In this episode of All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg, Bill Gurley examines why major catastrophes typically trigger thorough investigations while Covid-19—despite causing orders of magnitude more deaths and economic damage—has not received comparable scrutiny. Gurley draws parallels between historical disaster investigations like Challenger and Fukushima, highlighting how independent investigators and journalists uncovered root causes despite institutional resistance from "blockers" who obscured accountability.
Gurley argues that the pandemic's origins remain unexamined due to a coordinated campaign by key virologists who suppressed inquiry into laboratory origins. He discusses the role of gain-of-function research, the suppressed Diffuse Proposal linking U.S. researchers to the Wuhan Institute of Virology, and evidence contradicting the wet market theory. The episode raises questions about institutional failures that prevented the standard investigative mechanisms from functioning when society needed them most.

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Major disasters like Surfside, the Boeing 737 Max crashes, Hurricane Katrina, Fukushima, and the Challenger shuttle disaster have established paradigms for accountability through robust investigations. These investigative teams follow methodologies like CAPA—Corrective and Preventive Action—which emphasizes detection, investigation, root cause confirmation, corrective action, and prevention measures. CAPA is legally mandated in pharmaceutical, medical device, and aerospace industries.
Journalism has played a crucial role in uncovering truths after disasters. The Miami Herald's investigation of the Surfside collapse, led by Executive Editor Monica Richardson with a team of 37, earned a Pulitzer Prize. Similarly, Dominique Gates at the Seattle Times covered the 737 Max disaster, and reporters Mark Sluffstein and John McQuade warned of Katrina's preventable levee failures, earning two Pulitzers. These investigations often work alongside or against official commissions, ultimately reaching consensus on root causes.
Blockers are entities or agencies implicated in disasters who resist revealing their failures. For Katrina, the US Army Corps of Engineers shifted blame while the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) received financial incentives to deflect accountability. At Fukushima, Tepco and NISA exemplified regulatory capture, where oversight became entwined with industry interests. After the 737 Max crashes, Boeing blamed pilot training while the FAA refused document requests, prompting Senator Ted Cruz to charge that the FAA had been "captured" by Boeing.
Bill Gurley notes that blockers tend to "circle the wagons" under scrutiny—a predictable institutional self-protection rather than malice. Successful investigators maneuver around these obstacles, keeping focus on root causes and prevention rather than attacking blockers directly.
Independent actors have exhibited exceptional commitment to truth when confronted with institutional pressure. Dr. Kiyoshi Kurokawa led Japan's first private, parliament-sanctioned investigation after Fukushima, assembling a team with no ties to Tepco or NISA. He published the report in English first to ensure global transparency, concluding the disaster was "manmade and could have and should have been prevented."
Similarly, Nobel laureate Richard Feynman brought fierce independence to the Challenger investigation. His famous live TV demonstration revealed the O-ring failure, and he insisted his unredacted notes be included as an appendix to the final report, underscoring transparency over diplomatic smoothing.
Bill Gurley highlights that Covid-19 has caused at least 15 million deaths, disrupted billions of children's education, and resulted in $45 trillion in global economic damage. He shares how his own children lost three crucial years to the pandemic's disruptions. Comparing Covid-19 with five major disasters yields about 5,000 deaths and $349 billion in damages from those events—Covid's toll is 3,000 times that. Even combining all plane accidents, hurricanes, nuclear accidents, building collapses, and space accidents reaches only about one-third the loss inflicted by Covid-19.
Given this unparalleled devastation, Gurley argues society should demand investigations at least as thorough as those conducted after far smaller disasters. Instead, he observes, just the opposite has happened.
Despite the pandemic's overwhelming impact, Gurley notes the lack of serious, coordinated investigations into its origins. No major paper assembled a large investigative task force for Covid-19, unlike previous disasters. There have been no bipartisan congressional committees with the focus seen after Katrina, nor any authoritative independent commission like those involving Feynman or Kurokawa. None of the primary U.S. research funding agencies—including NIST, NSF, or NIH—launched major scientific investigations into the pandemic's origins, and there has been no coordinated legal action from victims' families.
Gurley cites the role of misinformation campaigns from certain experts within virology, where raising questions about origins was stigmatized and made into a social faux pas. Six years after the pandemic began, root causes remain undefined, raising troubling questions about society's ability to safeguard against the next disaster.
Gurley identifies five virologists—Francis Collins, Anthony Fauci, Peter Daszak, Jeremy Farrar, and Ralph Baric—who acted as blockers to open inquiry rather than objective experts. Each was a prior advocate of gain-of-function research, which involves deliberately increasing viral transmissibility or pathogenicity. Gurley notes that Fauci himself argued in a 2011 Washington Post editorial that such research's benefits outweighed risks.
Gurley argues that behavioral psychology shows individuals deeply invested in prior decisions cannot be impartial judges of outcomes. Despite their direct stake in defending research practices and their reputations, these five remained at the center of pandemic origin discussions.
Gurley contends these blockers actively orchestrated a campaign to dismiss and suppress inquiry into a laboratory origin. He singles out the "Proximal Origins" paper, written within a week, as hastily produced work intended to shape consensus rather than investigate. A similar Lancet paper echoed this messaging. Both became extensively cited, creating self-reinforcing references that shut down reconsideration and presented coordinated messaging as "settled science."
The blockers also conflated scientific questions with partisan politics, linking lab leak theories to Trump and polarizing opinions along party lines. Jason Calacanis highlights that anyone questioning the official narrative faced being labeled a conspiracy theorist. Gurley calls this "pure evil," arguing it undermined scientific inquiry where no line of questioning should be off limits.
Rather than encouraging investigation, these blockers discouraged and ridiculed those seeking answers. Gurley asserts "they stopped searching but they never started searching," taking people "off the scent" when inquiry should have been most urgent.
The Diffuse Proposal, led by Peter Daszak, connects U.S. researchers at Duke University and UNC with virologists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. The proposal outlines plans to insert a furin cleavage site into a bat coronavirus—a modification that increases viral transmission. This is clear gain-of-function research linking U.S. funding with Chinese collaborators.
Gurley notes that only 22 percent of scientists who believed in animal spillover had heard of the proposal, while 78 percent had not. He emphasizes that no major journals ever covered the Diffuse Proposal, resulting in the scientific community largely overlooking this critical evidence.
Had the Diffuse Proposal been exposed in January 2020, Gurley argues the conversation would have shifted dramatically. He references an AI analysis using CAPA principles, which recommended "direct investigation," "elite, highly critical analysis," and treating the proposal as a "major investigative priority." The suppression of this evidence allowed alternative narratives to flourish while sidelining a direct investigative path.
Follow-up investigations at Duke and UNC are logical next steps, but searchers have encountered resistance. Gurley notes that "The University of North Carolina and the state of North Carolina are blockers. They're refusing to deliver the documents."
Gurley cites documents revealing that Dr. Fauci and other key figures knew of multiple Covid cases predating the widely publicized wet market event, directly undermining the theory that the Huanan wet market was the singular source. China has tested 80,000 animals searching for evidence of animal-to-human transmission, yet no such transmission has been documented, further weakening the wet market hypothesis and contradicting blockers' theories about Covid's origins.
1-Page Summary
Major disasters such as Surfside, the Boeing 737 Max crashes, Hurricane Katrina, Fukushima, and the Challenger shuttle disaster have established paradigms for accountability and learning through robust investigations.
Investigative teams and official commissions are guided by methodologies like CAPA—Corrective and Preventive Action—which emphasizes a rigorous five-step process: detection of the problem, thorough investigation, confirmation of the root cause, implementing corrective action, and instituting prevention measures. CAPA is legally mandated in the pharmaceutical, medical device, and aerospace industries, reinforcing its value as the post-catastrophe gold standard. This process aims not just to correct failure but to prevent recurrence, insisting on a focus on root causes rather than superficial explanations.
Journalism plays a crucial role in uncovering truths after disasters. The Miami Herald’s investigation of the Surfside collapse stands out, even as the paper was emerging from bankruptcy. Executive Editor Monica Richardson led the team of 37, including beat reporter Alan Leibowitz and investigative lead Sarah Blaske. Collaborating with experts such as Professor Dawn Lehman from the University of Washington, the Herald's team developed 3D models and followed the story with relentless detail, earning a Pulitzer Prize and cementing a commitment to ongoing investigation and prevention.
Similarly, Dominique Gates at the Seattle Times dedicated 16 years covering Boeing and played a pivotal role in Pulitzer-winning coverage of the 737 Max disaster. Peter Robeson added depth with his book "Flying Blind." Investigative journalism by the New York Times and Martin Fackler, particularly on disasters like Fukushima, established a record of deep accountability; Fackler was a Pulitzer finalist, and on Fukushima, Mr. Yorimitsu's expanded investigative team earned two awards. Before Katrina, reporters Mark Sluffstein and John McQuade foresaw levee failures, earning two Pulitzers for journalism that warned of preventable catastrophe. In Japan, protests and citizen claims after Fukushima illustrated press power and public engagement.
Within official investigations, the breadth varied. For Katrina, the House, Senate, and National Science Foundation each commissioned separate inquiry teams, and Louisiana hired an LSU-based team. Often, these teams occasionally obstructed or aided one another but ultimately reached a consensus on man-made elements as the root cause of disaster.
Blockers are often those entities or agencies implicated in disasters—organizations reluctant to reveal their failures and sometimes abetted by regulatory bodies that prioritize institutional protection over truth. For Hurricane Katrina, the US Army Corps of Engineers, responsible for the levees, shifted blame to acts of God, while internal investigations and collaborations with groups such as the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) ultimately became vehicles for deflecting accountability. ASCE received financial incentives and became encapsulated within the Corps’ efforts, as documented in a 42-page report by Raymond Seed on systematic blocking. The University of North Carolina and the state of North Carolina similarly refused document requests regarding a separate disaster, demonstrating regional examples of institutional blocker behavior.
At Fukushima, Tepco (plant operator) and NISA (regulator) acted as blockers. Tepco and NISA’s relationship exemplified regulatory capture, where oversight became lax and entwined with industry interests, prioritizing self-protection over public safety. Following the disaster, Japanese citizens responded with protests and formal claims, seeking accountability impeded by this institutional coziness.
The aviation sector after the 737 Max crashes highlighted blocking in both private industry and government. Boeing initially blamed pilot training, and the FAA refused document requests from a Senate panel. There was widespread concern that the FAA had been “captured,” operating more as an ally of Boeing than an independent regulator, as Senator Ted Cruz publicly charged.
Blockers tend to “circle the wagons” under scrutiny, a reaction described as institutional self-protection with a keen sense for minimizing exposure rather than being inherently malicious. Investigators must skillfully maneuver around such obstacles—Bill Gurley notes that attacking blockers directly is less productive than persistently seeking root causes and solutions, keeping the focus on prevention instead of punishment or partisanship.
Independent actors within major investigations have exhibited exceptional commitment to truth when confronted with institutional pressure to conceal or soften findings. After the Fukushima disaster, Dr. Kiyoshi Kurokaw ...
Investigating Major Catastrophes: Searchers, Blockers, and Independent Heroes In Uncovering Root Causes
Bill Gurley highlights that Covid-19 has caused at least 15 million deaths, upended every life on the planet, disrupted the education of billions of children, and resulted in $45 trillion in global economic damage. Gurley shares a personal perspective, recounting how his own children in high school and college lost three crucial years of their lives to the pandemic's disruptions. He stresses the enormous scale of loss and social havoc, especially for the world’s youth.
To put the magnitude in perspective, Gurley compares Covid-19 with five major disasters: the Surfside building collapse, the crashes of Boeing 737 Max jets, Hurricane Katrina, the Fukushima nuclear disaster, and the Challenger space shuttle accident. Adding together all the deaths and the economic costs from these tragedies yields about 5,000 deaths and $349 billion—Covid’s toll is 3,000 times that. Gurley goes further, noting that even the sum totals from all plane accidents, hurricanes, nuclear accidents, building collapses, and space accidents only reach about one-third the loss inflicted by Covid-19.
Given this unparalleled devastation, Gurley argues that society should be demanding a serious reckoning—if extraordinary investigative resources and efforts were mobilized after far smaller disasters, then the pandemic’s scale warrants investigations that are at least as thorough, if not more so. Instead, he observes, just the opposite has happened.
Despite the pandemic’s overwhelming impact, Gurley draws attention to the lack of serious, coordinated investigations into its origins and impacts. Unlike previous catastrophes for which newsrooms assigned dozens of reporters for lengthy Pulitzer Prize-winning investigations—led by determined journalists—no major paper assembled a large investigative task force for Covid-19. Gurley sees this as a major failure of the press, calling for newsrooms to follow the examples of dogged reporters in previous disasters, and bemoaning the lack of any journalist backed by their newsroom to pursue the root causes.
He points out that there have been no bipartisan congressional committees with the focus and authority seen after Hurricane Katrina or the 737 Max crashes. Nor has any authoritative, standalone independent commission—equipped to compel testimony and documents, such as those involving Feynman or Cura Caua—been formed to address Covid-19. This stands in contrast to the vigorous congressional and expert-led inquiries in response to lesser tragedies.
Further, none of the primary U.S. research funding agencies—including the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), National Science Foundation (NSF), or National Institutes of Health (NIH)—have launched major scientific investigations into the pandemic’s origins or failures. In cases involving building collapses or nuclear accidents, t ...
Covid-19: Why the Devastating Event Lacks Serious Independent Investigation
Bill Gurley identifies five virologists—Francis Collins, Anthony Fauci, Peter Daszak, Jeremy Farrar, and Ralph Baric—who, rather than serving as objective experts in the search for Covid-19’s origins, acted as blockers to open inquiry. Each was a prior advocate of gain-of-function research, which involves deliberately increasing the transmissibility or pathogenicity of viruses in order to study them. Gurley notes that these experts had publicly promoted such research, with Fauci himself arguing in a 2011 Washington Post editorial that its benefits outweighed the risks, even after the Obama administration had placed restrictions on the practice.
Gurley argues that, according to behavioral psychology, individuals deeply invested in a prior decision are not impartial judges of the outcomes of that decision. He says it is impossible for someone to remain neutral when their own actions may have contributed to a global catastrophe, such as a pandemic responsible for millions of deaths. Gurley points out that, in other domains with clear conflicts of interest, people displaying such bias would be disqualified from positions of investigatory authority, yet in the Covid origins discussion, the same individuals continued to be relied upon as central experts.
Despite their direct stake in both the research practices under scrutiny and the defense of their reputations and careers, these five individuals remained at the center of pandemic origin discussions. Their biases, unaddressed and unmitigated, could have—and likely did—result in the early dismissal of the laboratory origin hypothesis, yet they were consistently treated as credible authorities.
Gurley contends that these blockers actively orchestrated a misinformation campaign to dismiss, ridicule, and suppress legitimate inquiry into whether a laboratory incident could have started the pandemic.
Gurley singles out the "Proximal Origins" paper, written within a week and widely publicized, as an example of hastily produced work intended not to investigate but to shape public consensus. A similar paper published in The Lancet echoed this messaging. Both papers were extensively cited, creating self-reinforcing references that shut down reconsideration. Wikipedia articles and popular discourse repeatedly referenced these same sources, effectively closing the loop on public debate and presenting as “settled science” what was actually coordinated messaging from people with conflicts of interest.
These highly cited papers became the foundation for further discussion, making it almost impossible to revisit or question their conclusions. The campaign created the appearance of broad scientific agreement, discouraging attempts to reopen the inquiry.
Additionally, Gurley notes that the blockers conflated scientific questions with partisan politics. By labeling lab leak inquiries as “conspiracy theories” closely tied to Donald Trump, they managed to polarize opinions along party lines. Polling showed that Democrats and Republicans developed divergent beliefs about the pandemic’s origin, despite the irrelevance of political affiliation to scientific investigation. This manufactu ...
Covid Origins Investigation Obstructed: Experts Misinformation Campaign Suppressed Lab Leak Theory, Hindered Scientific Inquiry
The Diffuse Proposal, put forth by EcoHealth Alliance and led by Peter Daszak, connects U.S. researchers at Duke University, the University of North Carolina (UNC), and virologists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. The proposal outlines research plans to insert a furin cleavage site into a bat coronavirus, a modification known to increase viral transmission. This is a clear example of gain-of-function research linking U.S. funding and expertise with Chinese collaborators for experiments that could potentially enhance the spread of bat coronaviruses.
Awareness of the Diffuse Proposal among experts remains extremely limited. Bill Gurley notes that when surveyed, only 22 percent of scientists who believed in animal spillover had heard of the proposal, while 78 percent had not. Gurley emphasizes, "This is nuts. Look, it's like three people. OK, no major journals ever covered the diffuse proposal." The lack of coverage by major journals has resulted in the scientific community largely overlooking this critical evidence in discussions about Covid’s origins.
Despite its significance, no major journals have ever covered or amplified the implications of the Diffuse Proposal. This omission contributed to its obscurity within the broader scientific debate over the origins of Covid-19.
Had the Diffuse Proposal been exposed in January 2020, Bill Gurley argues the conversation around Covid origins would have shifted dramatically. He references an AI analysis using the CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) scientific principles, which, when presented with the Diffuse Proposal, recommended “direct investigation,” “elite, highly critical analysis,” and treating the proposal as a “major investigative priority.” The document is categorized as “primary document evidence, highest tier evidence class.” The suppression of this evidence in early 2020 allowed alternative and potentially less substantiated narratives to flourish while sidelining a direct investigative path.
According to Gurley and AI-derived recommendations, follow-up investigations and document searches at Duke University and UNC are logical next steps for uncovering further evidence relevant to Co ...
Key Evidence: The Diffuse Proposal & Gain-Of-function Research Connections Under Investigation
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