward urban environments and solitary arrangements, which shapes the opportunities for empathy to develop. Zaki points out that people today are more urban and solitary than in the past. Although city living means having contact with more individuals than ever before, actual sustained connections are rarer—urbanites are surrounded by people but tend to know very few of them.
This shift is particularly stark among young adults: Vedantam notes that among people aged 18 to 34, ten times as many live alone today compared to 1950. Zaki cautions that it is not easy to experimentally link demographic shifts with empathy trends but highlights this solitary lifestyle as a significant modern shift.
Interactions in cities and modern contexts are more transactional, replacing ritualistic, communal events that once regularly brought people together. Many encounters happen in the mode of exchange—buying coffee or transferring goods—rather than ritual or community. As a result, these repeated impersonal interactions can foster a dehumanized view of others. Zaki offers the example of navigating crowded streets, where individuals become mere obstacles rather than people worthy of understanding or care.
Technology further reshapes empathy by filtering and flattening social cues. Online, most encounters are mediated through text and avatars, lacking the richness of face-to-face communication. Zaki points to research by Juliana Schroeder and her colleagues, showing that people are more likely to dehumanize others when reading their opinions as text, compared to hearing their voices in audio recordings. Hearing a voice, with all its nuance and emotion, triggers greater empathy for the speaker.
The internet, with its pervasive anonymity, brings another layer to the empathy challenge. Users frequently interact with complete strangers whose identities are obscured, and there is no real-time feedback from those who may be hurt by one’s behavior. This lack of direct, embodied connection lowers the emotional stakes and weakens typical social inhibitors, enabling harmful or aggressive actions without social consequences.
Vedantam notes that when the internet first emerged, some imagined it would help unite the globe through empathy and shared values. In reality, Zaki observes, digital life often enables dehumanized views and does not necessarily unite people empathetically.
Zaki elaborates that anonymity acts as a social brake-line cut, liberating individuals from many ...
Modern Life's Impact on Empathy: Anonymity, Technology, Urban Living
Empathy functions as a powerful force for good, enhancing outcomes in medicine, relationships, and society. However, the same empathy that benefits others can impose heavy psychological burdens on those who provide it.
Empathy produces consistently positive outcomes across different social settings. Jamil Zaki highlights that patients of empathic doctors report higher satisfaction and greater adherence to recommendations, which is crucial for preventive care and better health results. In relationships, spouses of empathic partners experience greater happiness and satisfaction in their marriages.
Empathy also contributes to well-being by reducing stress for those who feel it. For example, adolescents with strong emotion-perception skills are better adjusted during stressful transitions, such as starting middle school. Thus, empathy supports both adjustment and psychological health.
Those who provide empathy are not immune to its downsides. Emotion-perception skills benefit adolescents by fostering healthy social functioning, but sustained empathy can become emotionally taxing, especially in caregiving roles. Zaki explains that “emotional labor” erodes caregivers’ well-being through chronic exposure to others’ suffering. While empathy itself reduces stress and improves psychological health in many, professionals exposed to relentless suffering may face burnout and distress as a result of their caring disposition.
The emotional turmoil caused by empathic strain is particularly evident in medical settings. About half of oncologists report heartbreak when delivering bad news to patients; even medical students experience anxiety and physiological stress when simulating tough conversations. Therapists, too, may avoid certain clients—such as depressed individuals late in the workday—out of fear that empathizing with their pain will bleed into their personal lives.
These experiences lead to a difficult psychological conflict for helpers, who are simultaneously driven to provide excellent care but also need to protect their own mental health. This often results in “defensive dehumanization,” where professionals distance themselves emotionally by viewing patients less as people—an occupational hazard that helps them cope but limits genuine human connection.
Defensive strategies extend to everyday life. In a classic study, a donation table manned by a volunteer in a wheelchair caused passersby to physically avoid the table more than when it was unstaffed, demonstrating that people sidestep empathy triggers to evade discomfort or moral oblig ...
Empathy's Paradox: Others' Benefits vs. Empathizers' Costs
Researcher Jamil Zaki and host Shankar Vedantam highlight multiple strategies for intentionally growing and strengthening empathy, drawing from the arts, technology, and social psychology.
Zaki explains that reading fiction is one of the most powerful and accessible tools for increasing empathy. Fiction enables readers to see the world from inside another person’s mind. There is a substantial body of evidence from correlational studies showing that the more fiction people read—both children and adults—the more empathic they become. For example, children who read lots of storybooks become more empathic compared to children who read less fiction; this holds for adults as well.
Experimental research supports that even brief exposure to fictional narratives creates small but reliable improvements in empathic ability. Zaki describes how deeply engaging with a great novel allows readers to temporarily "become" other people, such as a woman living in the 19th century. This process allows readers to immerse themselves in lives and experiences very different from their own. Fiction provides effortless access to perspectives readers might never encounter, such as the life of a Bolivian miner.
Novelistic, vivid accounts focusing on the unique experiences of groups such as Arab Americans or people of different gender identities have been shown to increase empathy towards those groups, even when readers have no direct personal contact with them.
Zaki emphasizes that acting is another highly effective way to develop empathy. Acting requires one to immerse so deeply in a character that the boundary between self and other fades, allowing the performer to almost "walk a mile in their skin." By embodying another person’s consciousness and emotional life, actors temporarily set aside their own experiences.
This is supported by research comparing adolescents in performing arts high schools, specifically those training in acting, to students focusing on visual arts. After a year, those engaged in acting showed greater boosts in empathy than those studying other art forms. While other arts have benefits, acting functions as a "performance enhancing drug for empathy," as actors routinely practice becoming another person and understanding their internal experience.
Zaki’s work also explores the potential of technology, particularly virtual reality (VR), to facilitate empathic understanding with individuals whose lives are very different from our own. In a study, participants experienced a VR simulation that placed them through the step-by-step process of becoming homeless: being evicted, living in one’s car, and ultimately riding a local bus for shelter. The immersive, interactive nature allowed participants to "observe from the inside."
Results showed that this brief simulation significantly increased empathy for people experiencing homelessness, even a month after participation. Those who experienced the VR simulation were less likely to dehumanize homeless individuals and became more supportive of housing policies intended to help those without homes. Th ...
Strategies For Expanding and Training Empathy
Shankar Vedantam and Leslie John explore how sharing our vulnerabilities and personal experiences can be daunting, but serves as the bedrock of trust and meaningful human connection. Through examples and research, they reveal both the profound benefits and risks of self-disclosure in relationships, workplaces, and broader social contexts.
Sharing personal experiences signals an openness that lays the groundwork for trust. When someone chooses to disclose something sensitive—such as a recent health challenge or perplexity in a relationship—they’re implicitly saying, “I trust you to not make a fool out of me.” Leslie John underscores that this act models trust, which powerfully encourages others to reciprocate with their own disclosures, creating a virtuous cycle. Caller #6 describes opening up about her feelings of resistance and tension with a friend, which prompted the friend to share similar feelings. This mutual revelation led to emotional release, new understanding, and lasting connection. Trust, John emphasizes, is the kernel of all social bonds essential for human flourishing.
Self-disclosure has tangible mental and physical benefits. Caller #1 shares that revealing his health crisis to friends not only provided immediate support but may have saved his hearing, amplifying the life-changing impact of opening up. John explains that sharing, especially about struggles or emotions, fosters closeness, reduces loneliness and elevates well-being. Feelings, she notes, are a valuable form of data—hard to fake, impossible to debate, and disarming in their honesty. Revealing vulnerabilities, whether sadness or anxiety over interactions, gives a sense of relief and genuine connection, as both caller #6 and #4 found through compassionate, nonjudgmental discussions. Moreover, in workplace settings, leaders who reveal their own vulnerabilities are seen as more trustworthy and can inspire motivation among employees.
When someone opens up, it naturally invites reciprocal sharing. John describes reciprocity as almost instinctual: the act of being vulnerable not only demonstrates trust but communicates safety, prompting others to do the same. Research backs up the “hurting effect,” in which knowing others have already disclosed sensitive information increases the likelihood that a person will do so, even in anonymous contexts. Caller #1’s friend, whose partner had suffered similar hearing loss and delayed treatment, shared advice and concern, illustrating how revelation of struggle can reduce feelings of isolation. Caller #6 found relief in discovering that both parties’ mirrored emotional hesitancy stemmed from similar internal experiences, establishing a shared reality and connection.
While sharing can invite intimacy, non-reciprocal or dismissive responses can breed disconnection. For example, Caller Abigail shared her son's vulnerable apology with another parent, only to receive a noncommittal response, leading to feelings of distance. Leslie John identifies this as a “reciprocity fail”—when someone’s vulnerability is met with coldness, disinterest, or silence, it can be devastating and drive people to retreat further. Similarly, problem-solving responses alone—like advising a struggling teenager to “just stop”—can invalidate the emotional difficulty and worsen distress, as Caller #3 recounts. The most healing responses focus on validation and recognition of the courage it takes to share.
Text-based or online disclosure shares these risks, often magnified by the absence of empathetic cues and immediate feedback, which can make non-reciprocity or misunderstanding more likely.
Effective self-disclosure isn’t indiscriminate. Disclosing to someone with very different values or priorities risks having your vulnerability undermined or weaponized, as when sharing abuse experiences with unsympathetic people. Listener Allison describes falling into depression after friends in her conservative community dismissed her sexual assault disclosure. John highlights the importance of audience curation—starting privately, then with close confidants, and being thoughtful about context and timing, particularly when sharing accomplishment ...
Vulnerability and Self-Disclosure In Building Trust
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