In this episode of Good Inside, Dr. Becky Kennedy and author Sunita Sah challenge traditional views of defiance, exploring how it can function as a valuable life skill rather than a behavioral problem. They examine how societal messages often equate "being good" with compliance, leading many people to ignore their own needs and values to please others, from childhood into their professional lives.
The conversation delves into practical aspects of developing healthy defiance, including recognizing internal signals of discomfort and learning to express boundaries effectively. Kennedy and Sah outline how these skills help children and adults alike develop trust in their own judgment, even when facing external pressure to comply, and discuss specific techniques for saying "no" while maintaining relationships.

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In their discussion, Becky Kennedy and Sunita Sah explore how defiance, traditionally viewed as problematic behavior, can be reframed as a valuable skill essential for authentic living. Sah, author of "Defy, The Power of No in a World That Demands Yes," explains that while society often views defiance as aggressive or disruptive, it's actually a learnable skill that aligns with personal values.
Kennedy and Sah discuss how the tendency toward compliance often stems from childhood messages that equate "being good" with obedience. Sah notes that in professional environments, this manifests as workers staying silent even when they notice mistakes, primarily due to fear of negative judgment. This pattern of compliance, they explain, can lead adults to consistently ignore their own needs and values in favor of pleasing others.
The development of defiance involves several key stages, according to Sah and Kennedy. It begins with recognizing internal signals of discomfort or unease - what many call a "gut reaction." The next crucial step is learning to express this discomfort through techniques like asking clarifying questions or directly stating one's unease. The final stages involve actually saying "no" and following through with that decision. Kennedy emphasizes that this skill is particularly important for children to develop, as it helps them learn to trust their own judgment and maintain healthy boundaries, even when faced with external pressures to comply.
1-Page Summary
Becky Kennedy and Sunita Sah engage in discussions reevaluating defiance, advocating for a shift in how society perceives it from a negative trait to a valuable skill aligned with authentic living and self-expression.
Becky Kennedy navigates the familiar parental challenge of disobedient children and suggests a shift in thinking about defiance—often seen as a hassle. In this conversation, Sunita Sah, author of "Defy, The Power of No in a World That Demands Yes," provides a fresh understanding of defiance, transforming it from an inconvenience to something more profound.
Sunita Sah talks about societal views of defiance as loud, bold, and aggressive, suggesting instead that it is a learnable skill that aligns with personal values. She reflects on societal messages from childhood that equate being good with being obedient and compliant, while defiance is labeled as bad behavior. This view is cemented by her findings that in the U.S. and UK, people comply with requests at "shockingly high rates," hinting that society prizes compliance.
Kennedy discusses how non-compliant children are often tagged as "defiant problem kids," revealing the negative connotation of defiance. Yet, she notes that the qualities desired in adulthood often require a degree of defiance. Sah stresses that speaking up is vital, and without learning this skill, it becomes a ...
Reframing Defiance and Its Societal Perceptions
Sunita Sah and Becky Kennedy explore the psychological tendency toward obedience and how compliance, often due to fear or early teachings, can overpower personal feelings of discomfort or internal disagreements.
Sah explains that long-established practices of obedience have strengthened neural pathways, leading to a habit of compliance. In professional environments like healthcare, this manifests as workers refraining from speaking up even when a mistake is observed, due to fear of being negatively judged. Under pressure, people may comply out of a lack of training in how to defy, which leads to feelings of discomfort when considering opposition to requests.
This can lead individuals to ignore internal signals of discomfort or disagreement.
The ingrained teaching to obey authority figures from childhood often persists into adulthood, according to Sah and Kennedy. They discuss how parenting for compliance remains with individuals as they grow older. Kennedy remembers a childhood where "being good" meant complying with parents and authority figures, even when it clashed with personal values or judgments.
There is a tension in parenting between the convenience of a child's compliance and the understanding that defiance may be a valuable skill set worth developing. "Being good" is often equated with pleasing others and politeness, creating a social expectation that can suppress ...
Patterns of Compliance Over Defiance
Developing the skill of defiance is a multi-stage process that involves recognizing internal discomfort, expressing dissent, and asserting one's decisions.
Defiance often begins with recognizing a tension or conflict with what is being asked. Sunita Sah mentions the importance of recognizing internal signals of unease as the first stage of defiance. These signals may vary, from feelings in the stomach, to experiencing dry mouth, or getting a headache. The acknowledgement might be a gut feeling or a butterfly feeling, taking a moment to consider what it's about. Kennedy describes the necessity for children to practice recognizing a feeling of tension, suggesting that tuning into our gut reaction is the beginning of developing defiance. She also illustrates a scenario where a young adult woman at a bar decides whether to go home with a stranger, emphasizing the importance of tuning into and honoring her gut reaction.
Tuning into one's initial gut reaction is crucial. Sah implies that defiance begins with recognizing your own discomfort with a situation, suggesting that listening to one's gut reaction is the first step. Kennedy described her direct communication when ordering a coffee, specifying that she wanted it "pretty dark." When the coffee came out lighter than she asked for, she noticed her dissatisfaction, indicating an awareness of her initial reaction to the situation.
Vocalizing that you cannot comply is a crucial step in the process of defiance. Sah suggests using scripts and responses such as "What do you mean by that?" to express discomfort or to challenge statements that one feels uneasy about. Kennedy points out that it's important to speak up when feeling uncertain or seeking clarity, as doing so can interrupt the pattern of automatically complying with demands. Saying something like "I'm not comfortable with this" or asking clarifying questions can change the environment and indicate that you are not immediately complying.
The conversation around saying "no" implies that expressing discomfort or dissent, such as in situations where a person's boss makes them uncomfortable, is essential for breaking out of the pattern of just agreeing. After receiving her coffee that was not to her liking, Kennedy went back and requested a new one, exemplifying her dissent from the initial outcome and her pursuit to correct it. Sah’s mother defied the norm by confronting some boys and demanding clarity on their racial taunt, rejecting automatic compliance.
Stage four represe ...
Stages and Process Of Developing Defiance Skill
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