How Our Brains Learn
In this episode of Hidden Brain, neuroscientist Mary Helen Immordino-Yang and host Shankar Vedantam explore how emotional engagement affects learning. Immordino-Yang explains that while children are naturally curious, traditional educational approaches can lead to disengagement. She introduces the concept of "transcendent thinking"—the practice of connecting immediate circumstances to larger ideas and values—and shares research on how this type of thinking contributes to brain development and personal growth.
Through examples of effective teaching approaches and insights from neuroscience, the conversation examines how students learn best when they can make meaningful connections to the material. Immordino-Yang describes how the brain shifts between outward attention and inward reflection during learning, and discusses how this process helps young people develop a stronger sense of self and better understand their place in the world.
This is a preview of the Shortform summary of the Aug 18, 2025 episode of the Hidden Brain
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1-Page Summary
The Importance of Engagement and Emotion In Learning
Mary Helen Immordino-Yang discusses with Shankar Vedantam how emotional engagement is crucial for effective learning. She observes that while children are naturally curious, traditional educational approaches often lead to disengagement by focusing on basic skills before introducing interesting content. Through her experience, Immordino-Yang emphasizes that engagement depends not just on content but also on the learning environment and personal relevance to students.
The Role of "Transcendent Thinking" in Meaningful Learning
Immordino-Yang introduces the concept of transcendent thinking—looking beyond immediate circumstances to consider larger ideas and values. Through her research with teenagers in Los Angeles, she demonstrates how this type of thinking helps students develop deeper understanding and resilience. She shares how one student connected Malala Yousafzai's story to her own educational aspirations, showing how transcendent thinking can lead to personal growth and improved well-being. Research indicates that this thinking style predicts positive brain development, stronger identity formation, and greater life satisfaction in early adulthood.
Characteristics of Effective, Student-Centered Teaching Approaches
According to Immordino-Yang, effective teaching involves cultivating deep engagement with ideas and presenting diverse perspectives. She describes successful examples, such as an algebra teacher who had students work as financial planners and a history teacher who framed American history as an ongoing argument about democracy. These approaches demonstrate how teaching should guide students on a journey of meaning-making rather than simply delivering content.
The Neuroscience Behind Engagement and Human Development
Immordino-Yang explains how transcendent thinking activates complex patterns in the brain, involving networks related to emotion, attention, and consciousness. During this process, the brain dynamically shifts between outward attention and inward reflection. She notes that when young people engage in transcendent thinking, they build "neural muscle" necessary for mental health. This type of thinking helps individuals develop a stronger sense of self and better understand their place in the world, as demonstrated by increased brain activity in teachers when they evaluate their own students' work compared to unknown students'.
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Counterarguments
- While emotional engagement is important, some learning tasks require rote memorization or practice that may not be emotionally engaging but are still essential for building foundational skills.
- A focus on basic skills before interesting content can be necessary to ensure that students have the necessary tools to engage with more complex material effectively.
- Personal relevance can enhance engagement, but it is also important for students to learn how to engage with material that is not immediately relevant to their personal lives to develop a well-rounded knowledge base.
- Transcendent thinking is valuable, but it may not be suitable for all students at all stages of development, and expecting it too early could lead to frustration or disengagement.
- The emphasis on transcendent thinking and personal growth may overlook the importance of acquiring practical skills that are directly applicable to the workforce or daily life.
- The prediction that transcendent thinking leads to positive brain development and life satisfaction may not account for individual differences or the impact of external factors such as socioeconomic status.
- Student-centered teaching approaches are effective, but they require significant resources and training, which may not be available in all educational settings.
- While teaching should indeed guide students on a journey of meaning-making, there must also be a balance with standardized assessments and curricula that ensure a common baseline of knowledge and skills.
- The neuroscience of engagement and development is complex, and while transcendent thinking may activate certain brain patterns, the relationship between these patterns and long-term outcomes is not fully understood.
- Developing a strong sense of self is important, but education should also prepare students to work collaboratively and understand perspectives other than their own.
Actionables
- You can enhance your learning by journaling your emotional responses to new information. After studying a new topic, take a few minutes to write down how you feel about what you've learned and why it matters to you. This practice can deepen your engagement with the material and help you connect it to your personal experiences.
- Start a "transcendence diary" where you reflect on how daily learnings tie into larger life goals and values. Each evening, write down one thing you learned that day and how it could be part of a bigger picture in your life or society. This habit encourages you to think beyond the immediate and fosters a habit of seeking deeper meaning in everyday knowledge.
- Create a "perspective map" for complex topics you're trying to understand. On a large sheet of paper, draw a central idea and branch out to different perspectives or opinions related to that idea. Research and note down how each perspective contributes to understanding the central idea. This visual and interactive method can help you engage with diverse viewpoints and develop a more nuanced understanding of the subject.
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The Importance of Engagement and Emotion In Learning
Mary Helen Immordino-Yang and Vedantam explore the crucial role of emotional engagement in education and discuss how a lack of it can lead to student disengagement.
Common Disengagement and Boredom in Education and Work
"Ferris Bueller" Scene Shows Disengaged, Apathetic Students
Vedantam brings up the iconic scene from "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" to illustrate the issue of student disengagement. In the scene, students are shown appearing bored and disinterested during a classroom lecture, exemplifying the lack of engagement that often pervades educational settings.
Engagement Involves Being Alert and Eager to Learn
Immordino-Yang reflects on her own teaching experiences, where she observed students who were eagerly running into her classroom, excited about the projects they were working on. She emphasizes that children are naturally curious and engaged, but the traditional educational focus on basic skills before presenting interesting content tends to lose their attention. She suggests that the education system is not aligned with the developmental needs of young people, leading to disengagement.
Engagement Depends On Setting, Not Just Content
Immordino-Yang discusses engagement in the context of her son Ted's experience in second grade. He expressed his dissatisfaction with school, noting it never covered his interests, such as airplanes. Immordino-Yang stresses the importance of developing a disposition to learn that comes from within the students, rather than being adult-driven. The key for young people is to develop a disposition to deeply engage with learning and to understand what it feels like to grasp a subject thoroughly.
To re-engage students, Immordino-Yang proposes starting with powerful projects and big ideas that motivate them to learn, and then working backward to the necessary skills. She further explains that students become more engaged when learning is made personally relevant, as in the case when evolution was discussed in the context of their ancestries and human traits. This personal connection led to rich conversations about race, identity, development, and individual variability.
Vedantam contrasts his own experience of feeling bored in class with feeling engaged while reading in a university library at night, pointing out that a learner's engagement can be influenced by the setting as well as the content.
Immordino-Yang emphasizes that engagement is more than just entertainment; it is a thoughtful, intense, and professional action. It should be led by big ideas and curiosity that inspire students to seek the skills they need due to their interest in the subject matter.
Furthermore, Immordino- ...
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The Importance of Engagement and Emotion In Learning
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Counterarguments
- Emotional engagement is important, but it is not the only factor in learning; cognitive strategies and structured practice are also essential for mastering certain skills and knowledge.
- While personal relevance can enhance engagement, there is also value in learning to engage with material that is not immediately relevant to one's personal life or interests, as it can build discipline and a broader understanding of the world.
- The idea that education should always be entertaining might inadvertently lead to a reduction in students' tolerance for challenging or tedious tasks that are a necessary part of education and professional life.
- The focus on big ideas and curiosity-driven learning may not always be practical or applicable in all educational settings, especially where there are specific curricular goals and standards that need to be met.
- Emotional engagement and making learning personally relevant can be challenging in large, diverse classrooms where students have a wide range of interests and backgrounds.
- The emphasis on the subjective experience of learning might overlook the need for objective assessment and feedback, which are crucial for measuring progress and ensuring that educational standards are met.
- Intellectual risk-taking is valuable, but it must be balanced with the development of foundational skills and knowledge that may require more traditional methods of instruction ...
Actionables
- You can create a personal learning project that revolves around a passion or interest, ensuring emotional engagement. Start by identifying a topic you care deeply about, then design a project that allows you to explore this topic in depth. For example, if you're passionate about environmental conservation, you might start a personal project to learn about local ecosystems by visiting different habitats, documenting your findings, and connecting with experts in the field.
- Transform your learning environment to reflect a setting that inspires curiosity and engagement. Rearrange or decorate a space in your home dedicated to learning, incorporating elements that stimulate your senses and make you feel comfortable and inspired. This could be as simple as adding plants, artwork, or changing the lighting to create a more inviting atmosphere for reading, writing, or other educational activities.
- Introduce intellectual risk-taking into your daily routine by se ...
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The Role of "Transcendent Thinking" in Meaningful Learning
Transcendent thinking, which involves looking beyond the immediate to consider larger ideas, values, and beliefs, plays a critical role in educational development and resilience.
Transcendent Thinking: Moving Beyond the Immediate to Consider Bigger Ideas, Values, and Beliefs
Immordino-Yang describes a study where teenagers from urban Los Angeles discussed crime in their neighborhoods, reflecting not only on the events but also the emotions and broader societal issues involved. She observed that some kids opted for immediate solutions, while others demonstrated transcendent thinking by delving into underlying causes and personal history related to the criminal behaviors.
Student Links Malala Yousafzai's Story to Her Educational Journey and Beliefs
Mary Helen Immordino-Yang mentions using the story of Malala Yousafzai to evoke complex feelings tied to social relationships, values, and beliefs. One teenager, Issella, responded to Malala's story with transcendent thinking, connecting Malala's challenges with her own aspirations to become a scientist. She evolved from sadness to considering broader issues like justice and education, developing a moral perspective on the right to pursue education and choose one’s future.
Transcendent Thinking Boosts Resilience and Well-Being
Transcendent thinking has been identified as protective for young people, contributing to their growth and building neural pathways associated with mental health and good relationships. It aids children in dynamically transitioning between current focuses and larger, more significant ideas.
Transcendent Thinking Linked To Thicker Brain Regions, Counteracting Effects of Community Violence
Witnessing or being aware of crime was correlated with thinning in brain areas related to vigilance and anxiety, which are also seen in soldiers and those with PTSD. Conversely, transcendent thinking about these e ...
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The Role of "Transcendent Thinking" in Meaningful Learning
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Clarifications
- Transcendent thinking has been associated with thickening brain regions responsible for attention and learning, counteracting the effects of community violence. This type of thinking is linked to neural growth in areas related to mental resilience and well-being. In contrast, exposure to crime without transcendent thinking may lead to thinning in brain regions associated with vigilance and anxiety. Studies suggest that engaging in transcendent thinking can provide resilience against adversity by promoting brain development in crucial cognitive areas.
- The longitudinal study tracking teenagers for five years aimed to observe how transcendent thinking in adolescence influenced brain development, identity formation, and life satisfaction in early adulthood. Researchers followed a group of teenagers over an extended period to analyze the relationship between early transcendent thinking, brain growth, personal values development, and eventual life contentment. This study provided insights into the long-term effects of transcendent thinking on various aspects of individuals' lives as they transition from adolescence to earl ...
Counterarguments
- While transcendent thinking is beneficial, it may not be easily accessible or natural for all students, especially those in high-stress environments.
- The link between transcendent thinking and thicker brain regions may be correlational rather than causal; other factors could contribute to brain development.
- Focusing on larger ideas and values might sometimes detract from addressing immediate practical needs or solutions.
- The study's findings may not be generalizable across different cultures or socioeconomic backgrounds.
- The predictive power of transcendent thinking on future identity and life satisfaction might be overestimated if not considering the multitude of variables that influence these outcomes.
- The emphasis on transcendent thinking could potentially undervalue other types of thinking or problem-solving approaches that are also important for learning and development.
- The long-term ...
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Characteristics of Effective, Student-Centered Teaching Approaches
In discussing the essentials of student-centered teaching approaches, Mary Helen Immordino-Yang highlights the importance of deep engagement, diverse perspectives, and guiding students on a journey of meaning-making rather than just delivering content.
Effective Teachers Cultivate Deep Engagement With Ideas
Immordino-Yang emphasizes that effective teaching involves engaging students deeply, considering their full development, and cultivating their capacities to engage with expertise, evidence, and analytical thinking. She illustrates this with a narrative of her own teaching, which filled the course with projects and gave students freedom to pursue their interests. This approach allowed students to take ownership of their learning and apply scientific concepts outside the classroom, like a girl who brought snails from the beach to study them.
Teacher Designs Algebra Curriculum With Students as Financial Planners
An instance of cultivating deep engagement was seen in an algebra II class where a teacher had students work as financial planners for local families. This hands-on project enabled students to see the relevance of exponential functions by applying their algebra skills to real-world financial scenarios, including the cost of owning a home and saving for education.
Effective Teachers Present Diverse Perspectives and Real-World Issues
An effective approach to teaching is to expose students to diverse perspectives and real-world issues. A 10th-grade history teacher in New York framed an American history class around the idea of "Democracy is an Argument," examining the tension between individual needs and group needs throughout American history. This perspective encourages students to look deeper into historical events and understand their significance and relevance in today's world.
Effective Teaching Guides Students on a "Journey" of Meaning-Making, Not Just Content Delivery
Effective teaching is more than just relaying information; it's about guiding students on a journey of meaning-making. Immordino-Yang emphasizes the importance of engaging students with intriguing ideas and examples, which supports their desire to analyze and learn deeply. By inverting the traditional teaching approach, teachers can encourage students to make their own meanings from evidence, stories, and data.
Immordino-Yang views curriculum as a journey ...
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Characteristics of Effective, Student-Centered Teaching Approaches
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Counterarguments
- While deep engagement is important, some students may thrive under more structured or traditional approaches that provide clear expectations and less open-ended tasks.
- Project-based learning can be beneficial, but it may not always cover the breadth of content required in standardized curricula, potentially leaving gaps in student knowledge.
- Real-world applications are valuable, but they can sometimes oversimplify complex academic concepts that require a more abstract understanding.
- Diverse perspectives are crucial, yet there must be a balance to ensure that core knowledge is not overshadowed by an overemphasis on contemporary issues.
- A journey of meaning-making is important, but there should also be a focus on the acquisition of foundational knowledge and skills that students need for advanced learning.
- Student-led learning and interpretation are beneficial, but educators must also ensure that students reach accurate understandi ...
Actionables
- You can deepen your analytical thinking by starting a journal where you analyze daily experiences. Write down events or conversations and explore them from multiple angles, questioning why things happened the way they did and what alternative outcomes could have been possible. This practice mirrors the analytical processes in a classroom and can be applied to personal decision-making.
- Create a personal project that requires you to learn a new skill or concept, such as building a piece of furniture or starting a garden. Document your learning process, set goals, and reflect on your progress to take ownership of your learning journey. This mirrors the educational approach of project-based learning and helps you understand the value of self-directed education.
- Volunteer for a co ...
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The Neuroscience Behind Engagement and Human Development
The hosts delve into how the brain's emotion, attention, and consciousness networks engage during transcendent thinking and how this form of thinking can be instrumental in human development and mental health.
Brain's Emotion, Attention, Consciousness Networks Dynamically Engage During Transcendent Thinking
Transcendent Thinking Involves Activation and Deactivation in Key Brain Networks
In the human brain, transcendent thinking involves moving beyond the immediate context to consider greater ideas, values, and beliefs. This type of thinking reflects deep engagement and is marked by a dynamic trade-off between outward attention and inward reflection driven by emotion. As individuals focus on big ideas, they not only activate networks involved in emotion, attention to the external environment, and learning but also deactivate these networks to focus internally on autobiographical memory and concepts that transcend the immediate experience.
Mary Helen Immordino-Yang explains that when younger individuals engage in transcendent thinking, they are "building the neural muscle" necessary for mental health as they shift between different ways of making meaning. Immordino-Yang uses the metaphor of understanding not just the individual trees but also the entire forest, including the hidden forces behind what is immediately visible. This metaphor encapsulates the essence of transcendent thinking, which involves understanding the bigger picture and the forces driving observable phenomena.
During experiments that track brain and body activity, scientists notice that emotional engagement with narratives and stories is closely tied to personal meaning-making. When subjects like Issella paused after reacting to a story, such as Malala Yousafzai's, they likely shifted into a mode of engagement that leveraged brain systems involved in consciousness, autobiographical memory, storytelling, beliefs, and values. These observed patterns in neural and bodily responses suggest a significant level of engagement in this type of higher-level thinking.
Transcendent Thinking Links to Self-Development and World Placement
Neuroscience: Transcendent Thinking Builds "Neural Muscle" for Mental Health
Transcendent thinking, which requires both outward attention and inner reflection, is closely linked to a person’s self-development and their understanding of their place in the world. As Vedantam discusses, great teachers do more than impart knowledge; they also support students' emotional and developmental growth, seeing where students are not just academically but also emotionally and as human beings.
This approach to ...
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The Neuroscience Behind Engagement and Human Development
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Clarifications
- During transcendent thinking, the brain's emotion, attention, and consciousness networks interact dynamically. Emotion plays a role in guiding attention and reflection during this type of deep thinking. The brain activates and deactivates specific networks to focus on big ideas and internal reflection, contributing to a holistic understanding of complex concepts. This process involves a trade-off between outward attention to the external environment and inward reflection on personal experiences and beliefs.
- Transcendent thinking involves the activation and deactivation of specific brain networks. When engaging in transcendent thinking, individuals activate networks related to emotion, attention, and learning while also deactivating these networks to focus inwardly on memory and abstract concepts. This dynamic process allows individuals to move beyond immediate experiences and consider larger ideas and values. By toggling between external awareness and internal reflection, transcendent thinking facilitates a deeper understanding of complex concepts and personal meaning-making.
- Transcendent thinking involves moving beyond immediate concerns to contemplate broader ideas and values, fostering deep engagement. This type of thinking requires a balance between focusing outwardly on the external world and reflecting inwardly on personal experiences and concepts that transcend the present moment. Through transcendent thinking, individuals can develop a stronger sense of self and a deeper understanding of the ...
Counterarguments
- The concept of "neural muscle" is metaphorical and may oversimplify the complex processes of brain plasticity and mental health.
- The link between transcendent thinking and mental health is correlational, not necessarily causal; other factors may contribute to mental health.
- Emotional engagement with narratives may not always lead to personal meaning-making; individual differences in interpretation and context can affect this process.
- Understanding the bigger picture is important, but focusing too much on transcendent thinking might lead to overlooking important details in the immediate context.
- The role of teachers in supporting emotional and developmental growth is crucial, but it may not be their sole responsibility; family and community also play significant roles.
- The increased brain activity in teachers when grading their own students' work could have alternative explanations, such as familiarity with the students' handwriting or style, rather than a deeper emotional connection.
- The idea of relevance with a big "R" is subjecti ...
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